Mind Games...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Feb 21 2008, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True that Stoner is now the man to beat. No doubt. But Pedro was not really second best last year, and everybody knows that...

I (and other people who have seen the standings from last year) are in no doubt that Perosa was second best in 07, the opinion that he is not is held by many of the people who dislike him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spooky @ Feb 21 2008, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>... only rider lastyear to make Stoner work hard for the victory ...

He sure as hell didn't make it LOOK hard.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spooky @ Feb 21 2008, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. if Rossi's bike hadnt of ...... up(ie, blown up) the end result would of been different.

2. and thats on seriously sub-standard equipment,

1. There were 18 races last year, you could "if" a different result for all of them and the championship might have looked different, but it didn't. This is racing not figure skating, there is a points system to determine who is best and disguarding it is a waste of time.

2. The level of the equipment remains debatable and can only ever be an opinion, ultimately results are ALWAYS a combination of both factors, even when Rossi wins.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spooky @ Feb 21 2008, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>indeed, but like you say, it's always a combination of both factors, and if, like i said before, Rossi's bike was more reliable then end result would of been different he may not of won but he would of been 2nd overall.

But what if Pedrosas bike wasn't crap? What if he didn't get taken out of so many races? Surely with that Dani would still have been above Rossi. we can play this game all day long until your favorite rider is the deserved world champion, or accept what actually happened..................

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spooky @ Feb 21 2008, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Was having a bit of banter there mate...i agree with you. The point i'm trying to make is Rossi is still up there in terms of riding ability, everyone has problems with their machines.....it looks like Rossi's bike is gonna be more competitive than lastyear which(all goin well)will mean closer racing!

Yea man, its all good. Nobody is stupid enough to rule rossi out are they, and the off-season has clearly done the man some good

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 21 2008, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. There were 18 races last year, you could "if" a different result for all of them and the championship might have looked different, but it didn't. This is racing not figure skating, there is a points system to determine who is best and disguarding it is a waste of time.

2. The level of the equipment remains debatable and can only ever be an opinion, ultimately results are ALWAYS a combination of both factors, even when Rossi wins.

I just watched the Qatar race from last year. Stoner had a 20kph advantage on the straight. How can you debate that Rossi's bike was better? We can say that his bike was tuned for the cornering and all but I agree with Mamola that it is impossible to make that up. So in my opinion the 20 kph bike was the better bike that the Yamaha couldn't come up with an answer for all year. Also, in Qatar last year Stoner set the fastest lap of the race on the last lap, meaning his bridgestones held out very well. I agree that the level of equipment is always debatable, but only to a certain point, then you have to say, damn that bike is better. Capirossi was in the fight and gained all his ground on the straight as well until he crashed out. Well, I am going to ask Melandri if the Ducati is better after the first race

As far as the mind games goes, I have to agree that he was just making a statement. Pedrosa was in second after the season and therefore logically speaking he will be his toughest rival. But then we have to look at how tough?? If Stoner was going off the logic that he was seconds in points so therefore he will be my toughest oponent, then we have to look at the spread. The point spread was so huge that Stoner should then follow up his statement saying but he won't be that tough because I smoked everyone in points last year. I think Stoner doesn't think about stuff like that. He just gets on the Bike and rides like hell. Obvioulsy this report is chopped up, I would really like to see the question the reporter asked him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Feb 22 2008, 04:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just watched the Qatar race from last year. Stoner had a 20kph advantage on the straight. How can you debate that Rossi's bike was better? We can say that his bike was tuned for the cornering and all but I agree with Mamola that it is impossible to make that up. So in my opinion the 20 kph bike was the better bike that the Yamaha couldn't come up with an answer for all year. Also, in Qatar last year Stoner set the fastest lap of the race on the last lap, meaning his bridgestones held out very well. I agree that the level of equipment is always debatable, but only to a certain point, then you have to say, damn that bike is better. Capirossi was in the fight and gained all his ground on the straight as well until he crashed out. Well, I am going to ask Melandri if the Ducati is better after the first race

As far as the mind games goes, I have to agree that he was just making a statement. Pedrosa was in second after the season and therefore logically speaking he will be his toughest rival. But then we have to look at how tough?? If Stoner was going off the logic that he was seconds in points so therefore he will be my toughest oponent, then we have to look at the spread. The point spread was so huge that Stoner should then follow up his statement saying but he won't be that tough because I smoked everyone in points last year. I think Stoner doesn't think about stuff like that. He just gets on the Bike and rides like hell. Obvioulsy this report is chopped up, I would really like to see the question the reporter asked him.


He's right about one thing.
Nobody seems to be giving Pedrosa a chance when he is a massive chance to become champ if Michelin turn the corner with performance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 21 2008, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I (and other people who have seen the standings from last year) are in no doubt that Perosa was second best in 07, the opinion that he is not is held by many of the people who dislike him.

It' s not a matter of like and dislike, and it's not an opinion. Pedrosa arrived formally in front of Rossi by 1 (one) point, which amounts to being even on a total of hundreds. But he had less victories than Rossi and lost all direct confrontations with him. So, who was second best to Stoner? Hmmmmm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Feb 21 2008, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So, who was second best to Stoner? Hmmmmm

Pedrosa. I know you don't like the idea of a points system where a rider can beat another with less race wins but thats the rules that exist and Rossi was 3rd best.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (howard @ Feb 21 2008, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think Stoner's got the maturity yet to convincingly pull off any mind game-age.
i agree. i think its just idle chit chat and nothing offensive meant by it. jurno's are baying for a war of words like the old biaggi/gibbers days as are some of us here . stoner so far has been a respectful sportsman and i cant see that change in the near future, win or loose.

I just read Casey's statement, and I couldn't help but think this was some reporter's attempt to create a "mind game" himself, not from the person saying it. ...., Casey might have said he thought Rossi was an equal threat the very next sentence. It seems such a short article full of a one sided attempt by the reporter to try and get a fight going. Please, this seems a bit contrived for my blood. I'd be willing to bet a year's wages that if you were to put a microphone in Casey's face today and ask him what he thought about the challenge of racing with against Rossi, he wouldn't say it would be a cake walk. .... the reporter who wrote and published this .........

Just look at these statements:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>MotoGP world champion Casey Stoner continued playing mind games with Valentino Rossi on Thursday, saying Dani Pedrosa would be his main rival this season.

I'm positive this was the report's creation trying to make it a mind game. Jesus, can this statement be any more leading?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"Last year Valentino Rossi didn't finish second but third. Therefore I should fear Pedrosa more. Anyway it is better to be chased than to chase," the 22-year-old told the Gazzetta dello Sport.

Amazing, but here the Autosport report, wasn't even the ...... who got the story but simply reporting on a story from another publication, the Gazzetta. No wonder he injected his own personal take on it by declaring it a "mind game" and we all are now swallowing his characterization of it as we have done on this thread. I say .... him, that's my characterization of his ........ bias reporting job. Just give us the news ......, we don't need your personal analysis of it, let us make up our mind if its a "mind game" or not. As far as I see it, Stoner was simply making a precise statement, that is he was saying Pedrosa was second in the championship (fact) and "therefore" (notice this little overlooked word) "should" be more worried about Peders. But is he? Can we deduce from this second hand article from this .... head at Autosport what actually was the context of the interview between Casey ant the Gazzetta?

Again, .... the report's injection of sensationalism.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>He added: "We cannot try to keep this (the number one) without a lot of hard work. At the moment the pre-season testing is going very very well. We've improved the bike a lot in a lot of the areas that we really struggling last year. So at the moment I feel very comfortable.

"Also Bridgestone has done a fantastic job: we've improved a little bit with a couple of new tyres and we are just waiting for the beginning of the season. But I try not too expect too much from this season. I'll try to do the same we did last year and work hard at this."

Where is the mind game above? But notice the reporter’s injection of his own ....... want to make something of it below:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Rossi, who has won seven world titles, finished outside the top two last year for the first time in any category since his rookie season in 1996. He blamed Michelin tyres and has switched to Bridgestone.

Stoner made similar remarks about Rossi earlier this year but the Italian has largely resisted the temptation to take the bait and start a war of words.


Saying Rossi won’t “take the bait” in this “war of words” is the equivalent of the school yard egging of kids tring to get a fight out of thin air. I’m sure we all remember the scene, imagine the boys saying, “what, your gonna let him talk to you like that? Oh, I would NOT let him talk to me like that, why don’t you hit him.”

Why have I read so many taking the bait here on this thread? ...., to me this article was written purely to get us all in a tizzy, and from what I'm reading it worked.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Feb 21 2008, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I just read Casey's statement, and I could help but think this was some reporter's attempt to create a "mind game" himself, not from the person saying it. ...., Casey might have said he thought Rossi was an equal threat the very next sentence. It seems such a short article full of a one sided attempt by the reporter to try and get a fight going. Please, this seems a bit contrived for my blood. I'd be willing to bet a year's wages that if you were to put a microphone in Casey's face today and ask him what he thought about the challenge of racing with against Rossi, he wouldn't say it would be a cake walk. .... the reporter who wrote and published this .........
some of us here are a bit long in the tooth to fall for this ..... now.
funny how you buy into the pedro/hayden comments tho mate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 21 2008, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa. I know you don't like the idea of a points system where a rider can beat another with less race wins but thats the rules that exist and Rossi was 3rd best.
Using any of the stats from 2007 to try to determine who is the better rider is fraught with danger - the points gap "showed" Pedrochio to be 0.4% better (1 point over 242), the wins gap "showed" Rossi to be twice as good (2 wins versus 4 wins). The stats are just that - they cannot not tell the full story.

If you are going to stick religiously to the points positions being the only way to judge a rider's skill, then also bear in mind that the points you are referring to are for 2007 only.

We have no points as yet for 2008 and I agree with many of the other posters - If Stoner needs to worry about anyone in 2008, Rossi should be more of a concern than Pedrochio. The stats from the pre-season tests back this up, as do the facts that Pedders is unlikely to be fully fit for Qatar, and that Rossi's now on B'stones.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Feb 21 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>some of us here are a bit long in the tooth to fall for this ..... now.
funny how you buy into the pedro/hayden comments tho mate

Oh really, lets see:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"it's better to be alone than in bad company". In the same interview, Pedrosa mentioned that "apparently, the Champion doesn't know how to develop a bike" Pedrosa circa 2008


You're right buddy. I admit, I did read too much into Pedrosa saying; Hayden is ..... It must have been lost in translation or something.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 21 2008, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa. I know you don't like the idea of a points system where a rider can beat another with less race wins but thats the rules that exist and Rossi was 3rd best.

We have already discussed that on this forum. Is 1 point worth the same as a victory? Of course not, but with this system it can become more important. So the system is wrong. The point system should be corrected so that a minimum of 5 points difference is required between two riders, -- if the difference is less than 5 points at the end of the season then the number of victories and podiums should prevail.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 21 2008, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think Rossi has the upper hand anymore psychologically. Its easy to have the advantage when you are the best rider on the track, but last year Rossi's performance varied noticably when he became demoralized and he talked himself into such a corner he couldn't even go on without changing equipment.
Not true at all, thats stoner "boner" talk.
Rossi was never demoralized, except for the tax evasion maybe. Why would he be demoralized? So what if he lost a few races, and 2 championships in a row, there's always next time.