Is Lorenzo a worthy champion?

cuckoo bird

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It would not make a difference whether Stoner is around or not, maybe worse if Stoner is around, he would have got his ... whipped by two riders instead of just one rider.

And that would make him even more undeserving champion.

What Pedrosa knew was that, if you have the luck of Lucky Lorenzo, you are guranteed a championship...Lorenzo is really that lucky. With such luck for Lorenzo, and such bad luck for his rivals, there is no way anyone else would have taken that title in 2012

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 As a Pedrosa Fan to another Pedrosa Fan I did what I had to do to get you out of your emotional Shell .... Sometimes its advised to trust  the more experienced members when you are new to a forum and not start a debate (I don't have problem with the Topic itself). I'm not talking about myself but lot of great members tried to help you get your mind clear, it didn't work. I told myslef maybe a Pedrosa fan can help. It did not work either. So Why Bother?? 


 


GoodLuck And Enjoy The Sport!!!!


 


Cheers

cuckoo bird

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Giving up on a potential constructive debate shows that you share Stoner's characteristics of hiding away from challenges.

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OR...


 


I've played this "worthiness" game with lots of other newbietards who's biased emotional baggage blindered them to reality. I am also a seer of sorts and can read your future... its becoming clearer... yes... its coming into focus... THERE! I see it! You will soon leave the forum in a huff when you discover that not one person shares your particular bias and that we tire quickly of one trick ponies.


 


BTW I believe you have mistaken the word 'debate' for the word 'pontificate".

Keshav

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Just like the boogeyman. Just childrens tales. Dinnna concern yer wee self. Just shut yer tiny peepers and dream of the return of MacRossi who's sure to put the tilt back in yer kilt.

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Och the stories o the bogey man scared me shitless as a wee laddie.....the ghost of a bitter and twisted wee man whose greetin and moanin could freeze the blood. They said he had teeth that could chew through wood, an ears so large he could hear what was said in Aberdeen when he wiz in Edinburgh.......We were told that the only way tae keep yoursel safe wiz tae sleep wi a glass o milk by yer bed, and never tae say the words ambition and talent during a full moon......

Pete.


 


What god fearing Scot over the age of five would buy that crap. Even a six year old Scot wouldn't sleep with milk if there was a wee dram of the good stuff aboot!

Mick D

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kingcobra - save your breath (or in this case keystrokes). You cannot enlighten an irrational person.

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U sound like the irrational person Mick. If U dont or cant engage cookoo bird then dont. Kingcobra has been attempting to debate rather unemotional and logically. Butt the .... out and let him.

mh_kingcobra

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kingcobra - save your breath (or in this case keystrokes). You cannot enlighten an irrational person.


I was just hitting my poor keystrokes to death till I saw your post and reconsidered. Thanks alot ... Silence Treatment Has Shown A Lot Of Possitive Effect On Mentally Challenged Guys, But I dont know if it will work for emotional fanboys. This is why I try for one more post and then I'm done. In Silence Treatment We Trust.


...


Hope It helps widen your point of view more.


Cheers

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I was enjoying ur thoughtful posts and exchange with cookoo bird. While reading ur posts i was reflecting on the season Lorenzo put together and the management of his title (which like the other title) he managed until the deal was sealed. He didnt succumb to the temptation in the heat of battle to jeopardize the champiinship, even when bloated ego man VR himself had tried to fluster him in 2010.


Please King Cobra, continue. I dont know why shepherd wanabe MickD is so hard pressed to hurd everybody inline, but dont listen to him. Please continue.

Jumkie

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I was enjoying ur thoughtful posts and exchange with cookoo bird. While reading ur posts i was reflecting on the season Lorenzo put together and the management of his title (which like the other title) he managed until the deal was sealed. He didnt succumb to the temptation in the heat of battle to jeopardize the champiinship, even when bloated ego man VR himself had tried to fluster him in 2010.


Please King Cobra, continue. I dont know why shepherd wanabe MickD is so hard pressed to hurd everybody inline, but dont listen to him. Please continue.

 

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It is a very cool thing to hear this from an experienced guy like you Jumkie, Thanks man, I think I said what I had to say and there is nothing more to add to this debate. I have to admit I had Cookoo's feeling when Lorenzo won the title. But I'm Lucky my father watches the races with me and he is more a Lorenzo fan (Not a big fan, he just wants to add some heat to the races) than a Pedrosa fan, He got my head out of my ... after the end of season and I realised Jorge won it fair and square. It is a really great thing happening in this forum. Guys like you hate Pedrosa , I am his fan, But when we don't get emotional and think directly we can learn from each other more and more. This is the way I choose to learn from you guys in Powerslide, Cookoo has to be like that too instead of talkbacking and saying the same things over and over just to make a point.


 


Thanks again dear friend


 


Cheers

mh_kingcobra

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It is a very cool thing to hear this from an experienced guy like you Jumkie, Thanks man, I think I said what I had to say and there is nothing more to add to this debate. I have to admit I had Cookoo's feeling when Lorenzo won the title. But I'm Lucky my father watches the races with me and he is more a Lorenzo fan (Not a big fan, he just wants to add some heat to the races) than a Pedrosa fan, He got my head out of my ... after the end of season and I realised Jorge won it fair and square. It is a really great thing happening in this forum. Guys like you hate Pedrosa , I am his fan, But when we don't get emotional and think directly we can learn from each other more and more. This is the way I choose to learn from you guys in Powerslide, Cookoo has to be like that too instead of talkbacking and saying the same things over and over just to make a point.


 


Thanks again dear friend


 


Cheers

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That's just why I love this place

cuckoo bird

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It would not make a difference whether Stoner is around or not, maybe worse if Stoner is around, he would have got his ... whipped by two riders instead of just one rider.

And that would make him even more undeserving champion.

What Pedrosa knew was that, if you have the luck of Lucky Lorenzo, you are guranteed a championship...Lorenzo is really that lucky. With such luck for Lorenzo, and such bad luck for his rivals, there is no way anyone else would have taken that title in 2012

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Jesus kid just give up.....you must be a joy to have normal conversations with at the dinner table.


 


 


And for the rest of the <u>real </u>powersliders, i want to say congrats, I for the first time we are united together sharing the same viewpoint!

Jumkie

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U sound like the irrational person Mick. If U dont or cant engage cookoo bird then dont. Kingcobra has been attempting to debate rather unemotional and logically. Butt the .... out and let him.

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Yes, Monsieur Contrairement, as predictable as a dung beetle y'ar...


 
Ngads

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Jesus kid just give up.....you must be a joy to have normal conversations with at the dinner table.


 


 


And for the rest of the <u>real </u>powersliders, i want to say congrats, I for the first time we are united together sharing the same viewpoint!

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Except for Jum, who's about to write a 1500 word essay on what a good debater the crazy bird is!

Mick D

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Yes, Monsieur Contrairement, as predictable as a dung beetle y'ar...


 


Except for Jum, who's about to write a 1500 word essay on what a good debater the crazy bird is!

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Thanks to bluegreen, I know now why you've been acting like such a cnut lately.  No worries, the <strike>....</strike> puck will drop soon.  Against my hometown LA Kings no less.  

forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jorge on his last two engines from Brno?  my thoughts are that Yamaha detuned the engine, so it wouldn't go pop, from Brno to Oz.  I say detuned because I don't think the bike was as competitive as it was in the first half of the season, and the wick was turned back up for the last race of the year.


 


Pedro, once he got his settings dialed in, rode the best he has ever done in the second half of the season.  Honda would have taken all the effort usually devoted to Stoner and given their all to help Dani, makes sense.  Again, I think Dani had at least one spare engine at Brno.  I've always thought him as an 'also ran,' until 2012 season, capable of winning the odd race but not becoming champion.  If Dani can compete at the same level as he ended the season, he can be serious competition for Jorge.


 


So for two DNFs and finishing no lower than second, same as his first time, yes, he certainly deserved another title.  I've seen riders who have had little more than sheer fortune winning championships and, bar one rider, I would never question if they were worthy or not.  I've been a fan of Jorge's since around 2004 and always was aware of his potential and hoped that one day he would be MotoGP champion.  Even in the days of 'The Wall', it was obvious that he was seen as a threat.  The Wall just emphasised my dislike for his teammate, Mr "I can't ride with Jorge stealing my limelight" has come running back with his tail between his legs.


 


Oh no, the withdrawal symptoms are really beginning to kick in!!

skaface

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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jorge on his last two engines from Brno?  My thoughts are that Yamaha detuned the engine, so it wouldn't go pop, from Brno to Oz.  I say detuned because I don't think the bike was as competitive as it was in the first half of the season, and the wick was turned back up for the last race of the year.


 


Pedro, once he got his settings dialed in, rode the best he has ever done in the second half of the season.  Honda would have taken all the effort usually devoted to Stoner and given their all to help Dani, makes sense.  Again, I think Dani had at least one spare engine at Brno.  I've always thought him as an 'also ran,' until 2012 season, capable of winning the odd race but not becoming champion.  If Dani can compete at the same level as he ended the season, he can be serious competition for Jorge.


 


So for two DNFs and finishing no lower than second, same as his first time, yes, he certainly deserved another title.  I've seen riders who have had little more than sheer fortune winning championships and, bar one rider, I would never question if they were worthy or not.  I've been a fan of Jorge's since around 2004 and always was aware of his potential and hoped that one day he would be MotoGP champion.  Even in the days of 'The Wall', it was obvious that he was seen as a threat.  The Wall just emphasized my dislike for his teammate, Mr "I can't ride with Jorge stealing my limelight" has come running back with his tail between his legs.


 


Oh no, the withdrawal symptoms are really beginning to kick in!!

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Jorge's Yamaha didn't slow down, the Hondas sped up.


 


As near as I can tell, Yamaha never had to drastically limit Lorenzo's engine, at least as far as raw RPM is concerned.  Toward the end of the year he was still hitting ~16,200 during qualifying and on a push-to-pass basis.  (That's not to say Jorge wasn't short shifting a little more than usual.)  Throughout the year Yamaha seemed a bit more conservative with their revs; their riders often upshifting in the mid 15,000 zone during races.


 


Honda riders, on the other hand, were pretty much free to wring the bike's neck.  Even the satellite guys were racing in the low 16,xxx as a matter of course.


 


During the last 4~5 races Honda increased their rev limit from ~162xx to ~16,600.  Both Pedrosa and Stoner were routinely racing at these revs without any apparent concern.  This slight improvement in an already powerful engine, coupled with an improving chassis, let Honda finish the year with a steamroller of a motorcycle.

cuckoo bird

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Lorenzo, Spain's most successful MotoGP racer, a double world champion.



But is Lorenzo really a worthy champion? Lets analyze -




First title in 2010 -

Rossi was the main challenger, but broke his legs in Mugello Free Practise session. Leaving a clear path to the title for Lorenzo. Title was literally handed on the plate to him.

Casey Stoner, arguably fastest rider of the current generation was plagued by ill handling Ducati, could not offer serious challenge.

Just as Pedrosa was beginning to mount a serious challenge later in the season, he broke his collar bone due to brake failure in Motegi.

What Lorenzo needs to do is just to ride and collect points and wins, all the challenges had been removed one after another.




Second title in 2012 -

Lorenzo had it handed to him on the plate several times this season.

At the beginning, Casey Stoner made some mistakes and injured himself.

While during early season, Pedrosa was handicapped by base setup issues, and not be able to ride to his capability.

But as soon as Pedrosa found a good setup, he began to kick Lorenzo in the @ss in every race, from Indianapolis till Valencia -

Pedrosa - 6 race wins

Lorenzo - 1 race win (gifted to him when Pedrosa was T-boned in first lap)


I had never seen a champion being outclassed and outridden in such an extended period by a rival since Nicky Hayden.

And Pedrosa is considered second class next to a healthy Casey Stoner, yet still beat Lorenzo with ease.





So the question that many ask, is Lorenzo a real worthy (double) champion?

Will Lorenzo win any title at all with all things being equal?

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Hell yes.Pedrosa's winningstreak was because Lorenzo played it safe IMO.


Lorenzo and Pedrosa was the best riders (and Stoner ofcourse) 2012 by far.Maybe Pedrosa got some boosted confidence but i'll bet this year Lorenzo is going to beat Pedrosa over and over again until the title is nearing.Unless Marquez can force them both to take chances till the end that is.

Ask Emilio Alzamora.

cuckoo bird

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Lorenzo playing it safe is just a convenient excuse used to explain why Lorenzo is slower than Pedrosa. I had never seen a rider playing it safe 8 races before the end of the season. No such strategy.


Dear Powersliders, please do correct me if I am wrong.

Is there any such thing as playing it safe with 8 races to go, letting the points lead drop from 30 over down to 18 points, unnecessarily putting oneself into pressure zone?

Is there any such strategy?

Once the gap was down to 18 points, Lucky Lorenzo got another lucky break when Pedrosa was T-Boned in Misano. How lucky can one ever be? Only person who can be luckier is Lorenzo.

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Cuckoo I had a  big exam 2 hours ago and if I get a low grade it is all your fault, because you keep on saying the same thing over and over again and I'm answering to you since yesterday ( Just Kidding)


Here it goes once again: In Statistical Mathematics there is a distribution function called the "Binomial distribution" where you value things with a 1 or a 0 (Just Like True False parameters) , This is what you are doing with this case and it is not an accurate way to analyze a complicated thing like a riders behaviour. Now that the season is over you are making judgments about things that happend during a season while you keep your point of view at the end of the season and your looking at it at as a whole package, If you want to look closely to what happend rewind your mind back to round 10, 11 and 12 befor the Misano incident, Casey won the Round 10 with Honda's powerfull engine and Stoner's brilliant pass just like the way he did it in 2011, Round 11 Indianapolis, Slippery circuit with long straights, Stoner is out but both Honda and Pedrosa are good at the circuit so he nails his 2nd victory, Jorge is still being on top and he has 5 victories, We go to Brno were it is more a Yamaha circuit but Pedrosa outsmarted Lorenzo and won it again, very tight race and Lorenzo was still pushing and pushing (Don't tell me his overtake on the last lap was not something special), Lorenzo 5 victories, Pedrosa the 3rd victory. round 12 the Misano incident happend and Pedrosa lost 25 points, THIS IS THE PART LORENZO STARTED TO PLAY HIS CRUISE CONTROL MODE, Look at qualifyings and pole positions from round 12 till the last round, Pedrosa was the top man but Lorenzo was getting the poles, It means that he goes for a win but never pushes it hard like Pedrosa. 


I said before Lorenzo knew what he was doing from Qatar but that doesn't mean he didn't have any Plan B's or whatever, Every top rider starts the season with one target nad that is the title, but with keeping his whole strategy he might change his behaviour when unaccepted things happen, Like when Stoner got injured or Pedrosa lost Misano. The guy knows what he is doing my friend. Here is another Qoute that might help you a little bit,


Don Micheal Corleone (Al Pacino) In Godfather Part III Says: "Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment."


Stop underestimating the 2012 champion just because you don't like his style or strategies my friend!!!!