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From what I've seen so far, the Honda has more straight line speed than the Ducati, and it doesn't have understeer like the Desmo.
Interestingly enough Nick and Gavin basically confirmed (with overwhelming circumstantial evidence) that Ducati Corse is getting an overhaul. Apparently, Stoner was never able to use two bikes during his tenure at Ducati b/c the quality control was not sufficient that he could move setting from one bike to another. Using just one bike caused Stoner a great deal of stress.
Imo, this entire "making the bike more rideable" is actually "making the bike more predictable". What good is a satellite bike if the base settings don't even work consistently on the bikes delivered from Ducati Corse? I don't wish to undermine Ducati's craftsmanship too much, but these stories sound like something you'd hear out of the Japanese factories during the 1990s when people like Schwantz and Rainey would sift through a half-dozen hand-built frames before they found one that worked like the frame it was replacing.
According to Nick and Gav, Stoner pushed very hard for "a more rideable bike" but the money was never available. Rossi didn't bring a lot of money with him so it makes you wonder where Ducati are getting the money? Factory investment is certainly a possibility, but that would basically prove what Casey has been saying about Ducati not caring about him. I don't think that is entirely true, though we know Marlboro certainly didn't care about him. I think it is more likely that Rossi is the source of the money, but in the absence of new ticker-tape sponsors, it makes it look like Dorna might be behind it. Important b/c I thought they were bank rolling the Rossi to Ducati, but it looks like they are bankrolling Rossi's new Ducati Corse factory.
How could Dorna bankroll a new Ducati factory? It's more business than conspiracy. Dorna are signing individual contracts with manufacturers not with the MSMA starting in 2012. There is no reason Dorna can't have signed Ducati for another 5 year extension, and it isn't uncommon for the commercial rights holders to front the teams money prior to the actual execution of the contract (apparently this is how F1 got it's new teams). Basically, Ducati would use the upfront money to buy new equipment and personnel while they use the 5 year contract (future revenues) to obtain loans to purchase additional fixed assets.
I'm not sure, I'm just throwing it out there b/c the conventional theory is that Stoner got snubbed by Ducati. I think it is more likely that changes to the "Concorde" Agreement and Rossi's ability to sway Dorna's business operations (including scoring Bridgestones for himself) that have brought financial flexibility to Ducati Corse. Burgess has the expertise to re-engineer Corse to function like a Japanese factory, imo.
Imo, this entire "making the bike more rideable" is actually "making the bike more predictable". What good is a satellite bike if the base settings don't even work consistently on the bikes delivered from Ducati Corse? I don't wish to undermine Ducati's craftsmanship too much, but these stories sound like something you'd hear out of the Japanese factories during the 1990s when people like Schwantz and Rainey would sift through a half-dozen hand-built frames before they found one that worked like the frame it was replacing.
According to Nick and Gav, Stoner pushed very hard for "a more rideable bike" but the money was never available. Rossi didn't bring a lot of money with him so it makes you wonder where Ducati are getting the money? Factory investment is certainly a possibility, but that would basically prove what Casey has been saying about Ducati not caring about him. I don't think that is entirely true, though we know Marlboro certainly didn't care about him. I think it is more likely that Rossi is the source of the money, but in the absence of new ticker-tape sponsors, it makes it look like Dorna might be behind it. Important b/c I thought they were bank rolling the Rossi to Ducati, but it looks like they are bankrolling Rossi's new Ducati Corse factory.
How could Dorna bankroll a new Ducati factory? It's more business than conspiracy. Dorna are signing individual contracts with manufacturers not with the MSMA starting in 2012. There is no reason Dorna can't have signed Ducati for another 5 year extension, and it isn't uncommon for the commercial rights holders to front the teams money prior to the actual execution of the contract (apparently this is how F1 got it's new teams). Basically, Ducati would use the upfront money to buy new equipment and personnel while they use the 5 year contract (future revenues) to obtain loans to purchase additional fixed assets.
I'm not sure, I'm just throwing it out there b/c the conventional theory is that Stoner got snubbed by Ducati. I think it is more likely that changes to the "Concorde" Agreement and Rossi's ability to sway Dorna's business operations (including scoring Bridgestones for himself) that have brought financial flexibility to Ducati Corse. Burgess has the expertise to re-engineer Corse to function like a Japanese factory, imo.
Spalding also had some interesting information about the rules changes starting back in 2008/2009 through the present. He confirmed/theorized that Suzuki suffered from the only logical source of their problems--the tires. Everyone like to dog on Suzuki for refusing to spend money, but Spalding said that tire changes caught them out during 2008-2009. I think it is reasonable to assume that Kawasaki was also caught out by the changes, and considering the amount of money they spent to improve their GP effort, I think it is at least plausible that Kawasaki's angry withdrawal was attributable to the tire changes.
Spalding also said that Suzuki are struggling with which engine configuration they want to use for 2012. Suzuki make very good I-4s and stroking the engines to 48.5mm will create more torque which might make it beneficial to put more weight over the front. Personally, I think Suzuki will stay with a V configuration b/c I don't think they have well-developed I-4 big bang technologies, but it is at least interesting Suzuki are mulling the idea of an I-4.
Spalding also said that Suzuki are struggling with which engine configuration they want to use for 2012. Suzuki make very good I-4s and stroking the engines to 48.5mm will create more torque which might make it beneficial to put more weight over the front. Personally, I think Suzuki will stay with a V configuration b/c I don't think they have well-developed I-4 big bang technologies, but it is at least interesting Suzuki are mulling the idea of an I-4.
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We have only had one race, and a Ducati had the top speed by a long shot.
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Spalding also had some interesting information about the rules changes starting back in 2008/2009 through the present.He confirmed/theorized that Suzuki suffered from the only logical source of their problems--the tires. Everyone like to dog on Suzuki for refusing to spend money, but Spalding said that tire changes caught them out during 2008-2009. I think it is reasonable to assume that Kawasaki was also caught out by the changes, and considering the amount of money they spent to improve their GP effort, I think it is at least plausible that Kawasaki's angry withdrawal was attributable to the tire changes.
Spalding also said that Suzuki are struggling with which engine configuration they want to use for 2012. Suzuki make very good I-4s and stroking the engines to 48.5mm will create more torque which might make it beneficial to put more weight over the front. Personally, I think Suzuki will stay with a V configuration b/c I don't think they have well-developed I-4 big bang technologies, but it is at least interesting Suzuki are mulling the idea of an I-4.
If you confirm a theory, is it still a theory
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Last i heard, corporations were lining up to throw money at Ducati once Rossi signed.
If you confirm a theory, is it still a theory
The 2008 Bridgestone was different that the 2007 Bridgestone. Even the casual armchair fans will remember the introduction of the Rossi-Stoner front tire and the squishy Bridgestone edges. Why and when the tires were changed is a matter of debate.
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It seems reasonable to think that with Rossi on board, Ducati might be putting a substantially higher price tag on sponsorships.
Also - the stakes being so much higher with
Moreover - one needn't be a conspiracy theorist to speculate that the Italian govt. might be offering some not-so-under-the-table
help in the form of low or interest free loans inasmuch as the duo of Duki and Rossi are a powerful force for nationalistic pride in the manufacturing field etc. Pardon the strained quality of the last sentence. I have a headache and and finding it hard to be more concise.
It seems reasonable to think that with Rossi on board, Ducati might be putting a substantially higher price tag on sponsorships.
Also - the stakes being so much higher withathe Italian rider Ducati might be willing to dig deeper in their own pockets.
Moreover - one needn't be a conspiracy theorist to speculate that the Italian govt. might be offering some not-so-under-the-table
help in the form of low or interest free loans inasmuch as the duo of Duki and Rossi are a powerful force for nationalistic pride in the manufacturing field etc. Pardon the strained quality of the last sentence. I have a headache and and finding it hard to be more concise.
True. Perhaps the Italian government is even a better suggestion for the source of funding during a down economy. They do love to meddle in motorsports, don't they?
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An interesting snippet in this fortnight's australian motor cycle news, purporting to be partly directly quoting jb and valentino, unsourced as to when and to whom, as is their wont.
"(Ducati faces a race against time to implement major design changes in a bid to salvage Valentino Rossi's world championship campaign.
And the famed Desmosedici V4 engine could undergo open-heart surgery as part of a revamp that will include changes to the carbon-fibre frame and swingarm.
Rossi and his crew chief jeremy Burgess provided a priority list following last week's Qatar GP with Ducati technical director Filippo Presiozi convening urgent meetings in Bologna.
Burgess says that "engine response could be key to solving the chronic understeer that rossi is experiencing.
A re-design of internal parts is on the list with a heavier mass crankshaft rumoured as a solution.
"One could think it is a chassis issue but it could easily be an engine response problem, the basic hardware in the engine", Burgess said.
"There are lots of things that fly around in engines and some of those parts are far more important than a lot of people think.
"So we'll be looking at changing some of that so that we better understand the problem."
Burgess said that electronics alone can't alter engine response to a level demanded in MotoGP.)"
Later in the same article:
"(After finishing seventh in Qatar, 16 seconds behind Casey Stoner, Rossi was clear that set-up changes were not the solution: "You can't fix this with the setting - we need to work in a bigger area".
Burgess said he is confident that Ducati will mobilise resources to deliver some "big options" for the test-day at Estoril following the Portuguese GP.)"
I make no representations as to the veracity of all this, although AMCN as discussed previously do tend to be fairly reliable. I am not sure who valentino in particular would make this kind of statement to though.
"(Ducati faces a race against time to implement major design changes in a bid to salvage Valentino Rossi's world championship campaign.
And the famed Desmosedici V4 engine could undergo open-heart surgery as part of a revamp that will include changes to the carbon-fibre frame and swingarm.
Rossi and his crew chief jeremy Burgess provided a priority list following last week's Qatar GP with Ducati technical director Filippo Presiozi convening urgent meetings in Bologna.
Burgess says that "engine response could be key to solving the chronic understeer that rossi is experiencing.
A re-design of internal parts is on the list with a heavier mass crankshaft rumoured as a solution.
"One could think it is a chassis issue but it could easily be an engine response problem, the basic hardware in the engine", Burgess said.
"There are lots of things that fly around in engines and some of those parts are far more important than a lot of people think.
"So we'll be looking at changing some of that so that we better understand the problem."
Burgess said that electronics alone can't alter engine response to a level demanded in MotoGP.)"
Later in the same article:
"(After finishing seventh in Qatar, 16 seconds behind Casey Stoner, Rossi was clear that set-up changes were not the solution: "You can't fix this with the setting - we need to work in a bigger area".
Burgess said he is confident that Ducati will mobilise resources to deliver some "big options" for the test-day at Estoril following the Portuguese GP.)"
I make no representations as to the veracity of all this, although AMCN as discussed previously do tend to be fairly reliable. I am not sure who valentino in particular would make this kind of statement to though.
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so now the goal has been lowered to outrace crutchlow and aoyama?
Yes.....ummmm, perhaps I over-estimated him?
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Really, that's a big allegation.
Rossi's brought some big sponsorship money according to Motomatters, and it's why Ducati were happy to chase Rossi and Lorenzo and see Stoner leave. Stoner wasn't/isn't marketable in Europe.
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But why would Dorna back a company that has such a huge factory investment with their direct competitors, ie. the Flaminis WSBK ) ............
oh!
I like your conspiracy
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Is every post of yours way off logic wishful thinking ?
Have you got any evidence showing that? Because it seems like totally the opposite to every other bit of info. out there.
Cos there have been several folk regretting Stoner leaving Ducat, indeed they threw him a bye bye party ........ probably so they don't burn any bridges with him ....... as Guareschi said " I hope he comes back some day" ........ ie. they would have him back tomorrow.
The way things are going I think they'd even dump Rossi for Stoner
Lets face it, its looking like Rossi has even made the bike worse for the other riders, let alone himself.
I can't believe the backward step Hayden has taken since Rossi came ....... why is that
http://admin.motorcyclenews.com/MCN...10-new-ducati-boss-determined-to-keep-stoner/
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...11-ducati-boss-surprised-at-stoner-departure/
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Is every post of yours way off logic wishful thinking ?
Have you got any evidence showing that? Because it seems like totally the opposite to every other bit of info. out there.
Cos there have been several folk regretting Stoner leaving Ducat, indeed they threw him a bye bye party ........ probably so they don't burn any bridges with him ....... as Guareschi said " I hope he comes back some day" ........ ie. they would have him back tomorrow.
The way things are going I think they'd even dump Rossi for Stoner
Lets face it, its looking like Rossi has even made the bike worse for the other riders, let alone himself.
I can't believe the backward step Hayden has taken since Rossi came ....... why is that?
http://admin.motorcyclenews.com/MCN...10-new-ducati-boss-determined-to-keep-stoner/
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/s...11-ducati-boss-surprised-at-stoner-departure/
In MotoGP it is only thanks to his ability that we were able to win the world championship in 2007.”
Everyone at Ducati, from the big boss, down to test rider 'Guareschi' turned team manager knew the score. They knew the bike was junk, and if not for Stoner, they could have very easily been out of the sport. Ducatis fortunes as a company with Stoner aboard went really well, especially considering the economic climate. How long before the motorcycle community starts mumbling those dreaded words that haunted Ducati in the past.
"Overpriced piece of ....". Stoner winning gave the company street cred, Imagine what Rossi losing, and losing big will do.
But why would Dorna back a company that has such a huge factory investment with their direct competitors, ie. the Flaminis WSBK ) ............
The endgame if for Dorna to get control of the rulebook which means they've got to buy MSMA members with individual commercial rights contracts. They don't care whether Ducati play WSBK or not. Dorna need MSMA votes, and they need manufacturers who can play along with this production race-only bikes the FIM wants to implement. Corse has got to be retooled and it needs an operations manager (Burgess) who knows how the Japanese factories work.
