lorenzo sign 1 year deal @yamaha

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 30 2009, 05:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your post made me laugh and bought back memorys.

In 06 and 07 Hayden was the man being "forced" to test all the new parts while pedrosa was finishing higher than his team mate on the old stuff. Yet the bike was "build for pedrosa" .
Now rossi is testing new parts instead of lorenzo and its seen as favortizum towards rossi oh the irony.

It becomes even a bigger 'irony'…

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 31 2009, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Any time a rider is on a bike developed by Rossi/Burgess, they're in a strong position...

So is it Rossi being 'forced to try new parts'? Or is it 'Favoritism'? Or even an 'Advantage' for other Riders to find themselves in a 'Strong Position'?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 24 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's no BS. I'm selling it or trading up to a Yamaha R6.

Go Hayden, I love you Rossi!

I thought I read (even 'Wet Dreams') from all my friends that support Hayden that it would be great to 'hop on a leg' on the M1 if Lorenzo was to go to Ducati… Meaning that it would not be Lorenzo 'developing' or being 'forced to try new parts' for the M1, how could he if he had been at Ducati? Also meaning it would be Rossi's feedback to Burges that would put Hayden in a 'Strong Position' or in and 'Advantage'… Wasn't it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 30 2009, 05:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>oh the irony.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 1 2009, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just theoretical, I guess... How long does Yamaha humour Jorge if he insists he likes certain parts that Vale doesn't if Vale is out performing Jorge? Do they continue with the expense of developing two bikes in different directions if they (Yamaha) believe that Jorge would be faster following Vale's development direction.
Good point. I'm sure Yamaha are hoping it doesn't come to that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Sep 1 2009, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So is it Rossi being 'forced to try new parts'? Or is it 'Favoritism'? Or even an 'Advantage' for other Riders to find themselves in a 'Strong Position'?

I thought I read (even 'Wet Dreams') from all my friends that support Hayden that it would be great to 'hop on a leg' on the M1 if Lorenzo was to go to Ducati… Meaning that it would not be Lorenzo 'developing' or being 'forced to try new parts' for the M1, how could he if he had been at Ducati? Also meaning it would be Rossi's feedback to Burges that would put Hayden in a 'Strong Position' or in and 'Advantage'… Wasn't it?




I don't quite follow. It's an advantage to ride a bike developed by Rossi/Burgess, there's no one better in the business at that. I don't quite understand what you're getting at. Rossi isn't forced to test parts, he tests what he feels will improve the bike based on the feedback he receives from the engineers and test riders. It's not favoritism, it's being the lead rider. I don't understand your Lorenzo link. I'm not trying to say Lorenzo could develop the M1 better than Rossi, that would be stupid. My initial point was that Lorenzo getting a chance to test pieces could be beneficial for himself as there may be some bits that Rossi doesn't like that Lorenzo would. And finally, Hayden riding a Rossi/Burgess developed M1 would put him in a strong position, not an advantage. Everyone wants to ride the M1, why else do you think Herve Poncheral has several offers from riders offering to ride in Tech 3 for free?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Aug 31 2009, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The one-off parts have already been tested. You don't think Valentino or any factory rider are the first to test pieces, do you? The test riders do the legwork and if they respond positively to it, the parts are sent to the team. Fabrication time is surely not an issue at this point.

Lorenzo should get the same opportunity to test as Valentino. In every team there is a number one and number two rider, except for Yamaha come 2010 where it is in Lorenzo's contract that he is to receive equal treatment as Valentino.

Any time a rider is on a bike developed by Rossi/Burgess, they're in a strong position. At the same time, as Gaz pointed out, it's in Lorenzo's best interests to have an opportunity to test. Just because what's working for Rossi is also working for Lorenzo doesn't mean that there aren't bits that don't work for Rossi that would for Lorenzo.

I agree that he probably should get the opportunity to test parts that Rossi rejects. That way he will over some time have a good chance of messing up the bike.

Sure the test riders try some of the stuff first but it must be tested on the race bikes for a number of reasons and of course approved or rejected by the riders.

Back to preferential treatment it's a messy and complicated affair with some sensitive guys that need to "know" they have the best.
Some parts come as a direct request from the rider and can be typical personal preferences, others can be (or could be) engine parts, exhaust parts and so on.

Putting two (or more) riders on equal terms or letting to many opinions be heard can be a dangerous game in bike development. Look at Honda to see how to .... up the best bike on the grid in no time. I suspect Yamaha has found their path and will stay on it. Every major chassis upgrade will be decided by the one that has won them all that glory the later years and if there are others that doesn't like it, to bad for them.
Fortunately it looks like Rossi like his bikes in a way that make them very ridable for others as well. That is despite his quite particular preferences in setup that others don't copy.
Call it preferential treatment, but I call it common sense.
What odds would you give Lorenzo for making a faster vs slower bike than what he has today if he were the #1 rider?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Sep 1 2009, 05:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What happens if Jorge starts testing, likes some different parts than Vale, but starts getting poorer results... does Yamaha continue to spend cash on producing Jorge's parts if they feel they are adversely affecting his performance? (Or vise versa or course)

If we talk major upgrades like frame and major chassis parts I suspect Yamaha will tell Jorge to most respectfully go and .... him self.
Mind you, I'm talking major parts that typically influence the development of other parts of the bike.
It's not hard to imagine som major chassi parts that change the way traction control work or frame that require new suspension parts.....
In those cases Lorenzo better agree with Rossi me thinks.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 1 2009, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree that he probably should get the opportunity to test parts that Rossi rejects. That way he will over some time have a good chance of messing up the bike.

Sure the test riders try some of the stuff first but it must be tested on the race bikes for a number of reasons and of course approved or rejected by the riders.

Back to preferential treatment it's a messy and complicated affair with some sensitive guys that need to "know" they have the best.
Some parts come as a direct request from the rider and can be typical personal preferences, others can be (or could be) engine parts, exhaust parts and so on.

Putting two (or more) riders on equal terms or letting to many opinions be heard can be a dangerous game in bike development. Look at Honda to see how to .... up the best bike on the grid in no time. I suspect Yamaha has found their path and will stay on it. Every major chassis upgrade will be decided by the one that has won them all that glory the later years and if there are others that doesn't like it, to bad for them.
Fortunately it looks like Rossi like his bikes in a way that make them very ridable for others as well. That is despite his quite particular preferences in setup that others don't copy.
Call it preferential treatment, but I call it common sense.
What odds would you give Lorenzo for making a faster vs slower bike than what he has today if he were the #1 rider?
I agree with the majority of what you're saying. My point is not that Lorenzo can develop the bike better than Rossi. My point is as an equal, Lorenzo should get the chance to test the same bits Rossi gets to. If Rossi doesn't like a new frame but Lorenzo does, I don't imagine Yamaha will put the new frame on all the customer bikes or that development will follow Lorenzo. I'm saying Lorenzo will get the opportunity to test these pieces which will allow him a further spectrum of variables to improve.

That said, there is the other side of the coin that says Lorenzo could get lost in it all and end up slowing himself down. Luckily for him, Rossi is still on the other side of the garage and what he's done with the M1 sure seems to work for Lorenzo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Sep 2 2009, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with the majority of what you're saying. My point is not that Lorenzo can develop the bike better than Rossi. My point is as an equal, Lorenzo should get the chance to test the same bits Rossi gets to. If Rossi doesn't like a new frame but Lorenzo does, I don't imagine Yamaha will put the new frame on all the customer bikes or that development will follow Lorenzo. I'm saying Lorenzo will get the opportunity to test these pieces which will allow him a further spectrum of variables to improve.

That said, there is the other side of the coin that says Lorenzo could get lost in it all and end up slowing himself down. Luckily for him, Rossi is still on the other side of the garage and what he's done with the M1 sure seems to work for Lorenzo.

Well he should be allowed to try it but as you say, what should they do with that odd frame in the future. Yamaha would never follow a different path than the one Rossi choose. Not because it's in his contract but because they would be idiots not to. Lorenzo is equal in rights but that's about all "equalness" there is between the two. Lorenzo are right now hardly an equal partner in the team no matter what is stated in the contract. Not that I think it is a big deal, I suspect Lorenzo is quite happy with the way things work today and except that his teampartner are taking the wins of course. I don't think he expect much next year in the development department.

So it really boils down to development plans and politics rather than the grossly unfair favouring or not to mention the overused phrase "preferential treatment".

"everyone is equal, its just that some are more equal than others"

as long as one rider is better than the other in the team, there will be inequalities. fact.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Sep 3 2009, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"everyone is equal, its just that some are more equal than others"

Animal Farm
Aldous Huxly

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 3 2009, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Animal Farm
Aldous Huxly




i knew reading that would come in handy someday..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 3 2009, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yamaha would never follow a different path than the one Rossi choose.
Perhaps not now, but they did in '06 - and it bit them on the arse.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Sep 3 2009, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Perhaps not now, but they did in '06 - and it bit them on the arse.

Since when did Yamaha develop the 06 Yamaha against Rossi's chosen direction? Please give more details

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Sep 3 2009, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Since when did Yamaha develop the 06 Yamaha against Rossi's chosen direction? Please give more details
Tom since it's you that's asking.....






























.............no! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Sep 3 2009, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tom since it's you that's asking.....

Thats fine, i suspected you were lying anyway

On the other hand, since it's you, and I feel in the mood for a debate with a condescending beligerent contradictory young upstart..

I believe Vale's main objection was the rigidity of the frame. He was very vocal in pre season testing about the stiffness of this which in conjunction with a newer profile, grippier Michelin was causing huge chatter. By Mugello I think, Yamaha had retrieved the 05 Laguna bike on Valentino's request which was in an Italian museum, and cannibalised the frame. He was also very critical of a lack of power, which proved to be a problem that year and asking for more lead to several blow ups -Le Mans and Laguna as I recall.

Could have been worse, at least he didn't have to ride the RC211v Evo piece of ..... that was cobbled together as an afterthought for Nicky that year.....but look who won the championship!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Sep 3 2009, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On the other hand, since it's you, and I feel in the mood for a debate with a condescending beligerent contradictory young upstart..

I believe Vale's main objection was the rigidity of the frame. He was very vocal in pre season testing about the stiffness of this which in conjunction with a newer profile, grippier Michelin was causing huge chatter. By Mugello I think, Yamaha had retrieved the 05 Laguna bike on Valentino's request which was in an Italian museum, and cannibalised the frame. He was also very critical of a lack of power, which proved to be a problem that year and asking for more lead to several blow ups -Le Mans and Laguna as I recall.

Could have been worse, at least he didn't have to ride the RC211v Evo piece of ..... that was cobbled together as an afterthought for Nicky that year.....but look who won the championship!

I see what your getting at. Cheers

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Sep 3 2009, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I see what your getting at. Cheers
Tom, I love you man, so it's really no problem

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 3 2009, 03:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well he should be allowed to try it but as you say, what should they do with that odd frame in the future. Yamaha would never follow a different path than the one Rossi choose. Not because it's in his contract but because they would be idiots not to. Lorenzo is equal in rights but that's about all "equalness" there is between the two. Lorenzo are right now hardly an equal partner in the team no matter what is stated in the contract. Not that I think it is a big deal, I suspect Lorenzo is quite happy with the way things work today and except that his teampartner are taking the wins of course. I don't think he expect much next year in the development department.

So it really boils down to development plans and politics rather than the grossly unfair favouring or not to mention the overused phrase "preferential treatment".
Like I said, I'm not saying the bike will be tailored to Lorenzo. He will just get the opportunity to develop his own machine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Sep 3 2009, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>On the other hand, since it's you, and I feel in the mood for a debate with a condescending beligerent contradictory young upstart..

I believe Vale's main objection was the rigidity of the frame. He was very vocal in pre season testing about the stiffness of this which in conjunction with a newer profile, grippier Michelin was causing huge chatter. By Mugello I think, Yamaha had retrieved the 05 Laguna bike on Valentino's request which was in an Italian museum, and cannibalised the frame. He was also very critical of a lack of power, which proved to be a problem that year and asking for more lead to several blow ups -Le Mans and Laguna as I recall.

Could have been worse, at least he didn't have to ride the RC211v Evo piece of ..... that was cobbled together as an afterthought for Nicky that year.....but look who won the championship!
Those were fun times at Yamaha and Honda. Well, fun times at Yamaha and Pete Benson's half of Repsol Honda.

"What do you want? Yeah, I don't care. Here's a new clutch, give this a try."