Mat Oxley on the Michelin tires

JPSLotus · Sep 28, 2016

His latest piece talks about the Michelin tires, and the front in particular.

Worth a read.

MotoGP?s new golden era? | Motor Sport Magazine

Jakrap · Sep 28, 2016

JPSLotus said:
His latest piece talks about the Michelin tires, and the front in particular.

Worth a read.

MotoGP?s new golden era? | Motor Sport Magazine

Good Read.

The problem with the current crop of Michelin's is that it is disadvantageous to riders with the High corner (HC) speed style of riding like Lorenzo or Vinales.

Heavy brakers (HB ) like Rossi, Marquez and Dovisiozo thrive on the hard compound and HC style guys require a soft/medium which would last the whole race, which is rarely available.

Where HB is always worried if they would get enough grip at the start of the race, HC always have to worry if their tires would last till the end of the race. Between the two the first looks the lesser evil.

danski · Sep 28, 2016

Did anyone hear JT at the weekend? He said there's a profile problem between front and rear tyres and that could be leading to front end washout's.

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 28, 2016

Daniboy said:
Did anyone hear JT at the weekend? He said there's a profile problem between front and rear tyres and that could be leading to front end washout's.

Do you know who first diagnosed that?

danski · Sep 28, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
Do you know who first diagnosed that?

No, has it been discussed before?

Arrabbiata1 · Sep 28, 2016

Daniboy said:
No, has it been discussed before?

Not on here I don't think. Do you recall a few months ago Lorenzo venerating Stoner, seemingly out of the blue? Much of this was to rile Valentino and undermine this embarrassing GOAT nonsense, but in his eagerness to blow smoke up Casey's arse he did however divulge something of substance. First ride on the Michelins, Stoner immediately detected that the front and rear were in discord. I guess even those with the most cursory interest in the sport have gathered that the Michelin rear has a reputation for pushing the front, but after Stoner's first outing on the new rubber he was immediately insistent that the profiles were at odds. Lorenzo attributes this to the guy's unearthly talent to detect subtleties that most riders are oblivious to or wrongly attribute elsewhere. Part of the ........ around Stoner circulated on forums was that he lacked development skills which is utter garbage. At LCR, I mentioned on another thread that he was forced to run different front and rear profiles and the inertia/resistance at Ducati towards developing around rider feedback meant that he rode around many problems that began to afflict the motorcycle.

The suggestion that the tyres may be in disharmony (front and rear) simply vindicates Stoner's findings from his first ride on the Ducati.

danski · Sep 28, 2016

I wish I'd kept the interview, iirc there is a point when leaning into a corner where the profile mismatch becomes critically misaligned.
How has this been overlooked for so long?

Richy56 · Sep 28, 2016

One day oxley will tell us something we don't know.

This season is built as one as the most exciting ever with numerous different winners, when really it's to distract the glaring quality control failures of Michelin.

birdman · Sep 28, 2016

Daniboy said:
I wish I'd kept the interview, iirc there is a point when leaning into a corner where the profile mismatch becomes critically misaligned.
How has this been overlooked for so long?

I find this interview more interesting than anything JT has to say and it was way back at the Sepang test:

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2016/02/05/casey_stoner_s_ducati_motogp_test_your_q.html

The other example came at this test at Sepang. When asked about how the Michelin tires felt, he gave an explanation for why so many riders had crashed in the afternoon of that day. "There's a little point after probably 45°, that it goes down just a little bit more, that it doesn't seem to match with the rear with some of the profiles that we've tested. And that gives everybody a little bit a nervous feeling, and essentially why people are struggling into Turn 5, a big fast open corner, going in, when the bike goes light, it doesn't like that feeling, and it gets the bike a little nervous, and I think that's when the front wants to break away. Everybody has been having a very similar crash there." The crashes were happening either on the way into the corner, or on the way out, both points where the rider is transitioning across that sensitive area. Other riders will just tell you, "it was a strange crash."

Iamapony · Sep 28, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
...... Do you recall a few months ago Lorenzo venerating Stoner, seemingly out of the blue?
...........
The suggestion that the tyres may be in disharmony (front and rear) simply vindicates Stoner's findings from his first ride on the Ducati.

birdman said:
I find this interview more interesting than anything JT has to say and it was way back at the Sepang test:

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2016/02/05/casey_stoner_s_ducati_motogp_test_your_q.html

As soon as Stoner was mentioned the lightbulb lit in my freezer of a brain. Thanks for the link. This Aussie is something special. He might be a better manager than most of these clowns. He could test and manage.
I want him to take Jarvis's job while Rossi is still there.
:insert evil laughter here.

JohnnyKnockdown · Sep 28, 2016

Iamapony said:
As soon as Stoner was mentioned the lightbulb lit in my freezer of a brain. Thanks for the link. This Aussie is something special. He might be a better manager than most of these clowns. He could test and manage.
I want him to take Jarvis's job while Rossi is still there.
:insert evil laughter here.

Keep watching. I bet Coach Stoner can coach Jorge to match at least as many losing titles as he had

Gaz · Sep 28, 2016

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Keep watching. I bet Coach Stoner can coach Jorge to match at least as many losing titles as he had

Nah Johnny, Rossi is better in that department as well.

In MotoGP, Rossi has failed to win (ie. lost as you wish to declare) 8 times to Stoners five times.

So my suggestion would be that if Lorenzo wishes to learn to lose, is there a better example than Rossi (in today's field), although I suspect that Rossi may not wish to offer any helpful advice

Actually JKD, Lorenzo has already equalled Stoner in that department as well so he needs no help losing.

I so cannot wait for Lorenzo to win a race on the Ducati .............. coffee will be spat, beer will be spilled, egg will splatter onto faces etc

JPSLotus · Sep 28, 2016

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Keep watching. I bet Coach Stoner can coach Jorge to match at least as many losing titles as he had

Talk like that, and you will see endless spoilers in your future.

Gaz · Sep 28, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Talk like that, and you will see endless spoilers in your future.

The world is round ..............

.... it, lets start now

#22 · Sep 28, 2016

Gaz said:
I so cannot wait for Lorenzo to win a race on the Ducati .............. coffee will be spat, beer will be spilled, egg will splatter onto faces etc

All they will say is "It's not the same Ducati that Rossi rode"..it's already preprogammed into their brain as an excuse.

Gaz · Sep 28, 2016

#22 said:
All they will say is "It's not the same Ducati that Rossi rode"..it's already preprogammed into their brain as an excuse.

I also expect that it will be 'it is still carrying on from Rossis development work'

Or will it be 'but the bike is so fast and powerful

Or the bike rides itself

Or Rossi could have won on that

Mind you, if they say that Rabat could win on it then we know they have gone to far

Iamapony · Sep 28, 2016

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Keep watching. I bet Coach Stoner can coach Jorge to match at least as many losing titles as he had

Interesting, except Stoner won 33% of all the MotoGP races he entered, even riding a questionable Ducati, while Lorenzo has won 28% of his MotoGP entries while riding either the best or second best bike in the field.

Thus, it appears that Stoner can help Lorenzo at least 5%.

JohnnyKnockdown · Sep 28, 2016

Gaz said:
Nah Johnny, Rossi is better in that department as well.

In MotoGP, Rossi has failed to win (ie. lost as you wish to declare) 8 times to Stoners five times.

So my suggestion would be that if Lorenzo wishes to learn to lose, is there a better example than Rossi (in today's field), although I suspect that Rossi may not wish to offer any helpful advice

Actually JKD, Lorenzo has already equalled Stoner in that department as well so he needs no help losing.

I so cannot wait for Lorenzo to win a race on the Ducati .............. coffee will be spat, beer will be spilled, egg will splatter onto faces etc

You do realize Stoner is Jorge's "coach" now right?
Stoner has told us he mastered the art of tire dynamics. Too bad he didnt get that masters degree until post retirement. Im sure Jorge will benefit from telling a multi champion that the front is different than the rear. This couldn't come too soon. I've seen of a lot of teams trying to fit the front onto the rear and vice versa. Here's a tip for Michelin, maybe they should label them front and back.
When Stoner inevitably quits Ducati (again). Theres always a career as a North Korean press writer for him

Gaz · Sep 28, 2016

JohnnyKnockdown said:
You do realize Stoner is Jorge's "coach" now right?

Not so although no doubt that CS and JL are incontact on a regular basis, after all, JL has read the chapter in Stoners biography titled 'how to piss off Rossi in 5 easy steps'

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Stoner has told us he mastered the art of tire dynamics. Too bad he didnt get that masters degree until post retirement.

Wrong again JKD, but then, that wouldn't be the first time would it.

Stoner did not make any such claims for it was the valued, trustworthy media who has mad such claims, although one can understand why as after all Stoner has been smiling a lot lately and no doubt that they are blinded by the sheen emanating from his garage door like front teeth.

JohnnyKnockdown said:
When Stoner inevitably quits Ducati (again). Theres always a career as a North Korean press writer for him

And until then you and the like will continue to try to make us believe that you do not enjoy the guy, what he was and what he brings as you man infatuation is quite obvious really Johnny, as after all, you are just playing a version of hard to get when in reality you want.

AJV80 · Sep 28, 2016

#22 said:
All they will say is "It's not the same Ducati that Rossi rode"..it's already preprogammed into their brain as an excuse.

To be fair it isn't but I still think it will take Lorenzo some getting used to, He has been with Yamaha for some time now, learning a new bike will have its challenges but I think he will do a lot better than Rossi ever did with them.

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