Its pretty obvious that MGP riders consider the CRT or whatever a better gig than WSBK. Why, I have pondered... WSBK is a real World Championship. CRT is, well, nada. My theory is its always better to be in the show - they'd rather be best of the rest in MGP than a WSBK world champion. Says a lot about what we think of WSBK and what the riders think of it.
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I disagree. Its a bit more complicated i think. Alex Espargaro for example wouldnt consider Wsbk because his opportunities are abundant in GP. In Nickys case, his country bumpkin ... perhaps thinks staying in GP may mean other opportunities will arise. Like dumb ... Hopkins who never cut ties with Suzuki chasing that carrot that they were coming back to GP. Perhaps we are the ones thinking he sees Wsbk as a lesser series, where he may be thinking of keeping himself in closer proximity to GP in case the new rules work in his favor. Maybe he is thinking riding for Aprillia maintains his status as a factory rider, as most accept it is a defacto factory entry. Maybe there were no good Wsbk seats left, so at this time it didnt make sense to move as it is late in the silly season, the only thing available being Ducati, and the bad taste of replacing him bothered him (I doubt it though, as his ego seems more akin to a doormat). But I wouldn't say all riders see Wsbk as less. Marco Melandri was asked if he considers return to GP (a runner up in MotoGP and a multiple race winner). His reply was "hell no!" The suggestion being, and sorry the deal for being a broken recird but...the suggestion was GP is more a country club, if ur not in that inner circle then you're ....... I spoke with a few friends yesterday when the news broke Nicky was staying in GP as a CRT rider. Several of us, as I am of the opinion it was a bad move. He only has a few years left and us still a top world rider, but not having the machinery to prove it. He for all intents matched VR and Dovi. Going to a CRT is a latteral move at best, fighting for 10+ position. The class within a class is now a defacto transition for "walk on try outs" seeking prototype jobs. Where as in Wsbk, Nicky would gave become the instant star of the series and an immediate title contender. Even on the Penisgalli; given the rules are decidedly going toward superstock, the Ducati would be immediately competitive as its the reining class champ. Not to mention Wsbk has been missing an American since Spies won the title in his rookie year. All in all, I cant see any upside in him staying. I doubt the money was an issue. He has expressed wanting to stay in GP. The question is, what then does he expect to accomplish? Certainly not podium, much less race wins. So im thinking this may be a holding pattern of sorts, hoping (unrealistically for me) thst some other competitive opportunity presents itself in the future. For me, I would gave tried talking him into Wsbk. His name will fade considerably as a CRT rider, as 99% of the spectating public have no clue that its a 3rd tier machine in terms of parity. Its already bad enuf that most, even informed people percieve results at face value. So what ever results he gets now are sure to be consistently for 10+ position. Where as in Wsbk his name and stock would have sored instantly. With the prospect of a Wsbk title, the name Nicky Hayden would have been categorized in a special class. An AMA, WSBK, and MotoGP title winner (say what u will, a feat never before accomplished). Now for us Americans, add to this the possibility of him entering and winning the Springfield mile, and entering into the highest of exclusive Grand Slam clubs of motoracing, that would have been something. Children a 1000 years from now would have been siging songs to his glory.
Nice write up,
However no need to keep mentioning CRT as this classification (rule) is out as of the end of this year.
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Thanx. I just dont know what to call it. I think "non MSMA" entry sounds lame and worse undiscriptive of uts reality.
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Its pretty obvious that MGP riders consider the CRT or whatever a better gig than WSBK. Why, I have pondered... WSBK is a real World Championship. CRT is, well, nada. My theory is its always better to be in the show - they'd rather be best of the rest in MGP than a WSBK world champion. Says a lot about what we think of WSBK and what the riders think of it.
3613291379291401
I disagree. Its a bit more complicated i think. Alex Espargaro for example wouldnt consider Wsbk because his opportunities are abundant in GP. In Nickys case, his country bumpkin ... perhaps thinks staying in GP may mean other opportunities will arise. Like dumb ... Hopkins (I say affectionately, loyal to a fault) who never cut ties with Suzuki chasing that carrot that they were coming back to GP. Perhaps we are the ones thinking he sees Wsbk as a lesser series, where he may be thinking of keeping himself in closer proximity to GP in case the new rules work in his favor. Maybe he is thinking riding for Aprillia maintains his status as a factory rider, as most accept it is a defacto factory entry. Maybe there were no good Wsbk seats left, so at this time it didnt make sense to move as it is late in the silly season, the only thing available being Ducati, and the bad taste of replacing him perhaps bothered him (I doubt it though, as his ego seems more akin to a doormat). But I wouldn't say all riders see Wsbk as less. Marco Melandri was asked if he considers return to GP (a runner up in MotoGP and a multiple race winner). His reply was "hell no!" The suggestion being (and sorry the deal for being a broken record) but...the suggestion was GP is more a country club, if ur not in that inner circle then you're ....... I spoke with a few friends yesterday when the news broke Nicky was staying in GP as a CRT rider. Several of us, as I am of the same opinion feel it was a bad move. He only has a few years left and is still a top world rider, but not having the machinery to prove it. He for all intents matched VR and Dovi. Going to a CRT is a latteral move at best, fighting for 10+ position. The class within a class is now a defacto transition for "walk on try outs" seeking prototype jobs. Where as in Wsbk, Nicky would have become the instant star of the series and an immediate title contender. Even on the Penisgalli; given the rules are decidedly going toward superstock, the Ducati would be immediately competitive as its the reining class champ. Not to mention Wsbk has been missing an American since Spies won the title in his rookie year. All in all, I cant see any upside in him staying. I doubt the money was an issue. He has expressed wanting to stay in GP, and seems to have forced tge issue. The question is, what then does he expect to accomplish? Certainly not a podium, much less race wins. So im thinking this may be a holding pattern of sorts, hoping (unrealistically for me) that some other competitive opportunity presents itself in the future. For me, I would have tried talking him into Wsbk. His name will fade considerably as a CRT rider, as 99% of the spectating public have no clue that its a 3rd tier machine in terms of parity. Its already bad enuf that most, even informed people percieve results at face value. So what ever results he gets now are sure to be consistently for 10+ position. Where as in Wsbk his name and stock would have sored instantly. With the prospect of a Wsbk title, the name Nicky Hayden would have been categorized in a special class. An AMA, WSBK, and MotoGP title winner (say what u will, a feat never before accomplished). Now for us Americans, add to this the possibility of him entering and winning the Springfield mile, and entering into the highest of exclusive "Grand Slam" clubs of motoracing: this would have been something. Children a 1000 years from now would have been siging songs to his glory.
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I don't think his name will fade Jum, the ART will be a lot better next year, if it still gets the tyres and the extra fuel it might be a shock, firstly Nicky is better than Aleix,
then if Duc don't improve it will be a lot better than them, Forward will take most of the year to even start to get the Yam engine and frame deal working, the production Honda's look ok on paper but they have zero data and no track time, so looking at it Nicky may be on a very good bike.
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The ART might be good and get extra fuel, but it also means the Dorna Spec ECU....I think this is what is going to keep the non-Factory outfits at the back of field more than anything else.....Nicky is the other limiting factor in my view, but we can talk about that after Valencia
3612851379245407
Its pretty obvious that MGP riders consider the CRT or whatever a better gig than WSBK. Why, I have pondered... WSBK is a real World Championship. CRT is, well, nada. My theory is its always better to be in the show - they'd rather be best of the rest in MGP than a WSBK world champion. Says a lot about what we think of WSBK and what the riders think of it.
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It might something as simple a the social factor. Think of all the people Nicky had made close ties with in MGP over the years.
It's a big family. Going to WSBK would be like moving to a new house filled largely with strangers in a new neighborhood
which is always a traumatic and stressful change. Why do guys like Agostini keep showing up at race weekends? They're
not there for the money. They've seen enough race weekends to last a lifetime. They could be sitting on a yacht with topless
chicks drinking champagne - but instead, they want to hang with the boys, enjoy the attention of the media and the fans
be around the best machines, with the best smells and sounds a racer can experience. Beats sitting around in a small town
in Kentucky keeping an eye on the profits from dad's car lot.
I don't think his name will fade Jum, the ART will be a lot better next year, if it still gets the tyres and the extra fuel it might be a shock, firstly Nicky is better than Aleix,
then if Duc don't improve it will be a lot better than them, Forward will take most of the year to even start to get the Yam engine and frame deal working, the production Honda's look ok on paper but they have zero data and no track time, so looking at it Nicky may be on a very good bike.
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I wish I shared your enthusiasm Deal. I just think next year's ART is a big unknown, as the parity between CRTs is wildly diverse, though we "know" they won't be as good as competitive prototypes (shelving Ducatis problems); but even then , this year's bike might have tricked Nicky (especially this weekend's performance) into thinking it can go head to head with satellites (unrealistically). The Dorna spec ECU (and im not citing conspiracy bro, it really is a Dorna commissioned ECU) in particular means that Aprilia is no longer in direct competition against the other factories in contrast to this year of sorts. Considering Forward Racing will employ this year's M1's and rebrand them as "production racers", I honestly can see the upside for Nicky. I hope you're right.
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Not so sure about that and I don't think that aspect of the move would phase a personable guy like Nicky in the slightest. The WSB paddock is renowned for being much more laid back and convivial than its relatively regimental GP counterpart. As far as I'm aware, no one has ever found a move from GP to WSBk as you describe 'stressful' or 'traumatic'. On the contrary most comment on what a breath of fresh air the experience is - even 'Lil John said words to that effect and he was largely lampooned and persecuted for his behaviour when he got there. If anything any negative transition is in the other direction...I remember Troy Corser being particularly vocal about this in '96 (was it?). I think it would actually suit Nicky more.
Honestly, very few people perceive VR's performance sub par (except us on PS who scrutinize GP in detail). He is still arriving on the podium occasionally, a race win to boot, and the Dorna force TV feed is still obsessed with glamor shots. His hats and Tshirts are still selling like tea in china. He will quit when he wants, because he simply is a cash cow for Dorna, which means he can write his own ticket. I'm pretty sure if we were to ask Dovi privately if he were offered a way out of Ducati onto one of the four factory Japanese bikes, would he take it? He'd leave in a heartbeat. I suppose your point is however that this "rockstar" status is what keeps Nicky in GP. If that were the case, I'd have you (and more importantly him) consider that Nicky would be THEE rockstar in Wsbk. He would be the instant Valentino/Marquez of Wsbk, every pit egress and ingress would be the subject to show us the new and exciting prospect, every slow motion would be subject to watch Nicky's form, every series promo video would prominently have him front center, event posters would have his face and bike plastered as big as life, and the longest lines would be to get his autograph. Think about it, who would rival Nicky's rockstar status if he were in that paddock? Sykes? Guintoli? Laverty? Melandri? Davies? JRea? ...., though most are cool blokes (except Jrea) Non are as accomplished and certainly none as fabulously pretty. Nicky would stand out as the lead singer of that band, the face of the series, thee 'rockstar'.3613671379356120
I wonder how long before the betting shops in London start taking odds on how long Rossi will stay in MGP before calling it quits.The whole celebrity, red carpet treatment lifestyle and stadiums of fans wearing yellow is a powerful magnet for guys who havebecome accustomed to being adored by the masses. Making the transition to ex-rockstar is not an easy thing and only a few ofthe great ones do it with grace.
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Interesting thoughts Kesh, but I seriously doubt this was factored in to Nicky's decision making process. I think it would be harder for Edwards to "psychologically" return to Wsbk, but for Nicky its still uncharted territory. I'm not sure what you mean by riders who "walked away from GP...had really come closed to achieving a WC". Not sure if you mean riders who have left GP for Wsbk were unaccomplished, or riders who rode in GP were unaccomplished in Wsbk. But Melandri was a runner-up in MotoGP, and has something like 5 wins in the series, and should have been a Wsbk WC had he not melted down the last couple of rounds. Checa, ok not quite"coming close to a WC in GP" is also a GP retread with a Wsbk title, not just Biaggi, and, if I can add Sylvain Guintoli, who is poised to win a Wsbk title, also a former GP rider (not high profile given he rode on Dunlops, but that is my point when I make the case about parity in GP leading spectators to make erroneous conclusions about rider's talent). Nori Haga also can be placed in this category of former GP riders, as it may be a bit of a stretch to some, did actually compete two years in GP (again, parity being an issue me thinks), but the man came runner up several times in Wsbk (and should have been a champ in his own right had it not been for some ........ technicality). Ok, perhaps the guys like Nori and Guintoli, were less vested, but not for the guys like Biaggi or Melandri. Who like Nicky are something like outside the country club. Who is in that country club is a mystery, but Stoner, the fastest man on earth at one time was not in that country club, where as Pol Espargaro, a multi year runner-up in a sub-category seems to be a hard-cover card carrying member. Sponsorship money? Have you noticed that Nicky does not have a cap/helmet energy drink logo? Unlike every other high profile rider. Why? All the other "high profile" riders do, so not sure what would diminish, as he hardly has a "boat load of sponsorship money". His pops and mum sell Hayden bro tees and trinkets from a tiny vendors tent. Kesh, I honestly think Nicky's values are at odds in GP, they always have been, thats why the series has ate him up after his 06 title. This humble guy still takes vacations with his entire family, lives on the family plot, doesn't drink alcohol (asked his dad if he could taste the champagne after his first GP win, fact) and apologizes for race moves that he thinks are unbecoming of that dirt track ethic "ah shucks country boy" mentality. Why you think partly driving his decision to stay in GP is because of his addiction of the "taste for the good life" simply doesn't jive with the reality of his actual private lifestyle. Have you seen his girlfriend? This chick isn't a monster energy knock out, but rather humble looking, chosing to stay out of the limelight, unlike say all the other rider's hot GF's. I saw here at Laguna, chilling with Earl, looking so unassuming. (Which btw, reminds me, oh Lordy, do yourself a favor everybody, look up the umbrella grid .... standing next to Bradley Smith at Misano!)Honestly, very few people perceive VR's performance sub par (except us on PS who scrutinize GP in detail). He is still arriving on the podium occasionally, a race win to boot, and the Dorna force TV feed is still obsessed with glamor shots. His hats and Tshirts are still selling like tea in china. He will quit when he wants, because he simply is a cash cow for Dorna, which means he can write his own ticket. I'm pretty sure if we were to ask Dovi privately if he were offered a way out of Ducati onto one of the four factory Japanese bikes, would he take it? He'd leave in a heartbeat. I suppose your point is however that this "rockstar" status is what keeps Nicky in GP. If that were the case, I'd have you (and more importantly him) consider that Nicky would be THEE rockstar in Wsbk. He would be the instant Valentino/Marquez of Wsbk, every pit egress and ingress would be the subject to show us the new and exciting prospect, every slow motion would be subject to watch Nicky's form, every series promo video would prominently have him front center, event posters would have his face and bike plastered as big as life, and the longest lines would be to get his autograph. Think about it, who would rival Nicky's rockstar status if he were in that paddock? Sykes? Guintoli? Laverty? Melandri? Davies? JRea? ...., though most are cool blokes (except Jrea) Non are as accomplished and certainly none as fabulously pretty. Nicky would stand out as the lead singer of that band, the face of the series, thee 'rockstar'.