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Lorenzo - I don't care about MotoGP championship

michaelm said:
You seem to be the one with comprehension problems. Mine were in the past, when I didn't realise that Rossi was fully complicit in the campaigns of vilification against his rivals, which his orchestration of the media and his fans in campaigns against MM and JL last year, and him specifically calling them off Iannone, made very clear, as have his actions since including comments last week-end.

More supposition about Rossi's pace "if". Why did he not get and stay in front of Lorenzo in the first place if he needed "free air". Why do these 10 points which it is the purest of conjecture he could have gained count more than all the points he lost in actual reality through not being able to beat Pedrosa in 4 of the last 5 races, and not being able to beat Iannone with whom he was one on one in the last lap at PI? Why was it bad tactics for MM to drop Iannone at an appropriate time and place if his straight line performance was such a threat?

What all this amounts to is that you have no argument, except your faith in Valentino and the moral and intellectual superiority this apparently confers on you in comparison with the likes of me and other "haters", and apparently also turns the well recognised logical fallacy of argumentum ad hominem into a legitimate form of argument, hence all you need post is "Rossi hater" and "conspiracy theory".

You did argue at length about Rossi having led the 2010 championship (after winning the first race) until a motocross accident in which he injured his shoulder, which apparently then led to his other injury. I don't recall you saying Lorenzo would have won anyway.
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Missed this before: "You fairly obviously came on here to show up we sacrilegious Rossi haters"

No I didn't, this is purely your conjecture. I came here to discuss MotoGP after mgmatters turned out to be such a horrible place to do so.

I covered PI multiple times already, refer back to that. What has him not beating Dani or Iannone have anything to do with the 10 points? Who ever said those points were more or less important than others?

My arguments about 2010 were to answer a poster who said Rossi was healthy and losing anyway before Mugello, and who didn't think about the shoulder injury before Jerez. Obviously the shoulder injury and Mugello weren't outside his control, so Lorenzo was the best that year. Dani could've gotten close if his machine didn't fail him at Motegi, but that was unlikely. Anyway, I think 1 race is hardly good enough to conclude anything, besides didn't Lorenzo have some problems at Qatar as well?
 
GeniusAtTwerk said:
Missed this before: "You fairly obviously came on here to show up we sacrilegious Rossi haters"

No I didn't, this is purely your conjecture. I came here to discuss MotoGP after mgmatters turned out to be such a horrible place to do so.

I covered PI multiple times already, refer back to that. What has him not beating Dani or Iannone have anything to do with the 10 points? Who ever said those points were more or less important than others?

My arguments about 2010 were to answer a poster who said Rossi was healthy and losing anyway before Mugello, and who didn't think about the shoulder injury before Jerez. Obviously the shoulder injury and Mugello weren't outside his control, so Lorenzo was the best that year. Dani could've gotten close if his machine didn't fail him at Motegi, but that was unlikely. Anyway, I think 1 race is hardly good enough to conclude anything, besides didn't Lorenzo have some problems at Qatar as well?
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Sure I have made assumptions, some initial, some made after quite some time engaging in considerable discussion with you, which I would mostly hesitate to call debates myself, and you mostly live up to those assumptions. Apart from your completely erroneous individual assumption about Barry for one, you do fairly evidently make a general assumption many do ie it is different because it is Valentino.

I find it rather amusing that you and MV split hairs about individual posters on here making assumptions and engaging in conjecture when the whole crux of all this concerns Valentino alleging a rather large conspiracy or plot against him to the world press pretty much entirely based on conjecture.
 
GeniusAtTwerk said:
No I didn't, this is purely your conjecture. I came here to discuss MotoGP after mgmatters turned out to be such a horrible place to do so.
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And I honestly appreciate you posting here. JKant asked what other forums are available to discuss, debate, and interact, there are plenty was my answer, none that you can do so freely though. Despite me regularly disagreeing with you, Vudu, Daniboy, etal, I'm glad you guys stick around. There's been plenty of people who've gone elsewhere because they couldn't handle the challenge.

So regardless of our disagreements, I'm glad your here, though continue to expect opinions to be debated. That's a good thing once you've gone to a place that doesn't allow it. I also know from experience.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
 
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Jumkie said:
And I honestly appreciate you posting here. JKant asked what other forums are available to discuss, debate, and interact, there are plenty was my answer, none that you can do so freely though. Despite me regularly disagreeing with you, Vudu, Daniboy, etal, I'm glad you guys stick around. There's been plenty of people who've gone elsewhere because they couldn't handle the challenge.

So regardless of our disagreements, I'm glad your here, though continue to expect opinions to be debated. That's a good thing once you've gone to a place that doesn't allow it. I also know from experience.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
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True, I sometimes read MM forums and it's far too congenial , here it's push me shove you and better for it, after all a marriage isn't a marriage without the odd argument.
 
Daniboy said:
True, I sometimes read MM forums and it's far too congenial , here it's push me shove you and better for it, after all a marriage isn't a marriage without the odd argument.
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It's congenial, because it's managed. In other words, it is censored. I have no problem with entrepreneurs wanting to limit the vulgarity or sexual talk or violent innuendo.

However, when one calls out Rossi for self-destructing when he whacked Marquez and negated his championship hopes in a politely worded post, and then said post disappears off the Moto Matters site, I call total unadulterated Fascist Pigs at the trough. ...... Too heavy?
 
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Iamapony said:
It's congenial, because it's managed. In other words, it is censored. I have no problem with entrepreneurs wanting to limit the vulgarity or sexual talk or violent innuendo.

However, when one calls out Rossi for self-destructing when he whacked Marquez and negated his championship hopes in a politely worded post, and then said post disappears off the Moto Matters site, I call total unadulterated Fascist Pigs at the trough. ...... Too heavy?
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A bit subtle.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
 
Iamapony said:
It's congenial, because it's managed. In other words, it is censored. I have no problem with entrepreneurs wanting to limit the vulgarity or sexual talk or violent innuendo.

However, when one calls out Rossi for self-destructing when he whacked Marquez and negated his championship hopes in a politely worded post, and then said post disappears off the Moto Matters site, I call total unadulterated Fascist Pigs at the trough. ...... Too heavy?
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You're doing it all wrong.

Donate a few hundred, and much like the American political system, it will buy you not only access, but the right to say whatever you want.
 
I used to post on MM but for some reason my log in won't work and they haven't sent me a replacement password, I liked it there, although not much traffic. I used to post on the BSB forum back in the day that was good but they just let it run down and it no longer exists now.

Most other forums now other than this one were way too how do I put it? Fanatical to a certain rider.
 
Iamapony said:
It's congenial, because it's managed. In other words, it is censored. I have no problem with entrepreneurs wanting to limit the vulgarity or sexual talk or violent innuendo.

However, when one calls out Rossi for self-destructing when he whacked Marquez and negated his championship hopes in a politely worded post, and then said post disappears off the Moto Matters site, I call total unadulterated Fascist Pigs at the trough. ...... Too heavy?
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Motto Matters comes in at a close second to Crash for the biggest Rossi circle jerk on the internet. Krop nows who and what butters his bread.
 
povol said:
Motto Matters comes in at a close second to Crash for the biggest Rossi circle jerk on the internet. Krop nows who and what butters his bread.
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Eurosport's forum is also terrible, you've got Rossi fans using bad language and making vile comments about other riders and they're allowed to continue unchecked. If anyone makes the slightest comment against Rossi, they're banned instantly with no warning or even reason from the mods.
Then again, they have a report button that presumably gets pressed by all the minions, the bans could be automatically triggered, effectively giving the gun to the minions.
 
GeniusAtTwerk said:
Missed this before: "You fairly obviously came on here to show up we sacrilegious Rossi haters"

No I didn't, this is purely your conjecture. I came here to discuss MotoGP after mgmatters turned out to be such a horrible place to do so.

I covered PI multiple times already, refer back to that. What has him not beating Dani or Iannone have anything to do with the 10 points? Who ever said those points were more or less important than others?

My arguments about 2010 were to answer a poster who said Rossi was healthy and losing anyway before Mugello, and who didn't think about the shoulder injury before Jerez. Obviously the shoulder injury and Mugello weren't outside his control, so Lorenzo was the best that year. Dani could've gotten close if his machine didn't fail him at Motegi, but that was unlikely. Anyway, I think 1 race is hardly good enough to conclude anything, besides didn't Lorenzo have some problems at Qatar as well?
Click to expand...

And Dani was leading the championship and had a 7 second lead in the last race going into summer break on a wet track, when that ....... halfwit Puig gave him a sign saying he was 2-3 seconds up and to push. Of course he crashed, injuring himself and handed the championship to Rossi. Dani was on a tear in 2008, had he not listened to his ....... manager and won the German Grand Prix, it would have given him close to 200 points in the first half and he would surely have won the title. See how easy that is, Rossi was not always the best rider when he won a title
 
michaelm said:
Sure I have made assumptions, some initial, some made after quite some time engaging in considerable discussion with you, which I would mostly hesitate to call debates myself, and you mostly live up to those assumptions. Apart from your completely erroneous individual assumption about Barry for one, you do fairly evidently make a general assumption many do ie it is different because it is Valentino.

I find it rather amusing that you and MV split hairs about individual posters on here making assumptions and engaging in conjecture when the whole crux of all this concerns Valentino alleging a rather large conspiracy or plot against him to the world press pretty much entirely based on conjecture.
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Eh, what do you mean by erroneous assumption about the poster in question? I'd consider the stance ".... Rossi, can't wait till he's out of this sport" is a pretty extreme one and something that is practically impossible to argue against with him.

Well individual posters make a community, when there is enough of them to make up for a significant portion of a community I'd say that is meaningful, when it's about 80% like here I'd say that's extremely meaningful.
 
povol said:
Motto Matters comes in at a close second to Crash for the biggest Rossi circle jerk on the internet. Krop nows who and what butters his bread.
Click to expand...

There are places far worse that MotoMatters in my experience (but I am a rare visitor to MM's forums).

I am an an ADV forum and dare anyone speak against Rossi for fear of being accosted by the yellow tainted mass
 
GeniusAtTwerk said:
Eh, what do you mean by erroneous assumption about the poster in question? I'd consider the stance ".... Rossi, can't wait till he's out of this sport" is a pretty extreme one and something that is practically impossible to argue against with him.

Well individual posters make a community, when there is enough of them to make up for a significant portion of a community I'd say that is meaningful, when it's about 80% like here I'd say that's extremely meaningful.
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Barry is a maverick poster, who has been entirely consistent from the first post he ever made, independent of all cod psychology.

You are encountering a community interested in the sport, most of whom have followed GP bike racing way before the cult of personality which currently pervades it. If people actually being informed about the sport offends you, tough. No-one is forcing you to post.
 
povol said:
Motto Matters comes in at a close second to Crash for the biggest Rossi circle jerk on the internet. Krop nows who and what butters his bread.
Click to expand...

What? You're completely wrong. First of all, the forum itself is quite balanced, with many posters even quite neutral regarding Lorenzo, Marquez and Rossi, stating that their allegiance is to the sport first and the rider second. While that is admirable in a way, it's also a result of the ridiculous way Krop "moderates" the forum, deleting posts randomly, ignoring most debates or questions about his POVs and threatening to ban people whenever the debates heat up a bit.

Now Krop himself, is clearly 1. Marquez, then Lorenzo and Rossi. How he was pushing the "Marquez is the BOAT/GOAT, so it's obviously Honda being the worst bike on the grid" agenda last year was absurd and he never addressed the inevitable questionings in either the comments section of the articles or the forum.

I personally tried to get him to answer many times during the season on differing topics, yet the only time he did answer was to admit he was wrong stating Rossi had been lucky every time he had beaten Lorenzo up to Silverstone, meaning every single race. It was funny to me especially because I started to see this happening after Argentina already, posting this:

"I agree. I think there is an obvious narrative going on with people having the need to complete the colliding career arcs of Rossi and Lorenzo and when the ending doesn't seem to be precisely matching it, something has to be wrong. Going back to 08-09 with Lorenzo coming to challenge the ruler Rossi, then "dethroning" him in 2010 and taking over Yamaha, to comprehensively beating him in 2013, it's very hard to accept what has happened after that. It's totally normal of course and it's not like Rossi riding like this isn't a huge surprise."

then to see Krop lose it like that after Rossi got slightly fortunate that it rained Sunday at Silverstone that he pretty much confirmed my theory in his post-race report.

Then he banned after I made a little joke about one of his posts after Valencia. :rolleyes:

So definitely not pro-Rossi, although it's not surprising to see you feel that way if you spend most of your time here, it's probably impossible to find a more anti-Rossi forum than this on the Internet.
 
GeniusAtTwerk said:
What? You're completely wrong. First of all, the forum itself is quite balanced, with many posters even quite neutral regarding Lorenzo, Marquez and Rossi, stating that their allegiance is to the sport first and the rider second. While that is admirable in a way, it's also a result of the ridiculous way Krop "moderates" the forum, deleting posts randomly, ignoring most debates or questions about his POVs and threatening to ban people whenever the debates heat up a bit.

Now Krop himself, is clearly 1. Marquez, then Lorenzo and Rossi. How he was pushing the "Marquez is the BOAT/GOAT, so it's obviously Honda being the worst bike on the grid" agenda last year was absurd and he never addressed the inevitable questionings in either the comments section of the articles or the forum.

I personally tried to get him to answer many times during the season on differing topics, yet the only time he did answer was to admit he was wrong stating Rossi had been lucky every time he had beaten Lorenzo up to Silverstone, meaning every single race. It was funny to me especially because I started to see this happening after Argentina already, posting this:

"I agree. I think there is an obvious narrative going on with people having the need to complete the colliding career arcs of Rossi and Lorenzo and when the ending doesn't seem to be precisely matching it, something has to be wrong. Going back to 08-09 with Lorenzo coming to challenge the ruler Rossi, then "dethroning" him in 2010 and taking over Yamaha, to comprehensively beating him in 2013, it's very hard to accept what has happened after that. It's totally normal of course and it's not like Rossi riding like this isn't a huge surprise."

then to see Krop lose it like that after Rossi got slightly fortunate that it rained Sunday at Silverstone that he pretty much confirmed my theory in his post-race report.

Then he banned after I made a little joke about one of his posts after Valencia. :rolleyes:

So definitely not pro-Rossi, although it's not surprising to see you feel that way if you spend most of your time here, it's probably impossible to find a more anti-Rossi forum than this on the Internet.
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If you ever give up being a Rossi fan, I can see a future for you as a door-knocking evangelist.

Posters being quite neutral, even about Lorenzo? The very idea of that.
 
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michaelm said:
If you ever give up being a Rossi fan, I can see a future for you as a door-knocking evangelist.

Posters being quite neutral, even about Lorenzo? The very idea of that.
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What's with the insults, have you been a poster there to say better? You're free to go through the archives there and come back to me with an analysis.

It's not being anti-Lorenzo if posters call after the nth time he says he's been unlucky in the 2015 season because Rossi handled the conditions or situation better or everything was not perfect for him. Here it probably would be considering the reason behind it was a conspiracy for Rossi, I'd imagine.
 
GeniusAtTwerk said:
What's with the insults, have you been a poster there to say better? You're free to go through the archives there and come back to me with an analysis.

It's not being anti-Lorenzo if posters call after the nth time he says he's been unlucky in the 2015 season because Rossi handled the conditions or situation better or everything was not perfect for him. Here it probably would be considering the reason behind it was a conspiracy for Rossi, I'd imagine.
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While all your posts consist merely of candid assessments of the obvious personality flaws and psychological problems of those not alloyed to the Rossi cause?

If you have a casual glance at the results section on the MotoGP.com site, or even Wikipedia, I think you may find Jorge Lorenzo actually won the 2015 world title, btw. Any whinging he may have done during the season was entirely eclipsed by the whining of the guy who finished second, a bioke you would seem to hold in some esteem despite this.
 

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