MCN claims valentino rossi rides the M1 next season!

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Going to Yamaha has two big problems for Valentino;

What if Rossi gets on the Yamaha and still runs 5th - 6th

What if Rossi leaves Duc, and they hire some young gun who makes the Ducati work in its current shape, after Rossi / JB couldn't.

Legacy tainted.



Whats the better option for Rossi - pay cut and stay at Ducati with Nicky, where everyone believes the Ducati is ...., or go to Yamaha as Jorge's ....., where everyone knows the bike is good.

Without taking anything away from Rossi's legacy, or his undisputed greatest ever status, I think Rossi has lost it (that last 1 - 2%), and I don't think he will consistently run at the front on any bike (age, injury, Marco's death, motivation, whatever). For the sake of good racing I hope I am wrong.

IMHO, whoever Rossi rides for in 2013 will be looking for the commercial benefit in having Rossi more than race wins. Yamaha will not want Rossi to take wins away from Jorge, they will only want him to upset Pedro and Marky Mark. After 2011 - 2012, Ducati would be brave to expect Rossi to win races on the Duc in 2013.



And PS.... IMO Ducati's sales have increased because they are great looking bikes that are seen as being exotic. Not because Stoner, Rossi or Hayden. They look good, feel good and sound good. I understand from the local Duc dealer that Ducati sales have not dropped in Australia (second biggest Ducati market behind the US) after Stoner left.

If I was going to buy a sport bike, I would prefer a 1198 or Panagale over an R1 or CBR every day.
 
Mr Squiggle said:
Hehe GayFL....thats not bad!



Friday nights game between Hawthorn and Geelong was as exciting a sports spectacle as you would ever see. And I hardly think AFL's popularity is limited to Melbourne only.
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You're right. I think we have those vicious attack birds, the Swans. Much prefer league/union. The only AFL game I ever watch is the grand final and they stuffed me up the other year... when they played the damn thing twice.
 
woody996 said:
You're right. I think we have those vicious attack birds, the Swans. Much prefer league/union. The only AFL game I ever watch is the grand final and they stuffed me up the other year... when they played the damn thing twice.
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I think it really depends on what you are bought up watching as to what you will enjoy as a spectator....



Swannies are looking good this year though....I would be happy for them to win the flag. Anyone but Carlton or Collingwood hehe.
 
Nuts said:
Going to Yamaha has two big problems for Valentino;

What if Rossi gets on the Yamaha and still runs 5th - 6th

What if Rossi leaves Duc, and they hire some young gun who makes the Ducati work in its current shape, after Rossi / JB couldn't.

Legacy tainted.



Whats the better option for Rossi - pay cut and stay at Ducati with Nicky, where everyone believes the Ducati is ...., or go to Yamaha as Jorge's ....., where everyone knows the bike is good.

Without taking anything away from Rossi's legacy, or his undisputed greatest ever status, I think Rossi has lost it (that last 1 - 2%), and I don't think he will consistently run at the front on any bike (age, injury, Marco's death, motivation, whatever). For the sake of good racing I hope I am wrong.

IMHO, whoever Rossi rides for in 2013 will be looking for the commercial benefit in having Rossi more than race wins. Yamaha will not want Rossi to take wins away from Jorge, they will only want him to upset Pedro and Marky Mark. After 2011 - 2012, Ducati would be brave to expect Rossi to win races on the Duc in 2013.



And PS.... IMO Ducati's sales have increased because they are great looking bikes that are seen as being exotic. Not because Stoner, Rossi or Hayden. They look good, feel good and sound good. I understand from the local Duc dealer that Ducati sales have not dropped in Australia (second biggest Ducati market behind the US) after Stoner left.

If I was going to buy a sport bike, I would prefer a 1198 or Panagale over an R1 or CBR every day.
Click to expand...



Why should Rossi's legacy be "tainted" in case he doesn't win any more? After a very serious accident, at age 34 now, he's declining. He's no more 20 or 25, he's no more unscathed. He has won a lot already. Not to mention Sic etc. The truth is that he should probably have retired already, but riders rarely acknowledge it. That's all. Sometimes people who dislike Rossi still seem to consider him a god, just like his fans who faithfully wait for his resurrection: in this case a god should be all-powerful for all time, or he's a fake. In both cases, there is a flawed premise.



BTW I agree with what you say about Ducati production bikes.
 
Mr Squiggle said:
Well the whole Rossi to Yam is bollocks at this stage.....If he decides to stick it out with Ducati, do everything possible to get them competitive rather than quitting it would a massive feather in his cap and a MUCH better outcome for MGP.



If he was to do that I would give him full credit and have far more respect for the guy. I may even concede he is the GOAT after all.



I will say one thing for you Roger.....you have recently given Stoner full credit when it has been deserved. And that is worthy of some praise as previously all you ever did was make excuses as to why he was successful.....now if only we can get Talps to do the same before he retires
<
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I don't think Rossi going to yam is bollocks at this stage, i was under the impression its been reported as a signed and sealed deal. Your second point about him having a greater feather in his cap his he stayed and fixed the ductati ,that's something we both agree on. I have been consistent in this opinion throughout many powerslide threads.



As for giving stoner credit where due, i have always done so but admit i do love to jump on him when he is being a ..... I love it not so much to bag on him but more his over patriotic star struck fans who insist on giving him a free pass no matter what and get their pants in a twist with anyone who doesn't follow there party line. As i recall i was pretty much the only person sticking up for stoner in 2006 as threads here will prove if you can be bothered or motivated to search. Where were all there stoner neo bopper fans back then, when he wasn't winning????
<
 
Mr Squiggle said:
Matrix 2



Gross: $742,128,461 (Worldwide) (25 November 2011)



Wall Street2

O

Gross: $52,474,616 (USA) (19 December 2010)



Tron Legacy



Gross: $400,062,763 (Worldwide) (1 May 2011)



Terminator Salvation



Gross: $371,353,001 (Worldwide) (28 July 2012)





Hardly what you could call "failed to sell cinema tickets".........



And it is the cumulative effect of all that POSITIVE exposure over a sustained period that has helped raise their profile....in the same way product placement has helped Apple become the dominant force it is today.....denying this hardly helps your credibility.



My point was (and again you failed to grasp a simple concept) is that it is speculative at best to say that ONE single factor has lead to their increase in sales whilst all other factors have had no effect and should be ignored.
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Now find the budgets of those movies, including marketing budget, & then tell me they were successful. Those figures are .... all worldwide, I doubt they even put them in the top 20 most successful movies of their respective years.



I think you are a fine one to be talking about hurt credibility after the horse .... in your last post. You seem very willing (speculatively?) to dismiss a single factor (Rossi) as a selling point that I'm not sure you grasp your own concept!



EDIT: After a little curious research it was indeed the poor showing in the years 2008 - 2010 that forced a heavier investment in 3D. Transformers 3 or whatever the .... it was called then raked in a billion dollars, a ....... billion dollars!!
 
Goatboy said:
Now find the budgets of those movies, including marketing budget, & then tell me they were successful. Those figures are .... all worldwide, I doubt they even put them in the top 20 most successful movies of their respective years.



I think you are a fine one to be talking about hurt credibility after the horse .... in your last post. You seem very willing (speculatively?) to dismiss a single factor (Rossi) as a selling point that I'm not sure you grasp your own concept!
Click to expand...



And now add in the number of people who have actually SEEN these movies outside ticket sales, legitimate or otherwise, and all of a sudden you are talking about billions of people.......with Ducati actively cultivating their image of "[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]great looking bikes that are seen as being exotic[/font]" (as Nuts points out quite correctly).



As stated Apple have used product placement as one of their primary marketing strategies over the past decade or so....but what would they know about marketing hey.....maybe they should give you a call and you can run their marketing department instead.



And what relevance has the movies budget got to do with the number of people viewing the end product? I will tell ya - zilch.



And who is dismissing Rossis influence on sales.....I am just "speculating" that maybe there are more factors to it than just VR which is what Talpa was and you seem to be suggesting...so take a deep breath and stop acting like a hysterical schoolgirl
<
 
Mr Squiggle said:
And now add in the number of people who have actually SEEN these movies outside ticket sales, legitimate or otherwise, and all of a sudden you are talking about billions of people.......with Ducati actively cultivating their image of "[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]great looking bikes that are seen as being exotic[/font]" (as Nuts points out quite correctly).



As stated Apple have used product placement as one of their primary marketing strategies over the past decade or so....but what would they know about marketing hey.....maybe they should give you a call and you can run their marketing department instead.



And what relevance has the movies budget got to do with the number of people viewing the end product? I will tell ya - zilch.



And who is dismissing Rossis influence on sales.....I am just "speculating" that maybe there are more factors to it than just VR which is what Talpa was and you seem to be suggesting...so take a deep breath and stop acting like a hysterical schoolgirl
<
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You're ....... cracked.
<




I just wanna know when I said product placement dosen't work?
<
 
Mr Squiggle said:
Good counter argument.
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You show no consistency all, you show a total lack of knowledge of how a movie can be considered successful, in terms of arses on seats & investment. Then after I suggest Ducati's investment was not a wise one, that I was criticising all product placement! If that isn't hysterical behaviour I don't know what is.



You have made it blatantly obvious where you are coming from & what level you are on, thus, you are cracked. Your going to have to leave the ........ behind if you want to be taken seriously. End of.
 
Mr Squiggle said:
And now add in the number of people who have actually SEEN these movies outside ticket sales, legitimate or otherwise, and all of a sudden you are talking about billions of people.......with Ducati actively cultivating their image of "[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]great looking bikes that are seen as being exotic[/font]" (as Nuts points out quite correctly).



As stated Apple have used product placement as one of their primary marketing strategies over the past decade or so....but what would they know about marketing hey.....maybe they should give you a call and you can run their marketing department instead.



And what relevance has the movies budget got to do with the number of people viewing the end product? I will tell ya - zilch.



And who is dismissing Rossis influence on sales.....I am just "speculating" that maybe there are more factors to it than just VR which is what Talpa was and you seem to be suggesting...so take a deep breath and stop acting like a hysterical schoolgirl
<
Click to expand...

Just taking one of the movies (the one with the highest WW takings) and assuming an average price of $10 per ticket, that makes in the region of 74 million people who have seen Matrix 2. Not sure how you get from there to billions (BTW, real billions are 1012 as opposed to the cheapo US billion at 109
<
)



Product placement is all well and good, but I doubt too many people go from "Ducati, huh, what's that?" to "Wow, there were Ducati's in Matrix2, must buy one", plus how many of those people who saw the movies have any interest in buying a sports bike, let alone the latest expensive Italian exotica?



I'm with a previous poster who said that the influence on Ducati sales of Stoner/Rossi/Hayden and movie placement are all very small. I don't think that the new Bond movie is going to massively increase sales of the Landrover Defender, which apparently features
<




People either have a Ducati or a Ferrari or an Aston or whatever on their wish list or they don't. It's a completely different price range and hence ballpark than an iPhone so different marketing tools are needed IMO.
 
Goatboy said:
I just wanna know when I said product placement dosen't work?
<
Click to expand...



You said this......



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Yes Ducati have gone out of their way to have a presence in Hollywood cinema. However Tron Legacy, Wall Street 2 (The Matrix was frigging years ago) & lets say Terminator Salvation failed to sell cinema tickets let alone motorcycles. Plus all the cited movies were released in 2010 or before. I think Knight & Day was the most recent example, also a bomb.[/background][/font]



Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding of this quote of yours is that you are categorically stating Ducatis product placement strategy has been a waste of time and not lead to any increase in sales......I beg to differ - but as I have stated I am speculating.



BTW Ticket sales are but a small part of the equation as far as brand exposure goes....TV/Broadcast rights, DVD sales or god forbid....circulating pirated copies, internet streaming, torrent downloads etc etc all contribute to exposure for a brand.....and that is for perpetuity



It is an incredibly powerful tool for increasing brand awareness....
 
yamaka46 said:
Just taking one of the movies (the one with the highest WW takings) and assuming an average price of $10 per ticket, that makes in the region of 74 million people who have seen Matrix 2. Not sure how you get from there to billions (BTW, real billions are 1012 as opposed to the cheapo US billion at 109
<
)



Product placement is all well and good, but I doubt too many people go from "Ducati, huh, what's that?" to "Wow, there were Ducati's in Matrix2, must buy one", plus how many of those people who saw the movies have any interest in buying a sports bike, let alone the latest expensive Italian exotica?



I'm with a previous poster who said that the influence on Ducati sales of Stoner/Rossi/Hayden and movie placement are all very small. I don't think that the new Bond movie is going to massively increase sales of the Landrover Defender, which apparently features
<




People either have a Ducati or a Ferrari or an Aston or whatever on their wish list or they don't. It's a completely different price range and hence ballpark than an iPhone so different marketing tools are needed IMO.
Click to expand...



Ever been to Shanghai? There is a DVD pirate on every corner over there......people still see the brand even if its not being paid for. Ticket sales are a modest percentage of the entire viewership.....



By the time you take into account all the people that see ALL of the movies with Ducatis in them it equates to "billions of people". Getting your product in front of a huge audience certainly doesnt hurt sales.



But maybe you are right and I am wrong.
 
Goatboy said:
You show no consistency all, you show a total lack of knowledge of how a movie can be considered successful, in terms of arses on seats & investment. Then after I suggest Ducati's investment was not a wise one, that I was criticising all product placement! If that isn't hysterical behaviour I don't know what is.



You have made it blatantly obvious where you are coming from & what level you are on, thus, you are cracked. Your going to have to leave the ........ behind if you want to be taken seriously. End of.
Click to expand...



And you are doing such a good job of debating me in a calm and rational manner. Goodnight.
 
Mr Squiggle said:
Correct me if I am wrong...
Click to expand...
Yes you are, you then cited Apple as if I had said all product placement was a dead end, altering the context in which my statement was made to attempt to take a cheap shot because you couldn't find anything else.
 
yamaka46 said:
Just taking one of the movies (the one with the highest WW takings) and assuming an average price of $10 per ticket, that makes in the region of 74 million people who have seen Matrix 2. Not sure how you get from there to billions (BTW, real billions are 1012 as opposed to the cheapo US billion at 109
<
)



Product placement is all well and good, but I doubt too many people go from "Ducati, huh, what's that?" to "Wow, there were Ducati's in Matrix2, must buy one", plus how many of those people who saw the movies have any interest in buying a sports bike, let alone the latest expensive Italian exotica?



I'm with a previous poster who said that the influence on Ducati sales of Stoner/Rossi/Hayden and movie placement are all very small. I don't think that the new Bond movie is going to massively increase sales of the Landrover Defender, which apparently features
<




People either have a Ducati or a Ferrari or an Aston or whatever on their wish list or they don't. It's a completely different price range and hence ballpark than an iPhone so different marketing tools are needed IMO.
Click to expand...
With perhaps the exception of Wall Street 2 I seriously doubt that the target audience of those movies are even in the age range to buy a bike, at least not the ones shown.



Although I admit I have no clue about American bike license & ownership laws, it may be different to the UK.
 
Most states you can be licensed to ride a motorcycle at 16. In the states that I am familiar with, there are no "step up, transition" limits like in Europe. Either limited by hp or engine size. So you have the typical impulse bought, with no prior riding history, mine is bigger and faster than yours dumb ... purchasers. Those that are easily influenced by what they see on the TV, movies, etc. buy what they see.



What happened after them "Fast and Furious" style movies with the blinged out sport bikes? Blinged out bikes on the streets in the US.

Same thing happened with Ducati after Matrix. I was living in Seattle at the time and Monsters were all over the place, except the shop floor because they were out of stock.
 

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