Mir signs pre-contract for Honda

michaelm · May 23, 2018

RCV600RR said:
Lorenzo was the same (at least post-Assen 2013).

When everything lined up, he was faster than Rossi. However, his off days were lower than Rossi's. More simply put, his highs were higher but his lows were lower.

Except for the perhaps slightly inconvenient fact that Jorge actually managed to win 3 world titles over a time period during which Valentino won none.

None of these guys are infinitely adaptable, and historically maybe only Hailwood and Lawson could ride absolutely anything, and I am obviously not relying on my own observations where Hailwood is concerned.

I suspect MM could ride anything, but everyone including me and probably Valentino himself thought that of Rossi before the Ducati adventure, and even MM was not really prospering on the original tire last season.

RCV600RR · May 23, 2018

michaelm said:
Except for the perhaps slightly inconvenient fact that Jorge actually managed to win 3 world titles over a time period during which Valentino won none.

My comment was confined to post-Assen 2013. Even in 2015, Rossi's highs and lows were closer to each other.

michaelm said:
None of these guys are infinitely adaptable, and historically maybe only Hailwood and Lawson could ride absolutely anything, and I am obviously not relying on my own observations where Hailwood is concerned.

I wonder if that would be true in this day and age.

michaelm said:
I suspect MM could ride anything, but everyone including me and probably Valentino himself thought that of Rossi before the Ducati adventure, and even MM was not really prospering on the original tire last season.

Agreed. Good point.

BarryMachine · May 23, 2018

I was doing a comparison between rossi and the other riders. What I found was that rossi sucked more, more consistently and over a longer time period.

michaelm · May 24, 2018

RCV600RR said:
My comment was confined to post-Assen 2013. Even in 2015, Rossi's highs and lows were closer to each other.
.

I don’t really agree, I think Jorge was consistently faster in the dry, with Rossi having the odd good track.

What mainly happened in 2015, apart from MM obstinately refusing to accept that he and the 2015 Honda had any limitations and persistently throwing the thing down the road, was that there were an unusual number of wet or damp races, conditions in which Rossi was far superior to Jorge. Neither he nor Jorge are in control of the weather, and Rossi would have fully deserved the title if he had won by being better in the prevailing conditions obviously. What he didn’t have was a right to keep his points lead with no competition from anyone but Jorge when things were more favourable to Jorge in the late season races.

BarryMachine · May 24, 2018

You guys have conveniently forgotten that from the moment Lorenzo anounced he was quitting Yam. he subjected to "the Spies Treatment" by Yamaha.

It resulted in the only time in the past 5 years that rossi performed better than Lorenzo on the Yam.

Theo · May 24, 2018

BarryMachine said:
You guys have conveniently forgotten that from the moment Lorenzo anounced he was quitting Yam. he subjected to "the Spies Treatment" by Yamaha.

It resulted in the only time in the past 5 years that rossi performed better than Lorenzo on the Yam.

I don't know when you look at the breakdown for the season the difference between Rossi and Lorenzo isn't that great.

Rossi, points 249, wins 2, 2nd 6, 3rd 2, fastest laps 2, pole positions 3, laps in 1st place 78.

Lorenzo, points 233, wins 4, 2nd 3, 3rd 3, fastest laps 2, pole positions 4, laps in 1st place 105.

Hardly makes it a Spies experience does it?

michaelm · May 24, 2018

RCV600RR said:
My comment was confined to post-Assen 2013. Even in 2015, Rossi's highs and lows were closer to each other.
.

I don’t really agree, I think Jorge was consistently faster in the dry, with Rossi having the odd good track.

What mainly happened in 2015, apart from MM obstinately refusing to accept that he and the 2015 Honda had any limitations and persistently throwing his bike down the road, was that there were an unusual number of wet or damp races, conditions in which Rossi was far superior to Jorge. Neither he nor Jorge are in control of the weather, and Rossi would have fully deserved the title if he had won by being better in the prevailing conditions obviously. What he didn’t have was a right to keep his points lead with no competition from anyone but Jorge when things were more favourable to Jorge in the late season races.

McZee · May 24, 2018

BarryMachine said:
You guys have conveniently forgotten that from the moment Lorenzo anounced he was quitting Yam. he subjected to "the Spies Treatment" by Yamaha.

.

Yep, despite Jorge winning that year, Yamaha didn't exactly look ecstatic.
Even though Jorge was leaving, the reactions of the Yam' higher-ups when he won the title, made it perfectly clear as to why he decided to go.

Holypuck · May 24, 2018

BarryMachine said:
I was doing a comparison between rossi and the other riders. What I found was that rossi sucked more, more consistently and over a longer time period.

DUUUUDEE AHAHAHA

Theo · May 24, 2018

Interesting interview with Mir about this pre-contract. Mir: "Nothing has been signed" | MotoGP?

Can't find anything from Honda about it. But I expect he will stay in Moto2 next year as he will have a good chance of winning the series. If that happens then Pedrosa will stay 1 more year which would allow Mir to take his seat in 2020, this would muck up the other teams interested in him as it seems they all do the odd years for contracts.

Holypuck · May 24, 2018

Theo said:
Interesting interview with Mir about this pre-contract. Mir: "Nothing has been signed" | MotoGP?

Can't find anything from Honda about it. But I expect he will stay in Moto2 next year as he will have a good chance of winning the series. If that happens then Pedrosa will stay 1 more year which would allow Mir to take his seat in 2020, this would muck up the other teams interested in him as it seems they all do the odd years for contracts.

Rumors down here are that Mir is really, really close to Suzuki as of this moment.

Theo · May 24, 2018

Holypuck said:
Rumors down here are that Mir is really, really close to Suzuki as of this moment.

His agent says they are talking to all the teams, btw, what bike is Marc VDS using next year in Moto2, I know its a Triumph engine, but what frame?

BarryMachine · May 24, 2018

Theo said:
I don't know when you look at the breakdown for the season the difference between Rossi and Lorenzo isn't that great.

Rossi, points 249, wins 2, 2nd 6, 3rd 2, fastest laps 2, pole positions 3, laps in 1st place 78.

Lorenzo, points 233, wins 4, 2nd 3, 3rd 3, fastest laps 2, pole positions 4, laps in 1st place 105.

Hardly makes it a Spies experience does it?

Ok not as bad as Spies got ..... but Lorenzo suddenly wenthella worse than he had been for several years.

BarryMachine · May 24, 2018

Theo said:
Interesting interview with Mir about this pre-contract. Mir: "Nothing has been signed" | MotoGP?

Can't find anything from Honda about it. But I expect he will stay in Moto2 next year as he will have a good chance of winning the series. If that happens then Pedrosa will stay 1 more year which would allow Mir to take his seat in 2020, this would muck up the other teams interested in him as it seems they all do the odd years for contracts.

Weird thingis is ... that original article posted, said that the "pre-contract" finished 19 May .... which is now long gone.

Its all very odd.

McZee · May 24, 2018

In terms of the motogp musical chairs currently going on for next season, I don't think Mir is going to feature much.
Weirdly Suzuki really seem to be a big player in relation to who goes where. Who would've expected to say that a year or so ago? But I am glad it is the case.

Theo · May 24, 2018

BarryMachine said:
Weird thingis is ... that original article posted, said that the "pre-contract" finished 19 May .... which is now long gone.

Its all very odd.

Just to chuck another spanner in, but Mir's interview was on 21/5 so yes nothing was signed at that time, but the pre-contract ended on the 19th

so maybe they were bending the truth a bit, as in yes he did, but not now.

RCV600RR · May 24, 2018

BarryMachine said:
You guys have conveniently forgotten that from the moment Lorenzo anounced he was quitting Yam. he subjected to "the Spies Treatment" by Yamaha.

It resulted in the only time in the past 5 years that rossi performed better than Lorenzo on the Yam.

What about 2014?

RCV600RR · May 24, 2018

michaelm said:
I don’t really agree, I think Jorge was consistently faster in the dry, with Rossi having the odd good track.

Maybe I'm wrong. Let me look it up. My recollection was that JL qualified much better than Rossi almost everywhere, but that Rossi had really strong Sunday race pace. I recall that JL seemed to be faster (in qualifying and in the race) from Aragon in the dry.

michaelm said:
there were an unusual number of wet or damp races, conditions in which Rossi was far superior to Jorge. Neither he nor Jorge are in control of the weather, and Rossi would have fully deserved the title if he had won by being better in the prevailing conditions obviously.

Again, I recall differently but let me look it up.

michaelm said:
What he didn’t have was a right to keep his points lead with no competition from anyone but Jorge when things were more favourable to Jorge in the late season races.

Agreed, but I don't think that was the thrust of his (IMO clearly wrong contention). He thought (again, IMO incorrectly) that MM was purposely balking him at PI.

McZee · May 24, 2018

RCV600RR said:
Agreed, but I don't think that was the thrust of his (IMO clearly wrong contention). He thought (again, IMO incorrectly) that MM was purposely balking him at PI.

I think one of the main problems for normal folk like ourselves is that we cannot truly put ourselves into the mindset of someone who is at the pinnacle of the sport and who possess the absolute win at all costs mindset.
It is human nature to judge others by our own standards and the (as a general rule), 'selfish' mindset set that is required to compete at these levels is just not within most of us.

So, whilst I don't agree with or like a lot of Vale's statements and behaviour, it has to be put into context of someone who has, to an extent, a totally different thought process to myself.
It doesn't stop me raging at the telly though. I went rhino when watching Sepang 15.

p4p1 · May 24, 2018

In regards to 2015, I don't know if there was an unusual amount of mixed or wet races but I remember they came at perfect times for Rossi. Lorenzo would blow everyone away in practice and qualifying while Rossi was having a tough weekend and then it would rain on Sunday. Plus Lorenzos helmet falling apart and causing him vision issues at one of his strongest tracks, Qatar. Pedrosa being out and injured for a few races back when only 4 bikes could win, Marquez refusing to settle for positions and Honda seriously dropping the ball with the 2015 bike. Of course the tyre removal in Assen when at least one of the riders implied it was to stop Lorenzo making it 5 in a row.
It seemed like everything that could go wrong for Rossi's title rivals in 2015 did but Rossi didn't have the pace down the stretch to maintain his lead once Pedrosa, Marquez and Lorenzo had sorted any issues they were having.

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