Indy practice quali and predictions

povol · Aug 20, 2012

chopperman said:
Well i remember many years ago Honda threatening to pull out of gp if they didn't get their way. The threat had to be taken seriously as they fielded a very large percentage of the grid. Ducati did the same in WSB. What would todays grid look like if the big H pulled out? there's their veto !

And that has been my contention all along, that Gp would cease to exist without Honda. They have carried the series through thick and thin, and the other manufacturers know it.

povol · Aug 20, 2012

chopperman said:
Yeah and ironically that win cost Rossi the championship

Back to chicken and egg.That 5 points means nothing compared to the loss of points caused by Pedro, and Rossi himself

povol · Aug 20, 2012

yamaka46 said:
SNSs were not made for Rossi and handed out to other favoured riders. Several riders (admittedly favoured in the old chicken & egg situation in that you had to be good to get your own SNSs....) had SNSs built to their own specifications. Elias got Pedrosa's spare SNSs at Estoril '06 and won on them.

You dont really believe that, do you ?

chopperman · Aug 20, 2012

povol said:
Back to chicken and egg.That 5 points means nothing compared to the loss of points caused by Pedro, and Rossi himself

Did you forget the very same rider took Rossi out at Assen 06. So the 5 pts was just salt in the wounds. The irony being Elias won the race on sns's

Didn't that crash also break Rossi's wrist?

chopperman · Aug 20, 2012

povol said:
You dont really believe that, do you ?

Sns tyre were made rider specific. They were not all the same for the riders with that Michelin contract that gave them access to them. They were build to that particular riders data requirements. That's how Michelin tyres worked unlike Bridgstone which were more general purpose.

Tom · Aug 20, 2012

chopperman said:
Did you forget the very same rider took Rossi out at Assen 06. So the 5 pts was just salt in the wounds. The irony being Elias won the race on sns's

Didn't that crash also break Rossi's wrist?

Crossed wires maybe? Rossi and Elias came together in turn one at Jerez, in what was realistically an unfortunate and blameless incident. Rossi broke his wrist crashing alone in assen practice. I don't buy into the signifcance of Elias in the title race overall the way some do, the season is long and varied and the champ has to do the job week in week out regardless of the circumstances, thats the game.

chopperman · Aug 20, 2012

Tom said:
Crossed wires maybe? Rossi and Elias came together in turn one at Jerez, in what was realistically an unfortunate and blameless incident. Rossi broke his wrist crashing alone in assen practice. I don't buy into the signifcance of Elias in the title race overall the way some do, the season is long and varied and the champ has to do the job week in week out regardless of the circumstances, thats the game.

I agree Tom, but i was just pointing out the irony in the context of the "only rossi got sns and thats why he won" debate.

Tom · Aug 20, 2012

chopperman said:
I agree Tom, but i was just pointing out the irony in the context of the "only rossi got sns and thats why he won" debate.

Yes I appreciate your point, I agree that it is far from that simple

yamaka46 · Aug 20, 2012

povol said:
You dont really believe that, do you ?

Yes, I do believe that SNS tyres were made for multiple riders, not just Rossi.

Provide proof that the SNS tyres were just for Rossi and that all riders with SNS tyres only had the Rossi formula/compound please.

Edit: proof maybe too hard, at the very least least a link implying that everyone got Rossi branded SNS tyres from something other than Soup or the Comic

birdman · Aug 20, 2012

chopperman said:
I don't think leaving after your contract has been fulfilled can be deemed as "walking out". If that were the case then most could be accused of walking out.

The point was not whether he walked out mid contract, the point was that Rossi has the power to decide what he wants and when on his terms. He naturally does what suits him, not what suits the greater good. The question I have is why would Honda do the opposite and sit around thinking of ways to help their competition rather than do like Rossi and just take care of themselves. The governing body is the only player in the position to ensure the greater good of the competition, because by simple economics all the other players will always act in self interest.

J4rn0 · Aug 20, 2012

povol said:
The question is why? Why would they let Honda ride roughshod over them if they didnt like what was being proposed.

Why did two out of the other three Jap manufacturers leave? They voted with their feet.

birdman · Aug 20, 2012

J4rn0 said:
Why did two out of the other three Jap manufacturers leave? They voted with their feet.

How could Honda have prevented that? By deliberately dumbing down the series I suppose. Every competitive sport heads the same way, to unobtainium as you put it. Juventus and Inter Milan do not go around divising ways of evening out the competition. Player salaries dont go down over time. They buy up players because the biggest budget ensures the best players which then creates unobtainium for the rest. Motogp will always be the same, it depends on a strong governing body to keep it in check. This hate Honda is a convenient diversion. People must be blind. Voting with your feet happens when corruption is involved. The most unprofessional conduct I have seen in the last 10 years was not Honda, it was when Ezpeleta made the comment that Rossi would be on a competitive bike next year. For ..... sake this the head of Motogp. In any other sport he would have been sacked immediately. But somehow this guy survives, because the show must roll on!

povol · Aug 20, 2012

birdman said:
How could Honda have prevented that? By deliberately dumbing down the series I suppose. Every competitive sport heads the same way, to unobtainium as you put it. Juventus and Inter Milan do not go around divising ways of evening out the competition. Player salaries dont go down over time. They buy up players because the biggest budget ensures the best players which then creates unobtainium for the rest. Motogp will always be the same, it depends on a strong governing body to keep it in check. This hate Honda is a convenient diversion. People must be blind. Voting with your feet happens when corruption is involved. The most unprofessional conduct I have seen in the last 10 years was not Honda, it was when Ezpeleta made the comment that Rossi would be on a competitive bike next year. For ..... sake this the head of Motogp. In any other sport he would have been sacked immediately. But somehow this guy survives, because the show must roll on!

Still cant beleive he said it. In an instant, he confirmed what many of us have known for quite sometime, that GP is a derived show. not a competition.

Those infamous words

"I am calm. Valentino will be riding a competitive bike next year, but I can't tell you what it is. It is still too early to talk about: in 2013 we will see Rossi fight for the win... again."

Mr Squiggle · Aug 20, 2012

povol said:
Still cant beleive he said it. In an instant, he confirmed what many of us have known for quite sometime, that GP is a derived show. not a competition.

Those infamous words

"I am calm. Valentino will be riding a competitive bike next year, but I can't tell you what it is. It is still too early to talk about: in 2013 we will see Rossi fight for the win... again."

Yes it was a week after he also categorically stated that the rookie rule would not be changed to accommodate Marquez riding for Repsol. Uncle Carmello and DORNA have zero credibility.

Goatboy · Aug 20, 2012

Mr Squiggle said:
Wow you really are a cry baby. I was very much being genuine. Good on ya.R

I just don't trust anything you say, you're so inconsistant.

Mr Squiggle · Aug 20, 2012

Goatboy said:
I just don't trust anything you say, you're so inconsistant.

Show me where I have been inconsistent.....or just STFU you little girl.

J4rn0 · Aug 20, 2012

birdman said:
How could Honda have prevented that? By deliberately dumbing down the series I suppose. Every competitive sport heads the same way, to unobtainium as you put it. Juventus and Inter Milan do not go around divising ways of evening out the competition. Player salaries dont go down over time. They buy up players because the biggest budget ensures the best players which then creates unobtainium for the rest. Motogp will always be the same, it depends on a strong governing body to keep it in check. This hate Honda is a convenient diversion. People must be blind. Voting with your feet happens when corruption is involved. The most unprofessional conduct I have seen in the last 10 years was not Honda, it was when Ezpeleta made the comment that Rossi would be on a competitive bike next year. For ..... sake this the head of Motogp. In any other sport he would have been sacked immediately. But somehow this guy survives, because the show must roll on!

Dumb down? The fuel limit and 6 engines rule etc do not have anything to do with performance -- on the contrary, remove these artificious engineering hurdles and the same performance level is more easily reachable by more manufacturers with less expense (and more riding styles could be effective again). Is it so difficult to understand who benefits from these arbitrary technical rules? This is the unobtainium way imposed by Honda -- make a certain performance level more difficult and expensive to reach, so that the most powerful manufacturer has an advantage and others stay there as "also ran" or quit or give up even trying. Then when only 2 competitors and just 12 bikes are left on the grid propose a cheaper "production prototype" of yours to sell to private teams and voila, the MotoHRC series is served. That's the real dumbing down -- but some choose to ignore all this and prefer to imagine conspiracies to make Valentino Rossi win. Funny. I think it must be a side effect of the reality show culture...

birdman · Aug 20, 2012

J4rn0 said:
Dumb down? The fuel limit and 6 engines rule etc do not have anything to do with performance -- on the contrary, remove these artificious engineering hurdles and the same performance level is more easily reachable by more manufacturers with less expense (and more riding styles could be effective again). Is it so difficult to understand who benefits from these arbitrary technical rules? This is the unobtainium way imposed by Honda -- make a certain performance level more difficult and expensive to reach, so that the most powerful manufacturer has an advantage and others stay there as "also ran" or quit or give up even trying. Then when only 2 competitors and just 12 bikes are left on the grid propose a cheaper "production prototype" of yours to sell to private teams and voila, the MotoHRC series is served. That's the real dumbing down -- but some choose to ignore all this and prefer to imagine conspiracies to make Valentino Rossi win. Funny. I think it must be a side effect of the reality show culture...

If Suzuki and Kawasaki were winning in the pre fuel/engine restricted 990 era I might believe you. Unfortunately they werent, in fact if anything they started getting more competitive with 800's. And as you already pointed out Honda did poorly under their own brilliant scheme, while for one year at least Ducati prospered. Kind of strange tactics. More likely Honda got conned into a bad idea by Pedro, Puig and Repsol.

No the new and more worrying unobtainium is the riders with the massive backing of powerful personal sponsors being heralded as the chosen ones, no questions asked. Ask Luthi, Bradl and Espargaro if they think Marquez is better and deserves the special treatment.

Kropotkin · Aug 21, 2012

King Kenny on what is wrong with MotoGP, and how he'd fix it. Contains info which is relevant here. Povol is going to hate it.

http://cyclenews.coverleaf.com/cyclenews/20120821#pg73

Zootalaws · Aug 21, 2012

birdman said:
Ask Luthi, Bradl and Espargaro if they think Marquez is better and deserves the special treatment.

Marquez is better. Ask the team bosses, not his competitors.

first couple of seasons on a uncompetitive KTM, he got two podiums. His first season on a competitive Derbi, 10 wins, the championship and 310 points.

Last year, his rookie season in Moto2, seven wins and second in the championship, despite not starting two races.

This year, five wins out of ten starts, leading the championship by 39 points after halfway.

He is special.

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