Mir signs pre-contract for Honda

synn · May 22, 2018

Usually, we can see how good a rider is at adapting when you see them move classes.
e.g. Brad Binder. Absolutely phenomenal in Moto3 (He won a race from dead last), but taking his time to get used to Moto2. Bagnaia took a season to become really good in Moto2 as well. Ditto Jorge Navarro, Romano Fenati etc.

Mir took to Moto2 like a fish to water. I am fairly confident he will outperform Mini Marquez as the season moves on. That guy has talent.

michaelm · May 22, 2018

MdubSTYLIE said:
Until I see a rider as dominate a Marc in the smaller classes I wouldn't be to worried about getting beat if I was him. There isn't a current rider on the grid an up and comer or a sperm in Stoners balls that can compete with Marc. I would say we see about 75% of Marcs potential because there isn't anyone to push him. There isn't a rider alive that can push him.

I agree, I haven’t been following moto 2 very closely, the last time it was really interesting for me was when MM was riding in that class, but neither Mir not anyone else is pushing MM closely in the near future or even the medium term future imo. The only guy who could go close to matching him for pace was Jorge on a Yamaha developed around him on Bridgestone tires which particularly suited him, circumstances not likely to be repeated any time soon if ever; I guess Vinales made a fair fist of doing so for a few races on Michelin tires which particularly suited him, but those tires aren’t coming back either.

McZee · May 22, 2018

pyeman said:
He's underachieved big time in my opinion,he's been on that bike for 13 seasons now and never delivered a title, that's not good enough on a top bike in arguably the top team in gp racing, especially when you consider Marquez comes in and wins it straight away on the same bike and then adds 3 more titles so far.

I don't want to hijack the thread as this is a topic of it's own, but I don't think you could get a better number 2 rider within the strictures of how history has unfolded. If Dani was Honda's top boy then, yes, you're 100% right, but riding shotgun for Marc, he's been great and, as Holypuck pointed out, he's the only person to win a race in the top class every year for however long he's been in it.
Yes I agree that Dani maybe didn't fulfill the promise that followed him into the big class, but given his injuries and the advent of Stoner and Marquez as team mates, I think he's done a good job. Also, up until this year, the 1000cc Honda hasn't been the best bike nor was it in the 800s, but I concede that it was for most of the 990 era.

MdubSTYLIE · May 22, 2018

danski said:
Dovi pushed him all last season so there are riders out there who will, trouble is not only is Marquez an incredible talent but the Honda is probably the best bike right now. If Yamaha manage to get on terms there's a couple of riders there who can compete with him.

He did push Marc. But I say it was because Ducati had the electronics figure out compared to the rest. Honda and suzuki being slightly lost while yamaha is completely lost by not using magnelli like the rest. That alone made the ducati look more competitive, like they turned a corner when in actuality the other manufacturers went backwards. The honda and yamaha are still the superior bikes but yamaha is really ....... lost.

MdubSTYLIE · May 22, 2018

michaelm said:
I agree, I haven’t been following moto 2 very closely, the last time it was really interesting for me was when MM was riding in that class, but neither Mir not anyone else is pushing MM closely in the near future or even the medium term future imo. The only guy who could go close to matching him for pace was Jorge on a Yamaha developed around him on Bridgestone tires which particularly suited him, circumstances not likely to be repeated any time soon if ever; I guess Vinales made a fair fist of doing so for a few races on Michelin tires which particularly suited him, but those tires aren’t coming back either.

Right it takes the perfect storm to compete with MM. Even then the rider is relying on Marc making a few costly mistake to "compete" with him.

Holypuck · May 22, 2018

pyeman said:
He's underachieved big time in my opinion,he's been on that bike for 13 seasons now and never delivered a title, that's not good enough on a top bike in arguably the top team in gp racing, especially when you consider Marquez comes in and wins it straight away on the same bike and then adds 3 more titles so far.

I'm not really saying Pedrosa is a phenom, I'm only saying he is a really, really good rider who IMHO gets flak too often. He is penalized by his body (1.58m...I was taller than that when I was 11 y/o and I ain't a big dude) and by the many injuries he sustained. I also reckon he was quite unlucky. Yes, he never delivered a premier class title but I still think he's had one heck of a career.

Marquez is probably the most talented rider to ever turn his leg over a motorcycle, at least in Grand Prix racing, so I wouldn't compare the two too much.

Barbedwirebikerr · May 22, 2018

MdubSTYLIE said:
Until I see a rider as dominate a Marc in the smaller classes I wouldn't be to worried about getting beat if I was him. There isn't a current rider on the grid an up and comer or a sperm in Stoners balls that can compete with Marc. I would say we see about 75% of Marcs potential because there isn't anyone to push him. There isn't a rider alive that can push him.

There is. You mentioned his balls above.

MdubSTYLIE · May 22, 2018

Barbedwirebikerr said:
There is. You mentioned his balls above.

Well played BWB.

Little Walter · May 22, 2018

MdubSTYLIE said:
Until I see a rider as dominate a Marc in the smaller classes I wouldn't be to worried about getting beat if I was him. There isn't a current rider on the grid an up and comer or a sperm in Stoners balls that can compete with Marc. I would say we see about 75% of Marcs potential because there isn't anyone to push him. There isn't a rider alive that can push him.

If HRC can keep the bike as sorted out as it currently is in coming seasons I would have to agree. Historically though they go through a pretty regular cycle of having a great bike for a period of time and then spoiling it with new and improved gimmickry.

Little Walter · May 22, 2018

MdubSTYLIE said:
He did push Marc. But I say it was because Ducati had the electronics figure out compared to the rest. Honda and suzuki being slightly lost while yamaha is completely lost by not using magnelli like the rest. That alone made the ducati look more competitive, like they turned a corner when in actuality the other manufacturers went backwards. The honda and yamaha are still the superior bikes but yamaha is really ....... lost.

HRC knew about the spec electronic ruling far in advance of it being applied. They had all of 2016 and 2017 to learn how to use it. I don't seriously think Ducati's understanding of it changed that drastically over the course of the last season. There were changes made to the Duc that simply worked well for Dovi who's confidence just grew and grew. It's just too easy to discount the idea that Dovi just became a better rider. Too reminiscent of the whole Ducati rides itself line of thought aimed then at Stoner

MdubSTYLIE · May 22, 2018

Little Walter said:
If HRC can keep the bike as sorted out as it currently is in coming seasons I would have to agree. Historically though they go through a pretty regular cycle of having a great bike for a period of time and then spoiling it with new and improved gimmickry.

I believe last year was that year. I am a big Dovi fan but like I said, I think his success was slightly based on how off honda and yamaha were with the new simpler electronics package. I believe that honda will go through a low when Pedrosa is gone the same way yamaha has after losing JLo. Mir isn't going to be any help developing the bike and I don't think Marcs freakish information is useful. The same way I don;t think Stoners was. How useful is it to develop a bike around a rider who rides differently than anyone else? Both these riders can make a pile of hit look fast so how do you gather information to develop a sound bike?

MdubSTYLIE · May 22, 2018

Little Walter said:
HRC knew about the spec electronic ruling far in advance of it being applied. They had all of 2016 and 2017 to learn how to use it. I don't seriously think Ducati's understanding of it changed that drastically over the course of the last season. There were changes made to the Duc that simply worked well for Dovi who's confidence just grew and grew. It's just too easy to discount the idea that Dovi just became a better rider. Too reminiscent of the whole Ducati rides itself line of thought aimed then at Stoner

Not Ducatis understanding of the electronics but magnelli's. Honda switched to Magnelli after struggling with it while Ducati seem to be the only ones with it sorted early on. The only bike not running that system is yamaha. Hence they are still struggling.

BarryMachine · May 22, 2018

They are all running the same ecu dubs. Its the rules.

Keshav · May 22, 2018

MdubSTYLIE said:
Not Ducatis understanding of the electronics but magnelli's. Honda switched to Magnelli after struggling with it while Ducati seem to be the only ones with it sorted early on. The only bike not running that system is yamaha. Hence they are still struggling.

BarryMachine said:
They are all running the same ecu dubs. Its the rules.

He's right Dub. It's a spec ecu. Has been for two years.

MdubSTYLIE · May 22, 2018

BarryMachine said:
They are all running the same ecu dubs. Its the rules.

Right but from what I have heard yamaha is the only doing there own thing developing the system to make it work. And from both he riders words where they are furthest behind is in the electronics department.

"Normally what all the manufacturers do is they develop a sort of interface tool - in-between their calculations and the calibration tool we give - which is easier for them to use and generate a calibration in the software language," Cecchinelli explained.

"Everybody is developing their own proprietary interface that goes 'upstream' of the calibration tool."

I have heard a few times during race weekends but don't have any proof in writing that all but yamaha are working with magnelli on the interface tool.

synn · May 22, 2018

No custom IMUs next year. Ducatis will go backwards.

JPSLotus · May 22, 2018

The only rider beating MM at this point is MM.

He's not going to win every race obviously, but this year it's looking apparent he is on another planet with how he is riding. Sure it helps Yamaha shot their foot off and that Ducati is having that old Ducati luck again. But at Le Mans, does anyone really think he was pushing 100% once he got in the lead? I don't. Never looked like he was going all out. He just pushed enough to open up a decent gap on Petrucci and then rode to bring the bike home since the surface was unforgiving as all hell. Mugello to me is the only wild card circuit for him since the long straight is going to make for an interesting race as long as Dovi is in the mix. Early feeling is it will be a Dovi/Marc battle there.

Joan Mir is talented, but he isn't the next MM. If they go with him over Pedrosa, there won't be anything wrong with that. They'll likely have a highly competent rider in that seat to bring home valuable constructor's points.

Iamapony · May 22, 2018

It's all very relative, I suppose. MM almost got engaged in a couple of crashes at the beginning and needed to hang back until that rear tire came up to temperature. He also made a save with his elbow, that would have been a crash for anyone else. Maybe he should be called "Elbows" or "Codos Dos". If that is a cruise race for MM, then everyone else might as well split the rest of the points behind 25, until he retires.

Iamapony · May 22, 2018

My instincts say that Mir will be a Honda mistake, like Miller, or over rated like Vinales.

michaelm · May 22, 2018

MdubSTYLIE said:
He did push Marc. But I say it was because Ducati had the electronics figure out compared to the rest. Honda and suzuki being slightly lost while yamaha is completely lost by not using magnelli like the rest. That alone made the ducati look more competitive, like they turned a corner when in actuality the other manufacturers went backwards. The honda and yamaha are still the superior bikes but yamaha is really ....... lost.

He obviously pushed him very hard, but more on race craft than 1 lap pace imo, although he did have great pace as well. He and/or Ducati couldn’t get the bike to work at some circuits, which was crucial towards the end of the season. I agree with your later post that Dovi’s excellent riding gets discounted, particularly given like Stoner he is so far ahead of other Ducati riders. The same probably applies to MM in 2015, 2016 and to some extent 2017, the Honda was a difficult bike for several years.

Mir signs pre-contract for Honda

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

synn

michaelm

McZee

MdubSTYLIE

MdubSTYLIE

Holypuck

Barbedwirebikerr

MdubSTYLIE

Little Walter

Little Walter

MdubSTYLIE

MdubSTYLIE

BarryMachine

Keshav

MdubSTYLIE

synn

JPSLotus

Iamapony

Iamapony

michaelm

Similar threads

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions