Michelin 070 chosen by riders

michaelm said:

I don't because it screws Vinales for being better at utilising the tyre they mostly all voted for the first time, pre-season.


Have both tyres available for the rest of the season unless there is a genuine safety issue is the only fair thing imo as I and others have said. I have no problem with the new construction tyre being the choice for next season as a result of a pre-season majority decision, but not after a season has started when a contending rider has proven more proficient at utilising the existing tyre.

If you want a series where they handicap bikes as the season progresses like WSBK prior to DORNA buying that series fine, but that is not my idea of premier class gp bike racing, and handicapping riders/riding styles is even more malodorous, again imo.

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You nailed the .... out of it. This mid season manipulation reeks of "fixing". Both tires should be available to all riders for the rest of the year and narrow it to one next year. As I said a few months ago, Between Carmelo and Goober, they are playing Kingmaker. The only thing holding them back is Marc Marquez. He will beat Rossi badly on a consistent basis when both have their desired front tire.its still possible for Marquez to .... up enough times and Vinales struggle with new front that Rossi backs into a title.

33 Coupe said:

Why didn't Marquez vote for it in the pre-season vote if it's such an advantage to him!

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Marc was so eager to use this tire that he vetoed it at Argentina. Veto and vote are like the same thing right?

Jumkie said:

Marc was so eager to use this tire that he vetoed it at Argentina. Veto and vote are like the same thing right?

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Voting card for pre-season tyre vote.

Please tick your preference:
( ) l vote for the use of the 070 Michelin tyre
( ) I veto the use of the 070 Michelin tyre

Simple really, especially for those who english is a second language. :unsure:

Maybe you and others should ask Marc directly.

This is what he just said:
MotoGP?

But of course it could all be part of the Rossi conspiracy, duh.

33 Coupe said:

Why didn't Marquez vote for it in the pre-season vote if it's such an advantage to him!

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Because pre season the tyre according to all riders but Rossi was ..... So instead of developing the tyre the riders chose originally, Michelin went away and made the #70 tyre better than the original #06 tyre which is totally unpredictable and total dog .... for the riders.

J4rn0 said:

Maybe you and others should ask Marc directly.

This is what he just said:
MotoGP?

But of course it could all be part of the Rossi conspiracy, duh.

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The implications of this evidently still elude you.

Originally, during pre-season testing there was one approval of this tyre from one rider just as the lobbying for its reintroduction originated from the same camp. This snowballed into a vote which has once more witnessed a change of tyre construction mid-season - however far from being predicated upon safety, this is entirely about rider preference (or originally, one rider in particular's preference). The ramifications of this for the sport, irrespective of the original motivations for its reappraisal are manifest. However, in this case, the powerful force influencing this change is also of grave significance for not only the future integrity but the very probity of the sport. Whether or not they benefit from the change, are you really suggesting that say Crutchlow or even Márquez could have similarly successfully petitioned for this vote far less even persuaded 'fix-elin' to entertain the notion of a mothballed #70 carcass?

EDIT TO ADD CONDESCENDING SANCTIMONIOUS SIGNATURE EMOJI:

J4rn0 said:

Maybe you and others should ask Marc directly.

This is what he just said:
MotoGP?

But of course it could all be part of the Rossi conspiracy, duh.

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Marc has said other things, which do not support your apparent claim, I am afraid.

I believe that many of the conspiracy proponents have said all along that Rossi/Dorna could ruin their own plan with the 070 because it suits Marquez, too. I agree with that. I think almost anything Rossi will like, Marquez will like, also. This is not a revelation.

This season has turned into a colossal crock of .....

The mid-season tire change was only made possible because of Rossi wanting the tire. This never gets to a vote if any other rider on the grid makes the request.

Just hammers home further that the spec tire is the path to ruination for this sport.

Michelin's tire design philosophy has not changed in decades. Go back to the 500cc era of the late 1980s/early 1990s, and Michelin was all about making a grippy rear tire that came at the expense of the front tire. It took several laps to warm up to operating temperatures compared to the Dunlops, but when warmed up they were noted for a ton of side grip. That abundance of side grip has a lot to do with the numerous high-sides of riders of that era since you could lose grip and then suddenly find the bike regaining grip at the rear unexpectedly before you got launched off the bike.

It would be better for all watching if we had at least 2 tire manufacturers supplying the grid.

Even though purportedly the tire is the same for everyone, rider feedback would indicate there are significant variations in tire performance with the same tire compounds being used. So you have no idea what you will get from tire to tire as Vinales found out.

It's interesting, the season started out with a lot of promise and has now managed to go straight into the ....... because of Rossi/Dorna/Michelin...the usual culprits that manage to ruin everything because of an obsession with a 10th world title that ultimately means nothing due to the constant manipulation of the tires.

Something to be proud of I guess? The fans are being scammed by Dorna and Michelin but think this is all perfectly normal.

JPSLotus said:

This season has turned into a colossal crock of .....

The mid-season tire change was only made possible because of Rossi wanting the tire. This never gets to a vote if any other rider on the grid makes the request.

Just hammers home further that the spec tire is the path to ruination for this sport.

Michelin's tire design philosophy has not changed in decades. Go back to the 500cc era of the late 1980s/early 1990s, and Michelin was all about making a grippy rear tire that came at the expense of the front tire. It took several laps to warm up to operating temperatures compared to the Dunlops, but when warmed up they were noted for a ton of side grip. That abundance of side grip has a lot to do with the numerous high-sides of riders of that era since you could lose grip and then suddenly find the bike regaining grip at the rear unexpectedly before you got launched off the bike.

It would be better for all watching if we had at least 2 tire manufacturers supplying the grid.

Even though purportedly the tire is the same for everyone, rider feedback would indicate there are significant variations in tire performance with the same tire compounds being used. So you have no idea what you will get from tire to tire as Vinales found out.

It's interesting, the season started out with a lot of promise and has now managed to go straight into the ....... because of Rossi/Dorna/Michelin...the usual culprits that manage to ruin everything because of an obsession with a 10th world title that ultimately means nothing due to the constant manipulation of the tires.

Something to be proud of I guess? The fans are being scammed by Dorna and Michelin but think this is all perfectly normal.

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But as I have said elsewhere I don't think Rossi will be anywhere near a podium place, he is in trouble with his right chest/arm situation. I know its not been said but I bet he has got at least 2 broken ribs, as his chest hit the handlebars in his between race accident.

J4rn0 said:

Marquez is the rider who has dominated the MotoGP field since 2013 and he's the one who's going to benefit the most from the reintroduction of the 070, -- by his own admission. Rossi could have better chances against Vinales or Pedrosa on the 006 than against Marquez on the 070.

By the way, I think Vinales is not going to be affected by this change much. So Rossi is going to have more problems with the reintroduction of the 070, not less. Add to the mix a possible 070-resurrected Iannone -- the perfect spoiler.

But of course Michelin is going to give Rossi a custom 070 SNS, uh? Designed just for him, overnight!

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If, rider influence is the decisive factor, it would not be based on who won the most races, but rather, who puts the most ..... in seats.

And no, I'm not saying all Rossi fans are ......

J4rn0 said:

Maybe you and others should ask Marc directly.

This is what he just said:
MotoGP?

But of course it could all be part of the Rossi conspiracy, duh.

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He said, "The tire that we'll use.". No mention of which tire that is.

Theo said:

But as I have said elsewhere I don't think Rossi will be anywhere near a podium place, he is in trouble with his right chest/arm situation. I know its not been said but I bet he has got at least 2 broken ribs, as his chest hit the handlebars in his between race accident.

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Whether Rossi is competitive or not due to injury is irrelevant at this point. 070 is at Mugello because Rossi wanted the tire and that led to a vote on it. As has already been pointed out, this has literally nothing to do with safety grounds at all but rider preference....which also highlights the hilarity of safety concern in GP. Salom gets killed and rather than fix the section of the track, they change the lap configuration at Catalunya. More riders crashed out in the premier class last year due to front end washouts than any other season in history I believe, and it was all considered perfectly acceptable. Who cares that riders were and continue to crash out due to a .... front tire. Michelin is free to continue making a substandard front tire because in Dorna thinking, this means unpredictability/spicing up of the show.

It's directly out of the Bernie Ecclestone playbook.

Carmelo needs to be taken out back and shot as he has had a detrimental impact on the way the championship has been conducted for the last 17 seasons.

Totally agree that riders should be able to run their tire of preference. I think this can only be possible when multiple manufacturers are allowed to participate.

This manipulation of the class is borderline criminal and yes is reminiscent of Ecclestone. I stopped watching F1 and sat out last year for MotoGP. If this season turns into the farce that looks to be shaping up I will be gone again.

Prototype racing is supposed to be just that, not a circus or a fixed gladiator "competition."

Bern1 said:

Totally agree that riders should be able to run their tire of preference. I think this can only be possible when multiple manufacturers are allowed to participate.

This manipulation of the class is borderline criminal and yes is reminiscent of Ecclestone. I stopped watching F1 and sat out last year for MotoGP. If this season turns into the farce that looks to be shaping up I will be gone again.

Prototype racing is supposed to be just that, not a circus or a fixed gladiator "competition."

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How tires in GP should work is that whichever tire manufacturer you want to use is fair play.

Shouldn't matter if it is Michelin, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Pirelli, or whomever else. If the company is willing to supply a tire to a given race team, then that is fine. Would eliminate so much of the stupidity involved of trying to artificially bunch the fields up by creating a tire whose characteristics are a constantly moving target for teams to try and lockdown. That more than anything is in my opinion why the tire consistency exists. It's about nothing more than trying to manipulate each race outcome into some version of unpredictability. Predictable tires would mean a factory could in fact truly design their bike around the spec tire and possibly wind up with an insurmountable advantage before the red lights go out at Losail in March.

Instead you have a tire design that is constantly changing from race to race so it resembles a ....... NJ boardwalk game. It's actually like the ....... frog game where you launch frogs off a springboard using a hammer and try to get them to land on the lillies floating in the water to win a prize that is naturally nowhere near as valuable as the money you will piss away trying to win said prize.



Those lillies floating around are basically Michelin's tire design philosophy in a nutshell as requested by Dorna.

I thought Honda switching to a big bang V4 configuration was going to work wonders for them this year. Instead because of the tires, it doesn't really much matter...and the worst part is, while they need to redesign the chassis, how the .... do you redesign a chassis when you have literally no ....... idea what the tires will be a year from now, let alone a month from now?

Instead the tires look like they were designed as much with the M1 in mind as the M1 was designed with the Michelin tires in mind. Sure things haven't gone smoothly for either rider every race weekend, but in year 2 of the Michelin experiment, it's the only bike that seems to handle the tires predictably every weekend.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Originally, during pre-season testing there was one approval of this tyre from one rider just as the lobbying for its reintroduction originated from the same camp. This snowballed into a vote which has once more witnessed a change of tyre construction mid-season - however far from being predicated upon safety, this is entirely about rider preference (or originally, one rider in particular's preference). The ramifications of this for the sport, irrespective of the original motivations for its reappraisal are manifest. However, in this case, the powerful force influencing this change is also of grave significance for not only the future integrity but the very probity of the sport. Whether or not they benefit from the change, are you really suggesting that say Crutchlow or even Márquez could have similarly successfully petitioned for this vote far less even persuaded 'fix-elin' to entertain the notion of a mothballed #70 carcass?

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Redding "voted" on the ultimatum "vote". Though qualified his "vote" this way:

"It's a [yellow] pinch full of people that wanted the tire to change, it wasn't 70% of the field."

"So really it's unfair in a way that there are people who have power and people that decide which way things go. And in the end you can't change it, so in the end there's 'no point fighting against it, you're better off joining it.' But it's the same as anything. When someone has a lot of power in a certain sport, they use it to their advantage."

Isn't democracy grand?

Hack Oxley:

"At Le Mans a 'vote' was taken..."

"20 riders 'voted' to switch to the 70 and only 3 voted to keep the 06."

(Let's forget all about the 23 to 1 VOTE. That's so yesterday man).

In case my readers can't read between the lines, let me spell it out for everyone, because I just think my point is far too subtle:

"In other words, THIS IS NOT A ROSSI DEAL, as many social media conspiracy theorists would have it." Hack Oxley

Democracy 101.46: nullify previous votes, vote vote again until it yields the desired result.

Ultimatums are "choices" right?

Jumkie said:

Redding "voted" on the ultimatum "vote". Though qualified his "vote" this way:

"It's a [yellow] pinch full of people that wanted the tire to change, it wasn't 70% of the field."

"So really it's unfair in a way that there are people who have power and people that decide which way things go. And in the end you can't change it, so in the end there's 'no point fighting against it, you're better off joining it.' But it's the same as anything. When someone has a lot of power in a certain sport, they use it to their advantage."

Isn't democracy grand?

Hack Oxley:

"At Le Mans a 'vote' was taken..."

"20 riders 'voted' to switch to the 70 and only 3 voted to keep the 06."

(Let's forget all about the 23 to 1 VOTE. That's so yesterday man).

In case my readers can't read between the lines, let me spell it out for everyone, because I just think my point is far too subtle:

"In other words, THIS IS NOT A ROSSI DEAL, as many social media conspiracy theorists would have it." Hack Oxley

Democracy 101.46: nullify previous votes, vote vote again until it yields the desired result.

Ultimatums are "choices" right?

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Reminds me of some votes I've had to be a part of in my professional life where you vote a certain way because you're not interested in committing career suicide, or being seen as "not a team player" in spite of being opposed to whatever the voting subject is.

JPSLotus said:

Reminds me of some votes I've had to be a part of in my professional life where you vote a certain way because you're not interested in committing career suicide, or being seen as "not a team player" in spite of being opposed to whatever the voting subject is.

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Rossi's next book should be titled "What if they hadn't change it". It would be a be facinating read on the machinations and changes that have taken place since the SNS were finally banned.

povol said:

Rossi's next book should be titled "What if they hadn't change it". It would be a be facinating read on the machinations and changes that have taken place since the SNS were finally banned.

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Had SNS tires never been banned, I do wonder what the 800cc era would have looked like.

JPSLotus said:

Had SNS tires never been banned, I do wonder what the 800cc era would have looked like.

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......... with better tires.

Personally, I think Bridgestone would have outclassed them, SNSs or not.

JPSLotus said:

Had SNS tires never been banned, I do wonder what the 800cc era would have looked like.

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Stoner domination.