Most Crashes in MotoGP?

So ...... let me get this straight Reg. ........ from the start to the finish on a Speedway bike you are accelerating ........ is that what you are saying?



I think you might want to rethink that one

BarryMachine said:

So ...... let me get this straight Reg. ........ from the start to the finish on a Speedway bike you are accelerating ........ is that what you are saying?



I think you might want to rethink that one

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They pretty much launch off the line and keep it pinned to the finish. At the end they shut down and roll to a stop as they have no brakes, as i said !

Oh Christ No Rog, ........ are you and Ereb on a bender!???

BarryMachine said:

Oh Christ

No Rog, ........ are you and Ereb on a bender!???

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Your like a needy attention seeking child. What point exactly are you trying to make?

Well, the bikes definitely have no brakes. Tried to verify the permanently-full-throttle thing. In the vid below you can see riders getting off the gas only when encountering problems.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0jmetaqU4



wikipedia (not in the mood to do a decent search now) also states that 'Competitors use this surface to slide their machines sideways (powersliding or broadsiding) into the bends using the rear wheel to scrub-off speed while still providing the drive to power the bike forward and around the bend. The skill of speedway lies in the overall ability of the rider to control his motorcycle when cornering and thus avoid losing places through deceleration.'



But what makes me side with chopper in this regard is the sound. I have watched numerous speedway races on Eurosport, and it's always a constant sound. Constant revs --> constant throttle. Full throttle.

sewarion said:

Well, the bikes definitely have no brakes. Tried to verify the permanently-full-throttle thing. In the vid below you can see riders getting off the gas only when encountering problems.



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0jmetaqU4[/media]



wikipedia (not in the mood to do a decent search now) also states that 'Competitors use this surface to slide their machines sideways (powersliding or broadsiding) into the bends using the rear wheel to scrub-off speed while still providing the drive to power the bike forward and around the bend. The skill of speedway lies in the overall ability of the rider to control his motorcycle when cornering and thus avoid losing places through deceleration.'



But what makes me side with chopper in this regard is the sound. I have watched numerous speedway races on Eurosport, and it's always a constant sound. Constant revs --> constant throttle. Full throttle.

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Well i didn't actually say they were on permanently-full-throttle although thats the idea if you want to win. I said "They pretty much launch off the line and keep it pinned to the finish".

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuzE2YWlaVs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuzE2YWlaVs[/media]



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ_DTLaFo9s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ_DTLaFo9s[/media]

birdman said:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuzE2YWlaVs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuzE2YWlaVs[/media]



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ_DTLaFo9s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ_DTLaFo9s[/media]

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Great stuff. The track is damn short!

BarryMachine said:

So ...... let me get this straight Reg. ........ from the start to the finish on a Speedway bike you are accelerating ........ is that what you are saying?



I think you might want to rethink that one

Click to expand...

Yes, they have too much compression to just chop the throttle, shut it and then open it again and you will be on ur face mate.



I got a couple of mates that are quite good speedway riders

chopperman said:

Your like a needy attention seeking child. What point exactly are you trying to make?

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Like the speedway bikes, barrymachtard has no brakes in saying dumb stuff.

While at Daytona, we went to the flat track with the boys. I recal seeing roost come off the back wheel. That is, they were applying 'power'. Hence, powesliding.

Who gives a .... anyway? Dirt is for growing potatoes, asphalt is for racing

digger said:

Who gives a .... anyway? Dirt is for growing potatoes, asphalt is for racing

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Ah yes, tell that to many of the MotoGP champions in the last 30 years, a well as the current one.



Go on youtube and type in key word: Roberts TZ750.

Jumkie said:

Ah yes, tell that to many of the MotoGP champions in the last 30 years, a well as the current one.



Go on youtube and type in key word: Roberts TZ750.

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If they love it so much, tell em to .... off back there



Just kidding, just stirring the pot mate!

sewarion said:

Great stuff. The track is damn short!

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Hence why I feel like a bit of a fang again, about 4 laps is what I feel up to lately

digger said:

Yes, they have too much compression to just chop the throttle, shut it and then open it again and you will be on ur face mate.



I got a couple of mates that are quite good speedway riders

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Not very good mates!!! They obviously have not got you out there and on a bike then!!



Had they done that you would not come up with such crap as your first statement.



If you do it wrong you are on your arse ..... not face.



Watch and listen to that video of Rob Brandford ...... he's doing it slow and deliberate ( first ride I guess ) but he has it down.

sewarion said:

But what makes me side with chopper in this regard is the sound. I have watched numerous speedway races on Eurosport, and it's always a constant sound. Constant revs --> constant throttle. Full throttle.

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And yet they still have a throttle, infinitely adjustable between fully open and fully closed. One would have thought that over the last 80 years they would have just fitted a switch between full throttle and idle, as per you and Bops video interpretations ....... which are obviously wrong



From personal experience I will opine that I am glad they have a throttle

While we are on Speedway ..... Mick recently had a go ....



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLp-XrgASD0&feature=plcp[/media]



https://twitter.com/#!/micksdoohan

OK, as someone who has followed speedway & GP racing I can tell you that whether the riders keep the throttle wide open all the way round the track depends on the track (shape and composition/water content of the shale) and the calibre of the rider. On the tighter tracks the riders may 'blip' the throttle on the entry to the corner, but well before they are any where near mid-corner the throttle will be wide open to make the rear wheel spin and hence make the bike turn.

Once more Barry you have managed to deflect the argument. We can discuss dirt, speedway and sliding as a separate issue - indeed that is not what is under dispute.



You made a post some two years ago now stating that you were able to slide your Ducati routinely 'with ease' on public roads and 'on the approach to a turn' by simply closing the throttle and by body position alone. Many were left mystified as to how you accomplished this feat, and when questioned you branch off into the realms of powersliding which you still appear to be confusing with 'backing in' which is something completely different. We can quite happily discuss sliding as a separate issue - but the original contention concerned backing in. When the MCN link below was posted of Michael Neaves you lampooned it. You urge people to get of their couches and try it..yet when confronted by the UK's most respected experienced motorcycle tester and journalist doing exactly that you pour derision on it. Perhaps as Drill suggested you should provide some evidence yourself via camcorder footage in which you can thoroughly explain then demonstrate your interpretation of backing in a motorcycle.

http://www.motorcycl...-to-back-it-in/



As Rog has repeatedly pointed out by using Super-Moto as an example, 'backing in' is predominately accomplished by retarding the rear wheel causing it to break traction and slide into a corner - achieved primarily through the downshift. The application of back brake is negligible and used as an aid to stability. However in super bike there are some riders that have employed the back brake more significantly in this technique given the advent of slipper clutches and I have provided examples of these. I have also offered to provide footage of James Whitham TT winner, BSB champion, and veteran of GP, WSBk and World Supersport stating just that over a commentary of Jonathan Rea in Superpole at Valencia. In GP I would invite you to watch old footage of 125 and 250 - particularly Mattia Pasini and Julian Simon - who would use significant amounts of rear brake (in the absence of engine braking) to slide the rear on the approach to a corner. For another example of backing in in GP - watch again the exploits of Toni Elias in that legendary ride at Estoril in 2006. Great Race.



Sliding using the throttle is a completely and utterly different issue and belongs in the realm as you quite correctly stated of speedway, dirt and in GP - the powerslide executed in or on the exit of a turn - not the approach and entry. The spectacular smoking rear wheel lit up by the likes of Doohan an Gary McCoy was precisely that...the black lines left on the approach to a corner by the likes of Chris Vermuelen and Nori Haga is specifically backing in. Two completely different techniques - and no one is questioning the validity of one over the other. Your original claim was that you slid your bike on the approach to a turn - not in the turn or not exiting the turn.



What is in question is your original statement. So very simply - once again, without any prevarication or deflection, or any talk of powersliding can you please answer the following question:



How is it possible to 'back in' or slide a road going Ducati 788 on the approach to a corner by simply closing the throttle and employing body position alone? Remember your original assertion was that you were able to routinely accomplish this on the approach to a corner. Thank you.



Incidentally, your comment about Craig Jones was crass and ill informed. When I originally mentioned Craig as a foremost proponent of 'backing in' you had no idea who he was and no interest whatsoever. Once more you quickly resort to Wikki as the bluffer you are. Craig was tragically killed in a freak accident at Brands under acceleration out of Clark Curve - the rear came around and he was struck in the head by Andrew Pitt's front wheel.