Michelin® Australian Motorcycle GP 2016 Nicky Hayden extravaganza with spoilers

RCV600RR said:

He was with Bautista for most of the race, but made a mistake and lost time. Impressive.

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I noticed his riding position on the MotoGP bike looked old school ... reminded me a little of Doohan. Its 2016, we have hipsters everywhere ..... retro is in i guess!

So who thinks the riders would agree with the prevailing forum opinion that the Michelins were tailored for Vale? I think most of the grid are pleased as .... that the Bridgestone 3 or 4 riders win era is over...

Mick D said:

So who thinks the riders would agree with the prevailing forum opinion that the Michelins were tailored for Vale? I think most of the grid are pleased as .... that the Bridgestone 3 or 4 riders win era is over...

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Marc would be over the moon if that where true, imagine how fast he would be going when Rossi moves on and they are building the tyres for him.

Mick D said:

So who thinks the riders would agree with the prevailing forum opinion that the Michelins were tailored for Vale? I think most of the grid are pleased as .... that the Bridgestone 3 or 4 riders win era is over...

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For mine and yes this sounds (or reads) incredibly stupid but for me, I will wait until seasons end 2017 before I judge success or otherwise of the tyres as this year we also have the new electronics and some teams still getting engine concessions.

Yes to have so many winners is fantastic but for me, is this year an anomoly or a sign of the future (and none of this should be read as a naysayer)?

Gaz said:

For mine and yes this sounds (or reads) incredibly stupid but for me, I will wait until seasons end 2017 before I judge success or otherwise of the tyres as this year we also have the new electronics and some teams still getting engine concessions.

Yes to have so many winners is fantastic but for me, is this year an anomoly or a sign of the future (and none of this should be read as a naysayer)?

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Absolutely an anomaly, obviously the electrics are part of the deal, but do you, Gaz, believe that DORNA is cooking the rubber in Vale's favour as has been widely speculated here?

Mick D said:

Absolutely an anomaly, obviously the electrics are part of the deal, but do you, Gaz, believe that DORNA is cooking the rubber in Vale's favour as has been widely speculated here?

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Nope and for me, the way the year has panned (VR has been un-VR like in terms of his consistency throughout the year) out would seem to support that.

IMO only, but they have not got enough recent experience in the sport to even consider basing their tyre construction on one rider as by the time they had their construction sorted, the tracks and environments would have likely changed so much that the tyre may well be outside the operational aspects.

Now that is not to say that Michelin may not take heed of Rossi's style/data just as they would for Marquez and others to try to determine the best tyre that can be built, but nope I do not think that it is a deliberate 'build tyre for VR' year (although I personally want full tyre competition back and allowance of SNS)

Mick D said:

So who thinks the riders would agree with the prevailing forum opinion that the Michelins were tailored for Vale? I think most of the grid are pleased as .... that the Bridgestone 3 or 4 riders win era is over...

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I, for one, don't think that Michelin have been making tyres deliberately that suit Rossi. Valentino* is the only rider that has ridden with Michelin's before but that was all of 10 years ago and it may have given him a marginal advantage first off but it is obvious to me that the other riders have come up to speed very quickly. The only one who appears to struggle is Lorenzo at times but whether it is him or the bike or a combination of both I don't know.

Way back when Motogp moved to a control tyre, Michelin said they weren't interested as they wanted competition. I reckon they still want the competition so they are "competing" with Bridgestone in terms of beating their fastest laps from last year so they continue to push the envelope and in years to come they will want to compete with their previous record from last year. God forbid we go down the route F1 has chosen with Pirelli of deliberately making bad tyres to make a better show.

*Did Lorenzo or Dovi ride with them?

Gaz said:

Nope and for me, the way the year has panned (VR has been un-VR like in terms of his consistency throughout the year) out would seem to support that.

IMO only, but they have not got enough recent experience in the sport to even consider basing their tyre construction on one rider as by the time they had their construction sorted, the tracks and environments would have likely changed so much that the tyre may well be outside the operational aspects.

Now that is not to say that Michelin may not take heed of Rossi's style/data just as they would for Marquez and others to try to determine the best tyre that can be built, but nope I do not think that it is a deliberate 'build tyre for VR' year (although I personally want full tyre competition back and allowance of SNS)

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Not sure if i want the SNS tyres to come back though. I know many people would disagree with me here but I kinda like the standardised ECU's and the control tyres. Whether it was a direct result of this years changes, just a symptom of the first year of a major rule change or the amount of wet weather this year ... the series has been really fun to watch this year and the mix of winners has been a nice change.

I do still think it is a bit to early to call though, will need to see if this continues next season or if things just revert back to how they have been. It is a development series too and standardised electronics don't seem to promote that aspect but to be honest I'm not a huge fan of electronics, as much as they have become a necessity these days. I'd much rather see the the bikes being developed to be faster by more advanced mechanical engineering rather than teams outdoing each other with more and more advanced electronics. Much of the technology developed for racing filters down to the consumer which is great, the huge increase in advanced electronics available now to the consumer on production models sort of indicates where all the development in racing of late has being focused.

I see having an open tyre rule simply being exploited by the teams that can afford too unless the rules around there use are well thought out and policed.

I think DORNA have brought in the rules changes this year to try and reign in and better balance costs, development with good close racing. If racing development filters down to the consumer than I'd much prefer they opened the rules up on engine configurations, engine capacity, forced induction and minimum bike weight. I'd like to see the rules change to encourage manufacturers to build bikes with dry weights of 120kg with greater power to weight ratios rather than to let teams gain an advantage by spending more than the next guy on tyres.

valerian said:

I, for one, don't think that Michelin have been making tyres deliberately that suit Rossi. Valentino* is the only rider that has ridden with Michelin's before but that was all of 10 years ago and it may have given him a marginal advantage first off but it is obvious to me that the other riders have come up to speed very quickly. The only one who appears to struggle is Lorenzo at times but whether it is him or the bike or a combination of both I don't know.

Way back when Motogp moved to a control tyre, Michelin said they weren't interested as they wanted competition. I reckon they still want the competition so they are "competing" with Bridgestone in terms of beating their fastest laps from last year so they continue to push the envelope and in years to come they will want to compete with their previous record from last year. God forbid we go down the route F1 has chosen with Pirelli of deliberately making bad tyres to make a better show.

*Did Lorenzo or Dovi ride with them?

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Yes, Lorenzo 07 & 08, Dovi 08.

michaelm said:

Perhaps a fair point about the track temperatures

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AJV80 said:

Fair point i suppose.

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frizzle said:

I think they have a fair point.

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Fair points.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Fair points.

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Point taken:spin:

valerian said:

I, for one, don't think that Michelin have been making tyres deliberately that suit Rossi. Valentino* is the only rider that has ridden with Michelin's before but that was all of 10 years ago and it may have given him a marginal advantage first off but it is obvious to me that the other riders have come up to speed very quickly. The only one who appears to struggle is Lorenzo at times but whether it is him or the bike or a combination of both I don't know.

Way back when Motogp moved to a control tyre, Michelin said they weren't interested as they wanted competition. I reckon they still want the competition so they are "competing" with Bridgestone in terms of beating their fastest laps from last year so they continue to push the envelope and in years to come they will want to compete with their previous record from last year. God forbid we go down the route F1 has chosen with Pirelli of deliberately making bad tyres to make a better show.

*Did Lorenzo or Dovi ride with them?

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Dani, and Lorenzo in 2008. Who was Dovi with before HRC? I think Gresini went to Bridgestone before the control tyre.

I had my suspicions about Ezy going the F1 Pirelli route, he openly talked about it at one stage. Hopefully that was put on the back burner like the idea of having F1 style pit stops, rather shelved after PI 2013.

michaelm said:

Dani, and Lorenzo in 2008. Who was Dovi with before HRC? I think Gresini went to Bridgestone before the control tyre.

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Dovi came up through the feeder classes and into Moto GP with Team Scot Honda prior to the Repsol ride.

Mick D said:

Absolutely an anomaly, obviously the electrics are part of the deal, but do you, Gaz, believe that DORNA is cooking the rubber in Vale's favour as has been widely speculated here?

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Its beginning to sound like you subscribe to the "Conspiracy conspiracy" theory ...... as do I.

michaelm said:

Dani, and Lorenzo in 2008. Who was Dovi with before HRC? I think Gresini went to Bridgestone before the control tyre.

I had my suspicions about Ezy going the F1 Pirelli route, he openly talked about it at one stage. Hopefully that was put on the back burner like the idea of having F1 style pit stops, rather shelved after PI 2013.

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Dovi was with JIR Scot Honda team before going to Repsol.

Gaz said:

Nope and for me, the way the year has panned (VR has been un-VR like in terms of his consistency throughout the year) out would seem to support that.

IMO only, but they have not got enough recent experience in the sport to even consider basing their tyre construction on one rider as by the time they had their construction sorted, the tracks and environments would have likely changed so much that the tyre may well be outside the operational aspects.

Now that is not to say that Michelin may not take heed of Rossi's style/data just as they would for Marquez and others to try to determine the best tyre that can be built, but nope I do not think that it is a deliberate 'build tyre for VR' year (although I personally want full tyre competition back and allowance of SNS)

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The only way that should be allowed is if the same number of races took place in Asia as races in Europe. I love the tire wars, but keep that SNS .... where it belongs, out of the sport. Even if it were my favorite rider that benefitted, i want no part of it again

Daniboy said:

Yes, Lorenzo 07 & 08, Dovi 08.

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Lorenzo's first year in GP was 08

Daniboy said:

Dovi was with JIR Scot Honda team before going to Repsol.

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I looked it up as well, had forgotten the name of the team but knew he was on a Honda privateer team. They were a Michelin team.

That was an incredible performance by Cal. I will have to admit, when Rossi took second, my heart sunk as i knew he would run Cal down and win the race. After a few laps, when it was apparent that Cal was just flat out bringing the heat, then i had to start worrying about him binning it. Disappointed in Marc, he had the race in the bag and there was no treason to push to the limit, but then again, maybe Cal runs him down/. No asterisk beside this one big boy, you just beat the best in the world on a dry track, well done. Was a little upset over Nicky but wtf, if you cant get away from the likes of Jack Miller on a factory bike, you are kind of asking for it. Smith did Redding a big favor at the line, but i think it will be to little to late. Vinales was impressive and i think next year will give Rossi fits after summer break. Rossi deserves second in championship as Lorenzo seems to have lost all interest and has really been the faster of the two for most of the season.In Moto 2, Zarco has been trying to give the title away and Lowes ans Rins just throw it back at him like its coated with small pox.Not impressed with either as i said earlier this year. Lowes is an accident waiting to happen, and Rins is a points racer who bins it when he tries to step up the pace.

Of course I'm going to congratulate Cal - ballsy ride brave choice. Controlled the race throughout.

However, not meaning to steal his thunder, I said this at Brno. If the M1 allowed the hard tyre choice, this race was probably Rossi's.

Those armchair experts that talk of Lorenzo's ailing confidence in cooler conditions and the wet have no clue. Valentino's style and set up attenuates the difficulty encountered by yamaha with the harder compound at certain circuits and conditions. Lorenzo's - to a certain extent - intransigent set up does not. Perhaps that's harsh, I should say that the narrower parameters that govern the setting of his bike does not accommodate or allow compromise and exacerbates the problems. Valentino was quite vocal about the fact that he was not prepared to push for wins on the Ducati. I would suggest that Lorenzo's inability to adapt means that he couldn't press even if he wanted to. Of course this has sapped him of confidence and to a degree there is a psychological toll.

I say again, if Rossi could have run the hard option today, I'm sure that he would have done and possibly would have stood on the top step. Nothing to do with ability or mentality - simply that today, he M1 did not allow him to. To a greater extent, it's been dong the same to Lorenzo all season.