Indianapolis

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 15 2007, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>jumk as long as gps exist world superbikes will NEVER be the pinnacle of 2 wheeled motorsport..... NEVER!

Yeah too right, motogp has nothing to prove to the racing fans, they KNOW it is th pinnacle. Unfortunately the big corporations want more for their money, and soon motogp will be dancing to their tune.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 15 2007, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>jumk as long as gps exist world superbikes will NEVER be the pinnacle of 2 wheeled motorsport..... NEVER!

Frogy, I hope you are right, but you gotta admit, WSBK is very exciting and the parity makes for close racing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 15 2007, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. F1, for whatever you agree or disagree, is considered hands down the pinnacle of car racing. Something, MotoGP aspires to become in motorcycles (though at the moment WSBK is fast aproaching). Sideshows, are just that, sideshows.

2. Why, did Rossi complain? All the tracks have issues, and some unforseen forces of nature like heat, oh, should we cancel Qatar because of alittle sand? Please, you are exaggerating and trying to convince yourself.

I guess the difference is what it is you want from motogp. I tune it to watch the best riders in the world riding different kinds of motorbike and racing at the best tracks in the world. To me that is the pinnacle of bike racing, that is Grand prix. To some its a big circus show with celebrities, big money glamor and one race to make the meeting worthwhile, but thats not me. I understand it might be different for you Americans though, you have inferior exposure too and less interest in the small classes. Plus generally your sports are more commercially driven, so these issues may seem less significant to you. I guess i am just a traditionalist!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 15 2007, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Look the 125s and 250s are cool, and I would want to see them, but I agree with Randy Mamola, in that they are not the main event and to an extent draw away from it. The premiere class is a stand alone, it doesn't need the sideshow to make it prestigious. Get over it. Laguna is an excellent venue and a great event.
thats the problem, the 125s and 250s are seen by a lot of people as a "sideshow"
pitty really because some of the best races and racing you will ever see is in the 125s and 250s. but all the while we have american's like the ones who hang out in this forum the others may see the light oneday.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 15 2007, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess the difference is what it is you want from motogp. I tune it to watch the best riders in the world riding different kinds of motorbike and racing at the best tracks in the world. To me that is the pinnacle of bike racing, that is Grand prix. To some its a big circus show with celebrities, big money glamor and one race to make the meeting worthwhile, but thats not me. I understand it might be different for you Americans though, you have inferior exposure too and less interest in the small classes. Plus generally your sports are more commercially driven, so these issues may seem less significant to you. I guess i am just a traditionalist!

No need to try and drag your misconception of Americans into it. Laguna as a track has character and a very unique layout. It features a unique corkscrew and varies elevation changes with flat portions. It certainly has prestige and history as a GP circuit, or did you forget the 80s and 90s. Your only hang up is that they don't bring in the support classes. Well guess what, we use to have two-stroke bikes here along with WSBK. But the fact of the matter is two-strokes are becoming obsolete (even MotoGP is dropping that platform). So you may want to start getting over it. You try and .... on Laguna simply because they don’t bring the sideshow but the Laguna weekend is epic. I do hope they bring the support classes someday, but I’m not gonna go so far as to say something silly if they don’t bring them to equate the event is somehow demoted or a "joke". The premiere class is the show, everything else is filler.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 15 2007, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats the problem, the 125s and 250s are seen by a lot of people as a "sideshow"
pitty really because some of the best races and racing you will ever see is in the 125s and 250s. but all the while we have american's like the ones who hang out in this forum the others may see the light oneday.
Blame it on Dorna, not the Americans. They are the ones that don't have enough respect for the support classes to leave them out. If it were so important as you claim, they would have said, look, the whole thing is the show, take it or leave it. But no, they understood what is really the show, and were willing to part ways for that race.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 15 2007, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1.No need to try and drag your misconception of Americans into it. Laguna as a track has character and a very unique layout. It features a unique corkscrew and varies elevation changes with flat portions. It certainly has prestige and history as a GP circuit, or did you forget the 80s and 90s. Your only hang up is that they don't bring in the support classes. Well guess what, we use to have two-stroke bikes here along with WSBK. But the fact of the matter is two-strokes are becoming obsolete (even MotoGP is dropping that platform). So you may want to start getting over it. You try and .... on Laguna simply because they don’t bring the sideshow but the Laguna weekend is epic. I do hope they bring the support classes someday, but I’m not gonna go so far as to say something silly if they don’t bring them to equate the event is somehow demoted or a "joke". The premiere class is the show, everything else is filler.

2.Blame it on Dorna, not the Americans. They are the ones that don't have enough respect for the support classes to leave them out. If it were so important as you claim, they would have said, look, the whole thing is the show, take it or leave it. But no, they understood what is really the show, and were willing to part ways for that race.

1. I do know that Laguna Seca has history ad a GP circuit, and rightly so since it amongst Americas best imo. However i don't think the circuit as a whole is that thrilling, other than the corkscrew through to rainey curve, i find it quite average. Also, this is not just about two strokes, even if the smaller bikes were 4 strokes i would still be disappointed when they were left out. And like i said before, you american's may enjoy or even consider a meeting of superbikes with motogp "epic", but it is no match for a full world championship meeting of grand prix race bikes, which are not considered filler in most of Europe.

2. Again this is my point about the fact that motogp will tailor itself to the wants of you guys in order to make more money, its unfortunate that this has to happen, and i would say Dorna are equally to blame for it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 15 2007, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i would still be disappointed when they were left out.

And like i said before, you american's may enjoy or even consider a meeting of superbikes with motogp "epic", but it is no match for a full world championship meeting of grand prix race bikes, which are not considered filler in most of Europe.

Again this is my point about the fact that motogp will tailor itself to the wants of you guys in order to make more money, its unfortunate that this has to happen, and i would say Dorna are equally to blame for it.
They don't leave out junior classes; the AMA junior classes replace them.

It is called the "Superbowl of Motorcycle Racing” and I fully agree. Leave the juniors at home in Europe and have a weekend where you see the top national series and the top international series in one place. I think you’re just jealous. We get what you wish you could have. And that is certainly epic.

Oh, Dorna are big boys and girls, they can make their own decisions. But if you want to talk about caving, I would say having three GPs in one country the size of a medium US state, is caving.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 15 2007, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WSBK is very exciting and the parity makes for close racing.
yes no argument there. sbks are very entertaining. just not the "best"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 15 2007, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They don't leave out junior classes; the AMA junior classes replace them.

It is called the "Superbowl of Motorcycle Racing” and I fully agree. Leave the juniors at home in Europe and have a weekend where you see the top national series and the top international series in one place. I think you’re just jealous. We get what you wish you could have. And that is certainly epic.

Oh, Dorna are big boys and girls, they can make their own decisions. But if you want to talk about caving, I would say having three GPs in one country the size of a medium US state, is caving.

As if i could be jealous of laguna when i just got back from Jerez, please!

and the "Junior" grand prix riders arn't too shabby, i would rate a 250cc world champion far about a domestic superbike champ.

As for three races in spain, i would say that is a certain amount of caving, but its positive because there are 9 races. US style caving has resulted in 1 race rather than 3, it sounds pretty negative to me.

we could have all the gp classes here if they would just trim down some of the ama stuff. in 05 they had superbike, supersport & formula xtreme classes. plus the go karts. if they droped the go karts & ss & fxtreme they could run the 125s & 250s. the ama make 2 visits to laguna this season so imo they should drop these classes for the gps.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 15 2007, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2. Again this is my point about the fact that motogp will tailor itself to the wants of you guys in order to make more money, its unfortunate that this has to happen, and i would say Dorna are equally to blame for it.
totaly agree tom.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 15 2007, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think you’re just jealous. We get what you wish you could have. And that is certainly epic.
no way man. when i go to see a gp i expect to see 125s 250s and motogp, if they changed that to a wsb or ama and motogp i would feel cheated, what you suggest is not my wish.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 15 2007, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>we could have all the gp classes here if they would just trim down some of the ama stuff.
Yes we could, but I'm not losing sleep that they are not here.

I can't believe Indy has been chosen for the second US round. The bikes will never run near the banking, so its another flat infield circuit that has no character, history but no character.

I think Laguna is an interesting track, just not good for really close racing. Last year was a joke with the track falling apart, anyone who thinks is wasn't is dreaming. To repave the track and have it fall to pieces is embarrassing for the organisers and dangerous for the riders.

Laguna is one of the rounds I least look forward to because there are no 125/250 races. It's ridiculous that the format changes for one round, don't know why and won't speculate, but it sucks ....

Are the american fans interested in the lower classes? What are the attendance figures for AMA superbike rounds? I've been watching the AMA championship and it's pretty dull compared to WSBK and especially the British Championship. It probably stems from a lack of competitive machinery other than Suzuki. Suzuki are always 1-2, Barber was the only mildly amusing track so far, Daytona and Fontana were mud.

At Phillip island we have all 3 classes premier classes, Australian Superbikes, Supersport, Production 250 and 125. Is this not feasible in the US?

Also there is no way WSBK is close to the Pinnacle of Motorcycle racing. Great racing for sure, but its on production based bikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 15 2007, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i watch ama at indy last week on tv and it does not look fit to host motogp. there racing inches away from a wall then a crappy infield, and if they dont also host the smaller classes as well it will be a fcking .... trade off from the great event at turkey. and i bet the first rider who speaks out about it will bw labled a whinner.
dorna wooed by greenbacks me thinks.

What AMA event did you watch at Indy?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 15 2007, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i watch ama at indy last week on tv and it does not look fit to host motogp. there racing inches away from a wall then a crappy infield, and if they dont also host the smaller classes as well it will be a fcking .... trade off from the great event at turkey. and i bet the first rider who speaks out about it will bw labled a whinner.
dorna wooed by greenbacks me thinks.
Yeah, Oh really? What imaginary AMA round did you watch at Indy? You're smoking crack again or are you talking out of your ... as usual?

I dont mind what happens as long as the ENTIRE GP paddock is included, the 125s and the 250s are as much apart of the race weekend as anyone else. The fact that America have an exception made for them says alot to be honest. The Australian round allows ASBK and Aussie Supersport to run with the 125s and 250s, why cant America? Thats all Ill say..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ May 15 2007, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>to close to laguna. the track is ace man!
give it a chance rog. i know it's a very poor trade off for turkey, a great track indeed, but the turks .... canned it, not dorna.

No closer than Catalunya, Jerez and Valencia!

Oh well, US must a bit like East and west I guess.

For some reason I was under the impression that Miller had some elevation change to it, but it doesn't appear so. Everything I've ever heard about it has been positive, which is a lot more than I can say for Indy.


Jason Pridmore lap around Miller:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=u9mP7JZ4fJA

Track Layout:
http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/images/common/map07.jpg

Heres hoping the powers at be come to their senses and pick Miller over Indy, although I hate to see Turkey go. Why can't they simply add another round in during one of the breaks? Or is that just not realistic?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 16 2007, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, Oh really? What imaginary AMA round did you watch at Indy? You're smoking crack again or are you talking out of your ... as usual?
dunno,i was flicking through the channels and came accross it, could have been a repeat,i assumed it was indy because they were running around part of an oval circuit,looked dangrous, if it wasnt indy,how many banked oval circuits do they race bikes on in the usa ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 16 2007, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>dunno,i was flicking through the channels and came accross it, could have been a repeat,i assumed it was indy because they were running around part of an oval circuit,looked dangrous, if it wasnt indy,how many banked oval circuits do they race bikes on in the usa ?


If it was this season, Daytona and Fontana, both really ..... tracks. A preview of what to expect at Indy, minus the banking. Problem with all these oval infield circuits is they are flat as .... except for the banking.