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JEREZ GP 2012: RACE

So you say Ducati prefer Nicky's opinion over Rossi's? Why didn't they listen to him year, two years ago?



Not me -- this is what Rossi said after the race to Italian TV: "Nicky is pointing the way".

It seems Rossi's team has reckoned they have hit a dead end trying to "transmogrify" the Ducati into something contrary to its dna. Nicky's team has been more successful, so they have now started over from Nicky's data..



NIcky in turn said: "We are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel".



Well, by listening to Rossi for 18 months they came out with a new bike, which Nicky himself says is the best Ducati he ever rode. So... that's it. We'll never know what they'd have come up with, had they followed Nicky's leads from the day Stoner left.
 
I think you'll find they are... to the rider at least. It's a moot point, however. As I said in my OP, Rossi passed RDP on lap one.



Around here them's fightin' words.
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The difference is hardly moot except in terms of points. One pats oneself on the back for besting another competitor - but not for getting an extra point or two because the competitor suffers a DNF. Being on a factory bike and beating some crappy CRT is in any event not much to crow about.
 
Not me -- this is what Rossi said after the race to Italian TV: "Nicky is pointing the way".

It seems Rossi's team has reckoned they have hit a dead end trying to "transmogrify" the Ducati into something contrary to its dna. Nicky's team has been more successful, so they have now started over from Nicky's data.



NIcky in turn said: "We are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel".



It doesn't look like they've been more successful and I think that Rossi meant Nicky is "pointing the way" to set up the bike, not to develop it
 
pretty boring tbh



good ride from casey and jlo but i think they were lucky dani got held up.....



rossi....... pathetic



awesome job from cal



if lorenzo was on a honda i think casey would be settling for 2nd place quite alot.

He might be settling for second place if he was on a yamaha, not so sure if both were on hondas. You pays your money and you takes your choice as they say in any case, if jorge would be better off on a honda he should have organised to be on one. He showed good judgement in organising not to be on a ducati.



Pretty hard to argue dani was unluckily held up as has been pointed out given he was the early race leader. He himself said he was too conservative early. I tend to think he and jorge both thought the arm pump thing was an excuse and that stoner had run out of tyres at qatar and was going to again. I also think it is hard to know how much stoner could have pushed had he needed to; his second last lap was actually even faster than the last lap when he took half a second from jorge.
 
Arrabi, i didnt want to be the first to mention it, but yeah, Cal is on probation. Looks like Nickys ample experience with wrecking balls, torpedoes, and loose cannons has paid off, because avoiding Cal's opening lap attempts at Scud impersonations made for considerable .... stains in my drawers reminiscent of the mystery meat "hamburger" of Silverstone.



(btw, thnx for spoiling the Moto2...i suppose its retribution for the .... stain u got from our Rosarito visit.)
 
Not me -- this is what Rossi said after the race to Italian TV: "Nicky is pointing the way".

It seems Rossi's team has reckoned they have hit a dead end trying to "transmogrify" the Ducati into something contrary to its dna. Nicky's team has been more successful, so they have now started over from Nicky's data.



NIcky in turn said: "We are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel".



I call ........ on that one. Here is why......



Had this have been a more normal weekend at Jerez-weather wise, the Ducati's would have been even further off the pace, as it stands Nicky held on through the others tentatively feeling out the track at the start and dicing with each other. After this subsided Nicky faded into complete obscurity and got beaten by a rookie on a sat Honda, both of whom only just then beat Rossi and Barbera. So all in all, across race distance the Ducati's are ....-worse than last season and more lost than ever.



I have a theory as to why.....



- The bike is ugly.......
<
No really it is, the Honda and Yam look awesome, the Ducati looks like a big block of smoothed Parmesan, fat long and low because of that lump of alloy in the middle of it, the pipe in the rear cowling looks like a Monkeys ... and the colors are horrendous.......
<




- The appearance of the bike, reflects its performance, after watching the race, I noted that all of the duck's would run wide by an extra metre or so upon corner exit, Rossi looked amateurish, particularly on corner exit, which is where the Honda just launches. The unbalanced bulk of the GP12 seems to force it wide at this crucial point, funnily enough, Rossi's ability to get the Yamaha hooked up holding a tighter line was one of his key strengths allowing him to dive up on opponents in between bends. Rossi admitted to GPone that the Ducati is very difficult to battle with-almost impossible. I feel as though the Deltabox frame has actually made this worse from last season, more stable sure, but more awkward and clumsy because of the length of that donk, and the additional weight issues the new frame has caused. Nicky burnt up his front really quickly trying to battle with the front runners, and then the midpackers, Within a couple of laps he'd lost tons of pace, wonder why?



- At present Ducati are in an interesting situation, they now have a factory team, which is starting to compete rather heavily within itself, and both sides are saying completely different things about the bike, their overall performances across the race however, are similar. There are a lot of calls for Rossi to now adapt and change his style to suit the Ducati more, ride it harder, I've changed my mind and now say, to what end? This is like saying that Apple should abandon its innovative product lines and development strategy, to produce product more like Dell or HP.......or that Coca Cola should abandon their formula and develop a blend like Dr Pepper......or Virgin should stop trying to be smart, funny, good value for money and sexy, and become seriously stuffy old corporate.....Rossi has a riding style which has earned him 9 world titles, he has beaten the best of three generations, including the currents, why change it to suit a bike that is not competitive for anyone?........The calls for Rossi to adapt are taking the heat off Ducati and buying them a little time to build their new donk, which seriously and now with the benefit of hindsight-should have been the first thing they changed. It will be interesting, I fear as though they won't be able to ever make this marriage work though-too little too late, especially in a series that now, punishes innovation instead of rewarding it.



Interestingly enough, the talk of Rossi returning to Yamaha next season is starting again, Jorge seems ok with it, with a little dig at his teammate, stating it would be good to have another top rider on the Yamaha, and Rossi seemed quite chuffed with that.



As for the race, well it had potential to start, but turned into a bit of a procession, I enjoyed Cal's performance-he deserves Spies seat on current form, and what is happening with Spies, arguably on the best package out there......? And we are critical of Rossi, Spies is really lost. Time to swap bikes boys
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Jorge screwed his tyre choice, otherwise he would have pipped Stoner IMO, Casey has issues with this rubber and it was a great performance to hold off Lorenzo Land.
 
Randy's trackside gesticulations reflected my dumfounded amazement watching at home......how the .... can a CRT bike run out of fuel???!!!!??? James...unlucky, with Randy running out of juice you would have been second in the standings. Yonny - non starter - not that we really noticed.



They didn't put in 24L of fuel? That's my guess. They made fuel calcs to reduce fuel weight, but the fuel computers are so primitive that it all went pear shaped. Same thing that happened to Ben at Monza, right? 24L of fuel for a much shorter distance, but the R1 still ran dry.
 
Nowadays I'm getting more excited watching Garry Kasparov vs. Machine in the chess world championship. Dani, Casey and Jorge are aliens but they respect each other too much. That sucks, we're talking about racing here, and mutual respect is my ..., the top 3 is looking like sissy whores. They don't need to kill each other but without any sign of rivalry emerging I can't see the series being enjoyable by the public Rossi has created. That's the reason we need Rossi up there, and quickly.



Where's Korchnoi
<
when you need him?!
<




Some people need to work up a degree of personal spite towards their opponents in order to fully focus. Mladin is arguably motorcycle racing's spit-in-your-face poster child, but Rossi was never far behind, despite the 'harmless clown' act that so many people seemed to lap up. (We all know the truth about clowns, don't we?) After a decade of nasty business, I can't say I mind the current sense of fellowship.



What you seem to want is professional wrestling on wheels. No thanks, the racing is enough for me and many others.
 
Good race. I'm surprised by how much the tires have improved the racing. Looks like we now have several different versions of Bstone front tires that provide about the same performance but different feel. The rear tire wear has added a great deal to the quality of the racing. Honestly, I didn't think the tires would single-handedly fix the racing by putting more control in the hands of the riders, but first two races of 2012 have been highly entertaining compared to the last 3 or 4 years. The racing competition has been stabilized, but I still don't know whether the 21L formula is going to bring manufacturers into the fray. The 15,000rpm rev limit will probably help, but will it be enough?



I'm cautiously optimistic that these half-measures might actually stabilize the sport, but in the long term, half measures don't usually meet the needs of the participants. I tend to think that kicking the can down the road only makes the next crisis worse, BUT the 1000cc 15,000rpm formula is technically a departure from the strict fuel-limiting they used throughout the 21L era. Perhaps it will have wider appeal, and draw interest from more than 3 manufacturers.



1. Stoner - racecraft, very nice last lap.

2. Lorenzo - mantequilla, but not quite enough

3. Dani - solid

4. Cal - used Nicky as a backstop, but really good race

5. Dovi - must be worried by Cal

6. Bautista - solid, especially since he's using Showa suspension

7. Bradl - rookie of the year

8. Hayden - drama on 2-wheels, as a fan I feel every emotion in 45 minutes or less, including disappointment
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9. Rossi - at least he beat Barbera

10. Barbera - looked to be crying about Rossi

11. Spies - give his bike to Cal and send Ben to SBK where he belongs; amassing records for the USA

12. Espargaro - never would have guessed he'd be first CRT at Jerez and highest scoring CRT through 2 rounds
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13. Petrucci - who? riding a what?

14. Pasini - 2 points is about all he can hope for

15. Ivan Silva - didn't realize he was back in the GP paddock

16. Edwards - what happened?



DNF'ers - better luck next week
 
Where's Korchnoi
<
when you need him?!
<




Some people need to work up a degree of personal spite towards their opponents in order to fully focus. Mladin is arguably motorcycle racing's spit-in-your-face poster child, but Rossi was never far behind, despite the 'harmless clown' act that so many people seemed to lap up. (We all know the truth about clowns, don't we?) After a decade of nasty business, I can't say I mind the current sense of fellowship.



What you seem to want is professional wrestling on wheels. No thanks, the racing is enough for me and many others.



Either you misinterpreted me or my english is ridiculously wrong. Well, in any case I'd bet in the latter.



I never said I'd like to see the riders clashing each other until one of them hit the ground. I just think the series need some rivalry, like Rossi did with every top rider. And Rossi never need to punch none of his opponents to achieve it.



Sorry but none of the top 3 has the balls to bring back the emotional side the series need. Yes, Rossi is not my favorite rider, but I miss him a lot as a rival figure. He's legendary, a factor that multiplies the fun of MotoGP by 10. It's nice to beat Rossi, as long as he wins too.
 
I tend to think he and jorge both thought the arm pump thing was an excuse and that stoner had run out of tyres at qatar and was going to again. I also think it is hard to know how much stoner could have pushed had he needed to; his second last lap was actually even faster than the last lap when he took half a second from jorge.

You're conflating Pedrosa and Lorenzo with Stoner haters on the intertubes. I know the latter get you all worked up, but keep it in perspective -- there's a hater for EVERY rider, and if Stoner has more than his share, well, he doesn't care so why should you.



Stoner was not keeping much in reserve -- if he was he would have taken the gap to 2 seconds and kept it there, instead of letting it fluctuate as low as .2. That doesn't mean he didn't ride a great race.
 
I call ........ on that one. Here is why......



Had this have been a more normal weekend at Jerez-weather wise, the Ducati's would have been even further off the pace, as it stands Nicky held on through the others tentatively feeling out the track at the start and dicing with each other. After this subsided Nicky faded into complete obscurity and got beaten by a rookie on a sat Honda, both of whom only just then beat Rossi and Barbera. So all in all, across race distance the Ducati's are ....-worse than last season and more lost than ever.



I have a theory as to why.....



- The bike is ugly.......
<
No really it is, the Honda and Yam look awesome, the Ducati looks like a big block of smoothed Parmesan, fat long and low because of that lump of alloy in the middle of it, the pipe in the rear cowling looks like a Monkeys ... and the colors are horrendous.......
<




- The appearance of the bike, reflects its performance, after watching the race, I noted that all of the duck's would run wide by an extra metre or so upon corner exit, Rossi looked amateurish, particularly on corner exit, which is where the Honda just launches. The unbalanced bulk of the GP12 seems to force it wide at this crucial point, funnily enough, Rossi's ability to get the Yamaha hooked up holding a tighter line was one of his key strengths allowing him to dive up on opponents in between bends. Rossi admitted to GPone that the Ducati is very difficult to battle with-almost impossible. I feel as though the Deltabox frame has actually made this worse from last season, more stable sure, but more awkward and clumsy because of the length of that donk, and the additional weight issues the new frame has caused. Nicky burnt up his front really quickly trying to battle with the front runners, and then the midpackers, Within a couple of laps he'd lost tons of pace, wonder why?



- At present Ducati are in an interesting situation, they now have a factory team, which is starting to compete rather heavily within itself, and both sides are saying completely different things about the bike, their overall performances across the race however, are similar. There are a lot of calls for Rossi to now adapt and change his style to suit the Ducati more, ride it harder, I've changed my mind and now say, to what end? This is like saying that Apple should abandon its innovative product lines and development strategy, to produce product more like Dell or HP.......or that Coca Cola should abandon their formula and develop a blend like Dr Pepper......or Virgin should stop trying to be smart, funny, good value for money and sexy, and become seriously stuffy old corporate.....Rossi has a riding style which has earned him 9 world titles, he has beaten the best of three generations, including the currents, why change it to suit a bike that is not competitive for anyone?........The calls for Rossi to adapt are taking the heat off Ducati and buying them a little time to build their new donk, which seriously and now with the benefit of hindsight-should have been the first thing they changed. It will be interesting, I fear as though they won't be able to ever make this marriage work though-too little too late, especially in a series that now, punishes innovation instead of rewarding it.



Interestingly enough, the talk of Rossi returning to Yamaha next season is starting again, Jorge seems ok with it, with a little dig at his teammate, stating it would be good to have another top rider on the Yamaha, and Rossi seemed quite chuffed with that.



As for the race, well it had potential to start, but turned into a bit of a procession, I enjoyed Cal's performance-he deserves Spies seat on current form, and what is happening with Spies, arguably on the best package out there......? And we are critical of Rossi, Spies is really lost. Time to swap bikes boys
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Jorge screwed his tyre choice, otherwise he would have pipped Stoner IMO, Casey has issues with this rubber and it was a great performance to hold off Lorenzo Land.

i agree with you about the ducati. The thing remains a pig. The industrious nicky will make the best that can be made of it as he did with the similarly porcine 2010 bike, but no amount of hard work will make it competitive with the factory japanese bikes, just as the 2010 bike was not, even for stoner, when they went with nicky's way in the first part of 2010.



Stoner and the tyres is interesting. I have to say I have had strong doubts about him being able to ride the new tyres. His "hand of god" (as someone here or elsewhere put it in discussion of practice at Qatar) riding mode which gave him the killing pace on the ducati when it worked and the honda last year seemed heavily dependent on the hard compound version of the old stiff carcass bridgestone. Jerez made me believe for the first time that his claims of versatility might be true and that the way he has ridden in the premier class previously is not the only way he can ride. I am somewhat confused about the tyres used in the race, but I gather both he and jorge went for the soft version of the old bridgestone. He has never been able to ride that tyre previously, and in particular make it last race distance, and if he has worked out how to do so he might be able to make the new construction tyre work as well.
 
You're conflating Pedrosa and Lorenzo with Stoner haters on the intertubes. I know the latter get you all worked up, but keep it in perspective -- there's a hater for EVERY rider, and if Stoner has more than his share, well, he doesn't care so why should you.

Not really. You are correct that I got annoyed by the stoner haters in the past, but he is answering them fairly eloquently with his deeds and there has been no hating after this win. I was not particularly annoyed by the post Qatar commentary as I was among the doubters as to whether tyres were his real issue myself. Lorenzo is said to have sneaked a look at stoner's tyres post race, and dani rode conservatively himself, so I suspect they were surprised he lasted the whole race.



His second last lap was faster than dani's last 10 (EDIT last 7) laps btw; admittedly dani may have settled for third not thinking he could make up 2 seconds.
 
Quote from my missus last night. "that's Stoner at the front yeah?, I could tell by just looking at him; he goes harder than the others, elbows and knees hanging right out, he's barely touching the bike when he goes around a corner and even when the bikes shaking he doesn't slow down."
 
His second last lap was faster than dani's last 10 (EDIT last 7) laps btw; admittedly dani may have settled for third not thinking he could make up 2 seconds.

Or maybe Stoner pushed as hard as he could on lap 26 and couldn't have sustained it. He won handily, no need to gild the victory.
 
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Lorenzo is gonna wipe his ... with Stoner this weekend.. $5



I'll take that bet.........

$ 5.00 you say Lorenzo will beat Stoner

I'm not blowing hot air up Stoner's ..., but he is one of the best in the wet, and so if Sunday is wet, I think it will improve his chances.



OK Curve, here's what I want you to do.

Take the $5 and go buy a lotto ticket. Post the lotto ticket in this thread.

If the ticket wins, you are shouting everyone who's posted in this thread flights and accommodation for Laguna. Jum, seriously dude, you better pray that ticket is a dud.
 
OK Curve, here's what I want you to do.

Take the $5 and go buy a lotto ticket. Post the lotto ticket in this thread.

If the ticket wins, you are shouting everyone who's posted in this thread flights and accommodation for Laguna. Jum, seriously dude, you better pray that ticket is a dud.

<
if its a winning ticket i want flight & admission sorted for PI.
 
Or maybe Stoner pushed as hard as he could on lap 26 and couldn't have sustained it. He won handily, no need to gild the victory.

I am not sure what your issue is. No-one is in any doubt that I am a stoner fan, but I don't always have an agenda (or a conscious one anyway), and pretty much managed to stay away from "I told you so" all of last year.



I was genuinely surprised that stoner lasted to the end on those tyres, and in particular that he pulled away from jorge in the last 2 laps. Having admittedly more emotionally invested in these races than is reasonable, this race was fraught for me to watch, as my expectation for nearly the whole race was that stoner wouldn't last and that jorge and dani would get him at the end and he would finish 3rd as he did in Qatar. As I said , I think jorge and dani might have been surprised as well, and dani actually said he should have pushed harder earlier in the race, and presumably didn't out of concern for his own tyres. I even wonder whether stoner had only one brand new soft and didn't do the warm up so as to save that tyre.
 

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