Jeremy Burgess Interview

Renjith said:

At first, I thought of having a long post as reply to each of your points but I am tired after the days work. So my short points are

1. I am sure Ducati would have done the same to help JL had he went there after 2010. Assuming that, I don't understand why you make it look like any factory will 'move heaven and earth' only for Rossi.

2. Other champs who rode Ducati didn't have Rossi's pedigree/history of having success in multiple classes, makes, engine configs, tyres blah..blah.. In short, rightly or not, Ducati weren't sure before 2009 it was problem with bike as they didn't trust the rider's ability.

3. Seamless gear box example was used to show that other manufacturer's work equally hard to get some advantages. I don't care how many tenths it brings

4. Ducati listening to Rossi isn't his fault. I don't defend Rossi over his faults BTW

5. Ducati is the only factory with only one alien. This would skew development more towards the alien.

5. Ducati needed change not just because Rossi struggled on it. Even Stoner, couldn't finish higher than 4th in championship for consecutive years and this underlines the fact that there was something fundamentally wrong with bike. Think of it for a minute, if they have given a bike similar to Duc 2010, do you think he would win the title in 2011? (IMO even Stoner struggled on 2010 bike)The bike needed to change.

6. I would have agreed to your argument that Ducati are making these changes to make Rossi look good if Stoner had a dominant season similar to 2007 to 2010. Alas, that's not the case. Stoner being more of a 'win-it or bin-it' rider had few wins in 2010 but had lots of DNFs which finally put him as the last of the aliens. I wouldn't consider Stoner's 2010 season a success.

7. The bias is when you suggest Rossi is struggling in every other post, but the data is inadequate(with lots of variables) to make a reasonable analysis.

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michaelm said:

I agree with most of this, including the capability of the 2006 ducati and the physical toll the 800cc ducati took on stoner, but perhaps not necessarily that they specifically wanted rossi and jb to aid re-design of the bike. They had already tried to sign jorge who does not have such a record as a developer, and as you have pointed out the supply of aliens was becoming short by the time they signed valentino whom they probably had not envisaged becoming available previously. I am sure they would be happy for rossi to win championships any way he can with or without radical re-design of the bike, but also expect there was mutual agreement about re-design if it was necessary.



I think stoner's broad smile which hasn't faded since he first hopped on the honda reflected relief at how much easier the honda was to ride as much as happiness about his prospects. Even in 2007 he had to wind himself pretty tight because even if relatively faster then the bike still didn't function well except quite near the edge.



I am still not quite sure what happened to the 2010 ducati since I didn't think the 2009 bike was too bad; I suspect tyres are somewhat involved as you do.



I see no reason why rossi should suddenly be in decline having been close to the top of his game this time last year, unless the shoulder is permanently disabling. I also agree it is unreasonable to expect him to ride it like stoner did at the end of last season even if he can (which as you say is quite possible), since this involved something like a 50% crash rate mixed in with the wins which is not the way to win world championships and not his recent habit as far as riding goes, but encountering the bike is probably what has changed his assessment of stoner from "not pushing hard enough" to "10/10 for talent and speed", but also a "madman".



Have you overheard any murmurings in Italy about the design of next year's bike?.

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J4rn0 said:

For sure Rossi was curious to test the Ducati after so many battles against Stoner, and now he has an even better appreciation of Stoner's skill and bravery. He will get much closer to Stoner's lap times once his shoulder heals completely, anyway Rossi is certainly happy that Stoner is not his teammate at Ducati...



On the other hand, Stoner also must be happy that Valentino is not there with him in the Repsol garage! Rossi would be a much harder nut to crack than Pedro or Dovi, on the Honda -- no doubt about that.



2012 is the year in which Rossi and Ducati are expected to deliver the "new" bike. That does not mean they will give up without even trying in 2011 -- they'll try of course. But they are looking at 2012.



Preziosi said there are absolutely no bars to the way development may go -- the only boundaries are the rules. There is no sentimental attachment to the current design: if it cannot evolve it will be ditched. Ducati really want to take advantage of Rossi and Burgess to lay the technical foundations for their next ten years of MotoGP efforts. It's nothing less than that, and those who refuse to see this simple truth are just blind (or self-blinded).

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Or, you could have saved space and said they will build a Yamaduc

J4rn0 said:

For sure Rossi was curious to test the Ducati after so many battles against Stoner, and now he has an even better appreciation of Stoner's skill and bravery. He will get much closer to Stoner's lap times once his shoulder heals completely, anyway Rossi is certainly happy that Stoner is not his teammate at Ducati...



On the other hand, Stoner also must be happy that Valentino is not there with him in the Repsol garage! Rossi would be a much harder nut to crack than Pedro or Dovi, on the Honda -- no doubt about that.



2012 is the year in which Rossi and Ducati are expected to deliver the "new" bike. That does not mean they will give up without even trying in 2011 -- they'll try of course. But they are looking at 2012.



Preziosi said there are absolutely no bars to the way development may go -- the only boundaries are the rules. There is no sentimental attachment to the current design: if it cannot evolve it will be ditched. Ducati really want to take advantage of Rossi and Burgess to lay the technical foundations for their next ten years of MotoGP efforts. It's nothing less than that, and those who refuse to see this simple truth are just blind (or self-blinded).

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Jumkie said:

Mike, then why even entertain the idea that Rossi was hired to "fix" Ducati? I know you like to be the diplomat and fancy an exchange with everybody, regardless how clueless or ridiculous their take is (and I suppose there is beauty in that), but again I see the idea that Rossi was hired to "fix" the bike. A bike, as you see, was in the condition to win races prior to Rossi throwing a leg over it. Now suddenly the collective conscience is that he was hired to "fix" it? Nothing could be further from the truth. Rossi was hired for one thing, as Ren said above, "to win titles". Period. Developing the bike was an afterthought. All riders are expected to develop a bike as they move along through the season, Rossi is no different, right? To counter this idea Rossi was hired to "fix" the bike, I would counter with the argument that Ducati went after Lorenzo. And as you note above, Lorenzo was head hunted to come ride for them. Why? Does Lorenzo have an extensive pedigree (true or perceived) of bike development? No, not really much to speak of, but what he does have is a reputation for being an amazing riding talent. That is what was first and foremost on Ducati's mind. NOW, things have changed (as of the test in Valencia I would say). It seems nobody really expected Rossi to struggle at Ducati, and rightly or wrongly so, after all, he's considered a current living legend still in competitive competition. I don't think he's diminished much to explain his struggling, as he is still very young, hungry, and at the top of his game (barring the shoulder injury that he has said is healing, so we can expect the "regular" Rossi to be back very soon). Simply he is struggling to match a phenomenal rider that is Stoner (hence the wholesale rationalizations going on currently), this is where most of the fall out is coming from.

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Kropotkin said:

This is exactly the feeling I get from talking to people at Ducati. They're there to help Hayden score podiums, not just get Rossi wins.

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michaelm said:

Sure, now that ducati have rossi, they will make what use they can of him, it would be irrational to do otherwise. But I don't think they had envisaged him being available or were questioning the quality of their bike when they went after lorenzo in 2009, not that the bike looked too bad then. Basically I think they decided stoner was flaky and wanted a "more reliable" alien.



I have never joined criticism of valentino not wanting an "equal" team-mate because I think it is bunkum (to borrow an american term

). I think very few top riders now or in history have truly wanted to have a team mate treated equally, and that it has actually occurred fairly rarely. Mick doohan's attitude to alex criville was very similar to valentino's towards jorge, and for similar reasons being that he thought alex was getting a free ride on the back of his development.



Stoner has seemed less concerned about his team-mates than most, but as I think you have said previously it will be interesting to see his attitude if dani is consistently competitive with him, which I agree would be even more likely to occur if rossi was his team-mate.

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J4rn0 said:

The move to hire Lorenzo was a big mistake on the part of Ducati, more than anything else. I do not think it was part of a plan, and it is probably the one thing that cost them Stoner.



They would have gone about laying new foundations for their MotoGP project anyway, as it had become clear that the current bike could not keep up with the competition much longer and was too dependent on the peculiar skills of one rider -- it was going to happen with Stoner, with Lorenzo or with anybody else. Of course the opportunity to hire Rossi and JB was a godsend in that perspective.



Those who deny that this is Ducati's priority and insist that all their efforts are just to please Rossi, are simply busy with their usual anti-Rossi propaganda.

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Frizzle said:

Sorry J4rn0

I enjoy your posts and respect your opinions, but you can't put up a post like this without copping some flak along the way.

You are saying anyone who does not agree with your opinion on this hates Rossi.

That's just wrong. There are some haters sure but not everyone feels that way.

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J4rn0 said:

Then bear with me, but the idea that an entire company with a long tradition like Ducati is now all-out trying to please just one rider, rather than pursuing its own strategic interests, is so ridiculous that it hardly amounts to a matter of opinion...

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J4rn0 said:

Then bear with me, but the idea that an entire company with a long tradition like Ducati is now all-out trying to please just one rider, rather than pursuing its own strategic interests, is so ridiculous that it hardly amounts to a matter of opinion...

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Frizzle said:

Well I posted the interview so you could get the words straight from Jeremy himself. But you cannot see reason, that much is obvious in your short time here.

This interview was straight after the Qatar race weekend after the top Ducati came 7th.

Your quote is from Valentino & was before they had had a race weekend & before the Qatar test.

Now they have to deal with Jerez & I don't think the Ducati will go well there.

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J4rn0 said:

The move to hire Lorenzo was a big mistake on the part of Ducati, more than anything else. I do not think it was part of a plan, and it is probably the one thing that cost them Stoner.



They would have gone about laying new foundations for their MotoGP project anyway, as it had become clear that the current bike could not keep up with the competition much longer and was too dependent on the peculiar skills of one rider -- it was going to happen with Stoner, with Lorenzo or with anybody else. Of course the opportunity to hire Rossi and JB was a godsend in that perspective.



Those who deny that this is Ducati's priority and insist that all their efforts are just to please Rossi, are simply busy with their usual anti-Rossi propaganda.

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Jumkie said:

This was an intellegent intelligent post.



I think the idea that Rossi was hired to make everybody else's Ducati better was fabricated out of thin air. But not without some reaching correlation. When Rossi announced his move to Ducati, there was a lag time before Burgess said he would join him. It was one of the best-kept secrets, and it provided a bit of a collective holding of breath. Why? Well because Burgess is rightly seen as a fixer of problems communicated by Rossi. He even sent out the message to the world that if given the chance, he could actually fix a problem he perceived from merely looking at the Ducati in a rather small amount of time, less than 2 minutes actually. So a few peeps took and ran with the tangential correlation that perhaps Rossi was hired to "fix" everybody else's bikes too. That was of course assuming Rossi would be able to ride the thing better than Stoner. But everything changed day 1. Now it’s the opposite, it seems all the other Ducati riders are working hard to “fix” Rossi's bike (since it appears something is wrong with it).



I agree that Ducati would be happy to see Rossi wining, and would gladly trade the four Ducati's finishing in dead last for it to happen. Does anybody here really think Ducati are not supremely focused on the outcomes of this super Italian union Rossi-Ducati?



About your take saying Rossi/Burgess “do not design bikes”. True. But I'm sure you viewed the interview for which this thread was started. Did you catch the part where Burgess says he has been given "carte blanche" to move in another direction more apropos to what they are used to? Carte blanche, that means a blank cheque, a cheque that has no numerical value entered, but is already signed; that's pretty amazing wouldn't you say. (Enter Nino, who will probably give us a link from last year stating how they don't plan on changing the Ducati's DNA or that they must operating within a tiny budget...). Now we should all be past the idea that Ducati will move heaven and earth to help Rossi (that is a given), but they are now indicating they are even willing to scrap their design philosophy! (Take a moment to take in that last statement, as it should be breathtaking for anybody who gets what's actually happening with Ducati Corse racing.)



Am I hating? Have I said anything bad about Rossi? (Or just pointing out some inconsistency in the mindless reality of some of his fans?)



I'll add, if this year isn't much improved within the next few rounds, plan D will emerge, and they will scrap this year. They can chalk it up to poor health issues (shoulder), etc. and then begin working on 2012 bike in earnest. And I think the sooner they admit they cannot match Stoner on said bike, the better, and move on. 2012 is their best bet for Rossi to go out in a blaze of glory. The Japanese manufactures will surely be hurt by the economic turmoil in Japan, and justifying the development into the new era will be difficult if not impossible because of the infrastructure and power challenges in their country.

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J4rn0 said:

For sure Rossi was curious to test the Ducati after so many battles against Stoner, and now he has an even better appreciation of Stoner's skill and bravery. He will get much closer to Stoner's lap times once his shoulder heals completely, anyway Rossi is certainly happy that Stoner is not his teammate at Ducati...



On the other hand, Stoner also must be happy that Valentino is not there with him in the Repsol garage! Rossi would be a much harder nut to crack than Pedro or Dovi, on the Honda -- no doubt about that.



2012 is the year in which Rossi and Ducati are expected to deliver the "new" bike. That does not mean they will give up without even trying in 2011 -- they'll try of course. But they are looking at 2012.



Preziosi said there are absolutely no bars to the way development may go -- the only boundaries are the rules. There is no sentimental attachment to the current design: if it cannot evolve it will be ditched. Ducati really want to take advantage of Rossi and Burgess to lay the technical foundations for their next ten years of MotoGP efforts. It's nothing less than that, and those who refuse to see this simple truth are just blind (or self-blinded).

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mylexicon said:

I was just thinking.....Ducati have got to upgrade one way or another but what are the chances that this has to do with "race-only production bikes"?



If Parrish refers to the Ducati as the last true prototype, I'm sure he's referring to a score of artisans hand-filing parts until the bike is within tolerances. Lots of waste. Lots of inconsistency. Imo, Ducati can't participate in "race-only production bikes" until they upgrade Corse to ISO 9000 (or whatever) like the Japanese are ostensibly capable of replicating in their race factories.



Have you heard any rumblings about returning to homologation specials for WSBK as well? If Ducati are upgrading Corse, I'm sure they aren't doing it just for GP. Corse has operated primarily as a WSBK operation from the 90s until the early 2000s. We know the manufacturers brokered some kind of deal that involved both MotoGP and WSBK. The Flamminis seem to be content.



I don't know. All I know is that it's all quiet on the Western Front even though it should be unrestricted warfare on the Western Front with the MotoGP "Concorde" changes for 2012, the CRT rules, and the ongoing complaints by the Flamminis about the prohibitive cost of running modern superbikes and supersport bikes (primarily electronics and engine regulations). Imo, something big is happening behind the scenes, and I'm wondering if you've got a scoop.

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Keshav said:

I never thought of it as anti-Rossi propaganda. Rather, I'd say, people were pointing out Ducati's stubborn insistence on engineering bikes

that value uniqueness over utility - and what a disaster it's been for the riders they have hired. If they hadn't been so willfully blind to the

inadequacy of the chassis design, and "moved heaven and earth" to create a bike that didn't have so many issues that necessitated so much

rider compensation - they could have; A. kept Stoner, and at a fairly discounted rate of pay. and B. won more championships in the last 3 years.



There's a lot of talk about Ducati keeping Rossi happy. Personally - I don't think that's the core issue. It's keeping the riding public and the

race fans (yes - especially fans of Vale) happy. After all, that's who they're marketing to. They're not trying to sell anything to Rossi.

He's an employee and regardless, will be a pro and promote the brand with his usual panache.

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Nino said:

So this bollocks is still doing the rounds? The Rossi haters will happily ignore the truth to their 'point' across.

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