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don't the rookies use a detuned 390cc engine? 38hp or something like that instead of the 44hp the 4000€ street model makes`?


 


the question is : why do  we need different manufacturers(or rather different concepts)in the smaller classes? it will inevitably lead to disparity in machinery and the smaller classes aren't real protoype world championships anyway , so why not (for once!!!) concentrate on  rider talent?


 


kawa sell .... loads of the 250 because it is not a race replica.


don't get me wrong i'd love to buy a small single cylinder sportsbike (very much looking forward to the new 390 ktm) but wtf difference does it make for racing if the road bike is a completely different story than the race bike altogether.
 
cliché guevara
3595731377501625

maybe, just maybe, its time we admit that the glory 2 stroke days are over and that technical development in the smaller classes is both redundant and just undoable in the immediate and mid term future.

 

why not introduce spec bikes in moto2/3?
Click to expand...


For once, I wasn't ranting on about 2Strokes... The class is supposed to be a proving ground for up and comers, for it to be so blatantly two tiered doesn't help. I fully (?) support the idea of a spec class, after all Moto2 is just that. However, the conflict is that 9 don't wish to see KTM, Etc being penalised for their success
 
I would like to see the smaller classes bein taken seriously, also from a technical point of view, and also by (a number of) the manufacturers.
 
cliché guevara
3595831377503684

don't the rookies use a detuned 390cc engine? 38hp or something like that instead of the 44hp the 4000 street model makes`?

 

the question is : why do  we need different manufacturers(or rather different concepts)in the smaller classes? it will inevitably lead to disparity in machinery and the smaller classes aren't real protoype world championships anyway , so why not (for once!!!) concentrate on  rider talent?

 

kawa sell .... loads of the 250 because it is not a race replica.

don't get me wrong i'd love to buy a small single cylinder sportsbike (very much looking forward to the new 390 ktm) but wtf difference does it make for racing if the road bike is a completely different story than the race bike altogether.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean about Moto3 not being proto? Ok many are 'production racers' per the old RS/TZs, but roadbikes they ain't. Personally I couldn't care about links with road offerings...


Per my previous post, I'm of two minds as to spec v allowing some freedom for small concerns to make a mark
 
Dr No
3595871377505665

Not sure what you mean about Moto3 not being proto? Ok many are 'production racers' per the old RS/TZs, but roadbikes they ain't. Personally I couldn't care about links with road offerings...


Per my previous post, I'm of two minds as to spec v allowing some freedom for small concerns to make a mark
Click to expand...


 


I think you should take the rookies cup into consideration. they are running spec bikes there, and it really serves the purpose of letting young guns shine. Moto3, however, is a world championship, and as such it should be clearly above it. so technically, I am quite happy with the differentiation, I just wish that more manufacturers would be involved, or at least that Honda would increase their commitment (but let's wait for next year and rule changes). and I thought that producing and marketing race replicas would be a nice way to connect to young viewers and buyers, plus I would find 150kg 40hp sportbikes quite interesting..
 
sewarion
3595221377464531

well, watching the race today Sissis was quite obviously giving Salom (et al.) not too much of a hard time. a little bit unfortunate for my secret fav Rins for ending up 4th instead of 1st or 2nd (focused too much on passing Vinales I think and forgot about A. Marquez behind him). kudos for Folger for holding his nerve till the last lap, as I believe he showed the potential of the Kalex KTM today: on a good day running with the top group, but not strong enough to actively challenge the KTM-KTM riders. made the best out of it and played it smart.


 


you know you're watching a good race when the track announcer never gets the positions right cause they change so often while he is telling the audience about it :)
Click to expand...


 


I don't think Sissis not giving Salom a hard time was anything to do with team orders. (Not that you specifically said that). He just had a very poor race. He finished ahead of Zulfahmi though.


 


Anyone want to make comments about whether there are team orders in the Estrella Galicia team? :D
 
sewarion
3595891377506263

 

I think you should take the rookies cup into consideration. they are running spec bikes there, and it really serves the purpose of letting young guns shine. Moto3, however, is a world championship, and as such it should be clearly above it. so technically, I am quite happy with the differentiation, I just wish that more manufacturers would be involved, or at least that Honda would increase their commitment (but let's wait for next year and rule changes). and I thought that producing and marketing race replicas would be a nice way to connect to young viewers and buyers, plus I would find 150kg 40hp sportbikes quite interesting..
Click to expand...


My natural instinct shares your desire to see technical competition in Moto3. I was viewing it through the prism of the discussions of machine disparity masking talent (usually found in the MotoGP threads). Good point on the Rookie Cup.


As for 40bhp sportsbikes, knock 50kg off that weight and...maybe.
 
Dr No
3595921377508285




As for 40bhp sportsbikes, knock 50kg off that weight and...maybe.
Click to expand...


 


here in Austria motorcycle driving licences for beginners are limited to 48hp for the first two years. hence the huge popularity of Honda's new CB500s and Duke 390 etc., with the latter producing 44hp. if they could match this number out of 250cc (which might be difficult due to noise and emission restrictions, but should be doable - at which cost?), a race replica might hit massively. but anyway, I think the key for making manufacturer involvement attractive would be to establish a link between racing and (entry level?) road bikes.
 
Why 250 instead of a 450 single? No one should give a .... about 1-2kgs more but the lower cost and more torque is welcome.

390cc 45 hp is good enough
 
Nice idea, but I question the commercial impact. The companies have done their research and it's semi sporty twins and nakedie Roead motos - the aforementioned KTM and CB.


In the interim:


Get a SZR, rip the hideous bodywork off it. Shoehorn some TZ250 fairings onto it.
 
now we're talking ;)


seems we're on the same page when it comes to our road bikes, its just that i don't see the sense in handicapping talent for the sake of what in the end is nothing more than minuscule differences in machinery.
 
Forgot to mention taking a hammer to the tank...

I'm actually not a big fan of big singles - something not helped by having stuffed knees and the repeated experience of kicking an SR500. Though the SZR has a 'leccy leg.

That's not to say I don't understand the definite appeal of them. Just don't ride them far. Your hands won't be able to roll .....


And as written before I'm of two minds as to the way to go re: Spec v Tech Competition. Going back to that MRRDA weekend, the KTM was wasting the other bikes, including new NSFs. So yeah, money race. On the other hand, even I had a good stare at it. ( 2stroke time: It got wasted by a 10 year old TZ at PI :) )
 
Even if the points gap is not that big, I think Salom has this. He doesn't seem to be any faster than the other riders in the top 4, he simply out-thinks and out-strategises them. After teh race, he didn't seem to be celebrating when interviewed, he seemed very serious. Possibly already thinking of the next race?
 
in terms of speed I rate Vinales and Rins highly, but in terms of intelligence I agree with you, Twit, Salom is the man. little Marquez way in front for '....... of the pack' honors.
 
Good news for Miller signing a KTM deal for next year. Proving that if you have the speed you can still get somewhere without much sponsorship or a Spanish passport.


 


Genuine contender for the title next year.
 
Sloth_27
3604771378263272

Good news for Miller signing a KTM deal for next year. Proving that if you have the speed you can still get somewhere without much sponsorship or a Spanish passport.


Genuine contender for the title next year.
Click to expand...


He's good
 
Little Luca Marini makes his debut this weekend. Word is he has been getting some riding tips from a former world champ.
 
Think Rins wants to stay, Maverick & Salom are contracted to run Moto2 next year, I'd say it was certain Marquez would stay in Moto3. Folger would be the tricky one, he is hardly special but has been in 125/Moto3 since 2008 and can there be much to learn for him now, I'd say move him up for a year and see how he gets on.
 

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