Michelin® Australian Motorcycle GP 2016 Nicky Hayden extravaganza with spoilers

The super soft tire shouldn't have any issues going full race distance in cool conditions on a completely soaked track. The issue seems to be Michelin wanting to be extra cautious because of what happened at Brno. However, the issues at Brno were because the track was drying and the track temperature was much warmer there which is why we saw some failures. Rossi said his super soft front tire still looked brand new after FP1. The super soft does appear to be the right tire for PI if it's cool and raining.

But if Michelin are saying no more than 10 laps then essentially the tyre cannot be used for a full race as it will require 2 pit stops to change tyres (laps 10 and 20 of the 27 lap race)

Alternately, in a flag to flag you are not allowed to rejoin the race on a bike with the same tyre combination, thus you will or may be able to use it from laps 1 - 10 then 21-27 only.

Either way, it is the 10 lap stipulation of Michelin renders the tyres useless, as to change their recommendation now is to disadvantage those that have not used the tyre (changing the recommendation for Sepang however is not an issue if changed prior to the weekend).

How the tyre was when coming off Rossi's bike is also in some way mute as we have seen many times this year already that tyre degradation has varied dramatically between riders on equal or same machinery (setting of course should or could cause minor variance)

Gaz said:

IMO only, but I wonder if it is a pure test tyre (unofficially) with the restriction in place to try to severely limit the use in race conditions for 2016 (2017 however?)

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Possible. But a whole lot of effort on the chance of wet conditions.

More Gifs

The longer version of Vinale's f'up - https://streamable.com/fcs0

Bautista, Rabat (not listening to the advice offered by forum members) and Bradl falls - https://streamable.com/orel

Barbedwirebikerr said:

Possible. But a whole lot of effort on the chance of wet conditions.

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Agreed but if they have had the tyre with them for a few races then not really in terms that if they have the tyre, why not use it so to speak.

Guess we can postulate all we want until they say why they bought a tyre that they suspect would not last

Michelin saying no more than 10 laps is simply because they're scared and are making things more complicated than need be. If the track isn't cold and soaked, then restrict the number of laps for the super soft can be used or don't allow them at all. If there is a constant downpour with cool conditions, the super soft is fine for full race distance. It's that simple.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

moto vudu said:

Michelin saying no more than 10 laps is simply because they're scared and are making things more complicated than need be. If the track isn't cold and soaked, then restrict the number of laps for the super soft can be used or don't allow them at all. If there is a constant downpour with cool conditions, the super soft is fine for full race distance. It's that simple.

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You may think so but no it isn't when Michelin have already declared that the tyre should be used for no more than 10 laps (afterall, to now remove that recommendation is unfair to Rossi who was penalised).

Yes it can be simple for Sepang but for PI, it is stuck the way it is but there is also no guarantee that the tyre is safe around PI for 27 laps as obviously Michelin have doubts and thus RD have doubts.

Rossi only did 10 laps and we have already seen this year that tyres can look brilliant on lap 13 but on lap 14 they can be decidely second hand (my paraphrasing on the laps) so to me, doubt is doubt.

In saying that though, I have not seen anything from Michelin as to why they say the tyres can only be used for a maximum of 10 laps - nowhere have I seen any comment as to in which way the tyre will degrade (ie. wear, increase of delamination, tyre popping etc) so IMO, they need to state why as well.

Gaz said:

You may think so but no it isn't when Michelin have already declared that the tyre should be used for no more than 10 laps (afterall, to now remove that recommendation is unfair to Rossi who was penalised).

Yes it can be simple for Sepang but for PI, it is stuck the way it is but there is also no guarantee that the tyre is safe around PI for 27 laps as obviously Michelin have doubts and thus RD have doubts.

Rossi only did 10 laps and we have already seen this year that tyres can look brilliant on lap 13 but on lap 14 they can be decidely second hand (my paraphrasing on the laps) so to me, doubt is doubt.

In saying that though, I have not seen anything from Michelin as to why they say the tyres can only be used for a maximum of 10 laps - nowhere have I seen any comment as to in which way the tyre will degrade (ie. wear, increase of delamination, tyre popping etc) so IMO, they need to state why as well.

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Goubert (Michelin Technical Director) went on to explain the extra soft front could complete 30 laps – a view shared by Rossi - if conditions were similar to Friday, a day in which FP2 was cancelled due to incessant, driving rain and near-icy temperatures.

However, due to the tyre's history, and several riders' experiences in the race at Brno, a cautious approach was the best means of working toward a safe race.

“The thing is if the conditions stay as they were this morning for sure you can do 30 laps. But the situation is with the single tyre maker rule and the habits which they take, either you bring tyres which can do a full race distance or a given number of laps and you tell them and put that in the regulation, or you don't do everything.”

"I did a very good lap time, but unfortunately they cancelled my lap time," Rossi said. "I wanted to use the super-soft in the front because I know that tyre and think it is a good tyre for today because it is only ten degrees.

Returning to the lap-limit, Rossi admitted to being confused by the need to restrict track time on the extra-soft front.

"For me is very strange, because it would be a good tyre for the [wet] race. But Michelin is worried because in Brno this tyre had a problem. But in Brno it was 25-degrees on the ground and coming dry.

"Here is the place for the super soft. If it's not here, you never use it. In fact I did my run, very good, I stopped with a good lap time and you look at the tyre - is new. So for me is also dangerous to go with the soft [rather than extra-soft]."

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Michelin is being extra cautious and imposed a 10-lap limit on a tire even if the tire is used in the conditions it was designed for and can last for 30 laps!

moto vudu said:

Goubert (Michelin Technical Director) went on to explain the extra soft front could complete 30 laps – a view shared by Rossi - if conditions were similar to Friday, a day in which FP2 was cancelled due to incessant, driving rain and near-icy temperatures.

However, due to the tyre's history, and several riders' experiences in the race at Brno, a cautious approach was the best means of working toward a safe race.

“The thing is if the conditions stay as they were this morning for sure you can do 30 laps. But the situation is with the single tyre maker rule and the habits which they take, either you bring tyres which can do a full race distance or a given number of laps and you tell them and put that in the regulation, or you don't do everything.”





Michelin is being extra cautious and imposed a 10-lap limit on a tire even if the tire is used in the conditions it was designed for and can last for 30 laps!

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Ta MV.

That just shows that Michelin f'ed up by making the statement as then it forces RD's hand somewhat as RD cannot allow a piece of equipment to be used where the manufacturer raises concerns/suspicions.

Yes, you and Michelin may well argue that it is a tyre designed for specific conditions, but one persons super soft requirement may be another person's harder option requirement. Or the conditions could well change and if RD allowed the tyre to be used only to have the track start to dry for the last 7 or so laps where most riders will not pit but will instead take the punt - risk of failures increases, thus they had no choice once the statement was made.

NH fastest in FP4.

All stores in Cali sold out of tissues.

Gaz said:

Ta MV.

That just shows that Michelin f'ed up by making the statement as then it forces RD's hand somewhat as RD cannot allow a piece of equipment to be used where the manufacturer raises concerns/suspicions.

Yes, you and Michelin may well argue that it is a tyre designed for specific conditions, but one persons super soft requirement may be another person's harder option requirement. Or the conditions could well change and if RD allowed the tyre to be used only to have the track start to dry for the last 7 or so laps where most riders will not pit but will instead take the punt - risk of failures increases, thus they had no choice once the statement was made.

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RD can make pitting mandatory if a rider is on super softs and the track starts to dry.

Dr No said:

NH fastest in FP4.

All stores in Cali sold out of tissues.

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I would have thought that Jums would shop online

moto vudu said:

RD can make pitting mandatory if a rider is on super softs and the track starts to dry.

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Not necessarily as there is no drying track flag (remember that there is a flag that can be used to indicate flag to flag) and thus RD have no way of notifying the riders that there is now a requirement to pit due to a drying track (as we know, pit boards may not be read).

Plus you have the definition of what constitutes a drying track as is it no rain, no water pools, no streams of water, a dry line?

What if the dry line is between turns 1 to 4 but then not through the hayshed and RD have mandated a pit stop to change to less ideal tyres?

Nope, once they start they can declare wet (and thus flag to flag) but it is significantly harder to reverse to a drying track and thus mandate a pit stop once the track is drying (would actually be better to red flag it, wait 20 minutes then restart)

For posterity and jums

Nicky tops FP4 (has NH topped any WSBK sessions as I seem to recall he has - wonder when the last time a rider topped a WSBK and Moto GP session was)


Pos. Num. Rider Nation Team Bike Km/h Time Gap 1st/Prev.
1 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Repsol Honda Team Honda 311.8 1'36.810
2 93 Marc MARQUEZ SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 302.9 1'40.031 3.221 / 3.221
3 41 Aleix ESPARGARO SPA Team SUZUKI ECSTAR Suzuki 306.5 1'40.971 4.161 / 0.940
4 76 Loris BAZ FRA Avintia Racing Ducati 299.0 1'40.973 4.163 / 0.002
5 43 Jack MILLER AUS Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS Honda 301.0 1'41.092 4.282 / 0.119
6 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR LCR Honda Honda 301.8 1'41.199 4.389 / 0.107
7 45 Scott REDDING GBR OCTO Pramac Yakhnich Ducati 290.4 1'41.482 4.672 / 0.283
8 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Ducati Team Ducati 318.6 1'41.648 4.838 / 0.166
9 38 Bradley SMITH GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 299.3 1'41.825 5.015 / 0.177
10 9 Danilo PETRUCCI ITA OCTO Pramac Yakhnich Ducati 311.6 1'41.880 5.070 / 0.055
11 99 Jorge LORENZO SPA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP Yamaha 299.1 1'42.112 5.302 / 0.232
12 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ COL Pull & Bear Aspar Team Ducati 288.4 1'42.152 5.342 / 0.040
13 44 Pol ESPARGARO SPA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 309.4 1'42.225 5.415 / 0.073
14 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP Yamaha 309.2 1'42.226 5.416 / 0.001
15 8 Hector BARBERA SPA Ducati Team Ducati 305.3 1'42.916 6.106 / 0.690
16 6 Stefan BRADL GER Aprilia Racing Team Gresini Aprilia 281.6 1'43.019 6.209 / 0.103
17 7 Mike JONES AUS Avintia Racing Ducati 290.7 1'43.048 6.238 / 0.029
25 Maverick VIÑALES SPA Team SUZUKI ECSTAR Suzuki 316.8 1'43.821 7.011 / 0.773
50 Eugene LAVERTY IRL Pull & Bear Aspar Team Ducati 292.5 1'43.933 7.123 / 0.112
19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SPA Aprilia Racing Team Gresini Aprilia 285.1 1'44.411 7.601 / 0.478
53 Tito RABAT SPA Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS Honda 293.0 1'44.545 7.735 / 0.134



Now I wonder what will be said as JL finished in front of VR?

Then outqualifies him

Rossi doesn't make Q2

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.

How are the eyes going Jums?

Not tearing up due to the memories of Nicky topping charts and what that brings (as in, if only he had a supportive team for the career)?

QI results (bolded go to Q2)

1 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR LCR Honda Honda 308.6 1'38.467
2 99 Jorge LORENZO SPA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP Yamaha 304.6 1'40.452 1.985 / 1.985
3 25 Maverick VIÑALES SPA Team SUZUKI ECSTAR Suzuki 309.9 1'40.744 2.277 / 0.292
4 38 Bradley SMITH GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 298.6 1'41.129 2.662 / 0.385
5 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP Yamaha 307.8 1'41.368 2.901 / 0.239
6 50 Eugene LAVERTY IRL Pull & Bear Aspar Team Ducati 301.0 1'41.532 3.065 / 0.164
7 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ COL Pull & Bear Aspar Team Ducati 305.9 1'41.766 3.299 / 0.234
8 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SPA Aprilia Racing Team Gresini Aprilia 297.4 1'41.850 3.383 / 0.084
9 7 Mike JONES AUS Avintia Racing Ducati 295.8 1'42.261 3.794 / 0.411
10 76 Loris BAZ FRA Avintia Racing Ducati 302.8 1'43.128 4.661 / 0.867
11 53 Tito RABAT SPA Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS Honda 292.0 1'44.096 5.629 / 0.968


Again, good effort Mike who had again beaten his team mate and a beaten up Tito