Melandri IS done at Ducati.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jun 26 2008, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know you asked for a defense Jumkie but I've none.
Marco really seems to have hit the bottom and seems to lack the energy or motivation to get back on track.

The English version is not online yet but here's a bit of it...
As for the races there’s little to say...

Ducati I'm sure have done their best to help and he gets on well with Suppo, so 'quitting' isn't necessarily being a coward but simply doing the right thing by the team.
Thanks BG for the post and translation of the latest entry to his diary.

A couple thinks here, 1. Yeah, I think I may have been a bit harsh. I've toned down a bit about him 'quitting' but really, when a guy loses that much motivation, its hard to sugar coat it. To me the most interesting point you made was the "doing the right thing by the team" comment. I suppose, they have a good enough relationship (it seems) that Ducati may be hurt by this failed venture and may cause them more harm than good if he stays. So in that regard, he may be not 'quitting' in the classical sense (from a job) but rather a divorce that must happen.

2. His diary is painfully honest, and I both admire that and cringe at its openness. This is of course, a double edge sword. We get an honest glimpse, but some of that glimpse does reflect a man who has difficulty dealing with emotions (from previous posts). I say this because he sometimes goes back and tries to clean it up.

3. Yes, anybody who thinks he is no longer a good and capable rider is simply mistaken.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Jun 26 2008, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>marco is the most overated rider in motogp. cant beleive people still harp on about his handfull of races he won when rossi was on the shitbox yamaha and there was only hayden to contend with. hayden vs marco, marco the better rider.

marco and hayden vs the top 4 riders NOW, and marco is nothing!
I retract my earlier apology; the implication I drew was apparently correct. 5 motogp wins is more than most riders in history, let alone on a non-factory bike. More than garry mccoy, kevin magee or darryl beattie.
EDIT
Or troy bayliss for that matter. Do you dispute that he is a talented rider?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jun 26 2008, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A couple thinks here, 1. Yeah, I think I may have been a bit harsh. I've toned down a bit about him 'quitting' but really, when a guy loses that much motivation, its hard to sugar coat it.

Don't back down b/c his manager helped him craft a PR piece.

His feelings of anger towards the bike and the team have been evident from the get go. I'd go so far as to say, this mess started when they made him speak english in the pit box.

I also think Marco has an unrealistic perception of what it takes to win a WC. I think he's used to seeing people on better equipment "cruise" to victory while he works for a chance at the podium. When he watched Casey "cruise" to many easy victories, I'm sure he thought the same thing would happen for him.

I don't think he has any clue how hard you have to work to win a WC. All world champions have to work their ..... off. Rossi works efficiently and does most of the hard work on Sunday so his titles look effortless. Stoner uses some kind of mental technique to supersede the performance limitations of man and machine. He pushes himself harder with each passing lap. Hayden grinds day in and day out until he has absolutely nothing left to give. Marco has never come close to achieving a similar performance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jun 25 2008, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Travy, I don't think your're reading Sacky correctly. I think he is saying that he was in fact better than his results showed. I think he is making a case that Ducati wrongly thought that he was washed up and his mid-pack results were incorrectly ascertained to be a problem with the rider, not the bike. So he is saying, Ducati screwed up by letting him go. (Correct me if I'm wrong Sacky).

Spot on, thanks Jum.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Jun 26 2008, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Unfortunately people often take the wrong approach in trying to help , they tell you they're seeing you unhappy and that you're no longer convinced and things of that kind, and at that point if you have no problems they create them for you and convince you that you have them!
and again
When I first got onto that red bike I myself was the happiest man in the world, but I was never fast on it and I can assure you that in my head I was super hyped up!

I hope that he is talking about additional problems that arn't there, because he definitely has problems and if he wants to go around thinking that he doesn't, then he is the one that needs some medication.

Thanks for the post BG


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jun 26 2008, 06:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There's no such thing as an overrated rider in Grand Prix.

Marco and Nicky won races when GP bikes were meant for grown ups, 990cc was THE formula. Remember the days when you had to be careful when opening the throttle? When no matter how much TC you had, a 990 could still make you pay. My personal opinion is that all the TC riders have now coupled with a lowered capacity means that whacking open the throttle is a non-issue (speaking in relativity) whereas if you did that on a 990 or 500 you were going to find yourself on your backside.

Put some of these kids on 990s and I don't think they would find the instant success like they have on the 800s.

I really have'nt heard anyone, riders/fans/teams/managers, anybody out there saying they like this formula. Someone please find me a quote from someone saying that they prefer the 800cc bikes. Maybe Pedrosa ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 26 2008, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Don't back down b/c his manager helped him craft a PR piece.

His feelings of anger towards the bike and the team have been evident from the get go. I'd go so far as to say, this mess started when they made him speak english in the pit box.

I also think Marco has an unrealistic perception of what it takes to win a WC. I think he's used to seeing people on better equipment "cruise" to victory while he works for a chance at the podium. When he watched Casey "cruise" to many easy victories, I'm sure he thought the same thing would happen for him.

I don't think he has any clue how hard you have to work to win a WC. All world champions have to work their ..... off. Rossi works efficiently and does most of the hard work on Sunday so his titles look effortless. Stoner uses some kind of mental technique to supersede the performance limitations of man and machine. He pushes himself harder with each passing lap. Hayden grinds day in and day out until he has absolutely nothing left to give. Marco has never come close to achieving a similar performance.

Ha ha now that's cynicism re: PR piece.

As for unrealistic perception of what it takes to win a WC........... I'm sorry but he's been in the game long enough to understand exactly what is expected of him. The fact is sometimes the team doesn't gel and I really do think that in his case he has been not just a vicitm but a part of a team not gelling. Riding styles are different and unique to each rider, to say that because Hayden grinds day in and day out and Marco doesn't and that is why he is not achieving anything doesn't explain anything. That's the way Hayden does it, Marco does it differently, doesn't mean its wrong.

I for one did say he had no business being on the ducati with such poor results but now I've changed my opinion totally, he doesn't get on with the bike he needs to find a different one......a case of .... or get off the pot.

XX Liz

I am curious to know how many time Melandri has crashed this year? This can be anytime that he has taken to the track. Anybody?

The plot THICKENS

LINK

Ducati confirm additional Mugello test with Gibernau

Thursday, 26 June 2008

Ducati´s MotoGP project director Livio Suppo has told motogp.com that Sete Gibernau is set for another test with the Italian brand next week.

Former Ducati MotoGP rider Sete Gibernau has been lined-up for another test with the World Champions at their chosen testing venue of Mugello next week.

Having not sampled a MotoGP bike since his retirement from riding for Ducati in the premier class in October 2006, following meetings in his native Barcelona on the Catalunya GP weekend Gibernau successfully completed a three-day test last week at Mugello, where he rode the Desmosedici GP9.

Livio Suppo, Ducati MotoGP project director, said of Gibernau´s additional, forthcoming test opportunity, `He will be on track again at Mugello again from 1st-3rd July. As we said after the first test we were happy and we were thinking about doing something else, so here we are.´

When pressed on the subject of whether the 35 year-old Spaniard might be lined up for a sensational return to racing this season Suppo replied, `At the moment there is still no plan. Of course the situation is not easy, everyone knows what we are talking about, with Marco (Melandri). But at the moment I still believe Marco can do it and the next two races are at Sachsenring and Laguna where he has always done well.´

`He was struggling with the 800cc Honda last year and then at Sachsenring and Laguna he did very well, so I think we should wait and see if he can find a solution at a circuit he likes.´

No one can say Ducati isn't trying.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jun 26 2008, 07:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>There's no such thing as an overrated rider in Grand Prix.

Oh? Well Tom must have not got that memo, he thinks Kevin Schwantz is "overrated".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jun 26 2008, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh? Well Tom must have not got that memo, he thinks Kevin Schwantz is "overrated".

Anyone who thinks that should be BEATEN with a motorcycle chain

You gotten give Ducati credit. They are willing to do anything to get to Rossi. Even if it means hiring a 35 year old who hasn't raced in nearly 2 years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 26 2008, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I also think Marco has an unrealistic perception of what it takes to win a WC. I think he's used to seeing people on better equipment "cruise" to victory while he works for a chance at the podium.


of course he does, what with winning a 250cc WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.....

do your homework before slinging your .... around, that way you dont end up stinking as well..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jun 26 2008, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>of course he does, what with winning a 250cc WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.....

do your homework before slinging your .... around, that way you dont end up stinking as well..



I'm sorry, let me rephrase my statement so we can stop playing games with semantics.

Melandri doesn't know what it takes to win a REAL WC.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 26 2008, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry, let me rephrase my statement so we can stop playing games with semantics.

Melandri doesn't know what it takes to win a REAL WC.

So according to you MotoGP is the only "REAL WC" seeing as 250cc are in many peoples eyes the second best/talented enriched world championship in motorcycle racing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 26 2008, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You gotten give Ducati credit. They are willing to do anything to get to Rossi. Even if it means hiring a 35 year old who hasn't raced in nearly 2 years.
Don't think they need Gibernau's input to "get to Rossi".

Think that Stoner's got that taped without other rider input now that he's got the electronics/engine setup the way he likes them.

Allegedly he's using some 07 engine parts, the 08 chassis and the 09 electronics, but whatever it is that bike is looking a lot more stable with him on it than earlier in the year.

Agree with many others on here that Melandri is struggling to find the form that he has already proved he has. As michaelm said - 5 wins on satellite machinery over the years is pretty much unprecedented.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 26 2008, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry, let me rephrase my statement so we can stop playing games with semantics.

Melandri doesn't know what it takes to win a REAL WC.
Yeah, there's clearly more difficulty involved in winning the class that riders aspire to than winning the class than most of the best get snatched away from in their prime (or before they reach it) to race in the premier class. There's a certain amount of talent dilution that occurs when significant numbers of the best riders get plucked away to race elsewhere.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 26 2008, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sorry, let me rephrase my statement so we can stop playing games with semantics.

Melandri doesn't know what it takes to win a REAL WC.

ok, lets see why a 250 title isnt "real" then.

1. less power
2. less "prestige" amongst some people, based largely on where they are from.
3. apparently easier to ride because of point 1 and the largely clueless guesses of certain people.

hmmm, struggling to find more reasons...

why a 250 title is "real"

1. a unique riding style is required, just as with the bigger class needs one.
2. bikes are a real ..... to set up and are less forgiving of bad setup. the bigger class had excess power to mask a poor setup, a 250 does not.
3. pressure to win is just as great, largely due to a 250 title being one of the best ways to advertise
a riders credentials.
4 much bigger grids, leading to a larger pool of riders to battle against/fight through when mistakes are made.

see? just as many things to overcome as the big class, only different.

now wipe the predjudice out your eyes and run along...

muppet...........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Jun 26 2008, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>ok, lets see why a 250 title isnt "real" then.

1. less power
2. less "prestige" amongst some people, based largely on where they are from.
3. apparently easier to ride because of point 1 and the largely clueless guesses of certain people.

hmmm, struggling to find more reasons...

why a 250 title is "real"

1. a unique riding style is required, just as with the bigger class needs one.
2. bikes are a real ..... to set up and are less forgiving of bad setup. the bigger class had excess power to mask a poor setup, a 250 does not.
3. pressure to win is just as great, largely due to a 250 title being one of the best ways to advertise
a riders credentials.
4 much bigger grids, leading to a larger pool of riders to battle against/fight through when mistakes are made.

see? just as many things to overcome as the big class, only different.

now wipe the predjudice out your eyes and run along...

muppet...........
good post

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haga @ Jun 26 2008, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So according to you MotoGP is the only "REAL WC" seeing as 250cc are in many peoples eyes the second best/talented enriched world championship in motorcycle racing.
The problem is that the most talented riders get plucked away. Yeah, lots of talent runs through 250s, but would Melandri have been a champion that year on a grid filled with Kato, Jacque, Rossi, Capirossi, Biaggi (the 5 previous champs)? He certainly didn't jump up and dominate the premier class - the four who didn't die in his first premier class year all beat him that season, and all except Jacque did the following year. The 2 left in GP did in 2006. Rossi has every year. There's just too much rider movement to the premier class for 250s to be anywhere near as "real" of a world championship.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Jun 26 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The problem is that the most talented riders get plucked away. Yeah, lots of talent runs through 250s, but would Melandri have been a champion that year on a grid filled with Kato, Jacque, Rossi, Capirossi, Biaggi (the 5 previous champs)? He certainly didn't jump up and dominate the premier class - the four who didn't die in his first premier class year all beat him that season, and all except Jacque did the following year. The 2 left in GP did in 2006. Rossi has every year. There's just too much rider movement to the premier class for 250s to be anywhere near as "real" of a world championship.

Yes. This is what I'm trying to say in a confrontational and uncouth manner.

250 isn't even the premier class in it's racing hierarchy. There are many great riders in 250, but many of them are not great yet.