Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
How much does it cost to get a ride - Aussie perspectives
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Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
He had a ..... start to the season mate.
First CEV race got caught up in someone else's accident and broke his wrist.
Assen he was getting back to form in the Rookies race one he was in third battling for second when I think Toba or Saskia highsided right in front of him, had nowhere to got and collected his bike, Race two he got a third, first podium of the season, Lets see what Sachsenring will brimg
Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Given the sheer number of TV programs and radio announcements for coliseum-filling MX and SX event here in the US - I reckon that's where the money is for young riders as opposed to say flat track racing, which is the ghetto of two wheeled racing. MX and SX have a very wide appeal across a spectrum of blue collar and middle class Americans and the fan base is is huge. Personally - it bores me because it seems more like something that should be run as a sideshow at a carnival as opposed an elite class of racing on prototype machines. But I suspect that the dirt racers who make great money from endorsement are equally indifferent to MotoGp. And while riders in say AMA Superbike can't help but be aware of the glamor and prestige that goes with MotoGp, I think they largely see it as an non-obtainable goal. Having raced the AMA CCS series which was run concurrent with the Camel Pro series weekends, I can tell you that for the most part the participants are largely provincial in the their worldview and don't have ambitions to race outside of the USA. They're quite happy to play in their own backyard. Remember how hard it was to get Spies to go to Europe? A lot of that of course has to do with what many here have already said, ie; the deck is stacked against them in Europe because of all the advantages given there via all the well funded feeder series.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Thanks for update. Sounds like a lot of bad luck. Let's hope he's got that out of the way buddy.He had a ..... start to the season mate.
First CEV race got caught up in someone else's accident and broke his wrist.
Assen he was getting back to form in the Rookies race one he was in third battling for second when I think Toba or Saskia highsided right in front of him, had nowhere to got and collected his bike, Race two he got a third, first podium of the season, Lets see what Sachsenring will brimg
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I don't have exact figures, maybe someone can find, but I remember (don't quote me, I'm forgetting where I leave shoes) a few years back season attendance for both SX & MX over a year was over a million (SX 800K, MX 200K) . I don't think AMA Roadracing has got that over a decade combined.
In SoCal we have 5 SX races, 3 in Anaheim, 1 in San Diego, 1 in LA, the stadiums sell out. MX has 2, well attended.
I've often wondered if the a few of the top guys crossed over to RR how might they fair. Make no mistake, the SX/MX riders are thee most talented & fit two-wheel racers period. The ones who reach the top are from a much greater pool trying to reach the top. The amateur series is a war zone.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Absolutely! Spot on. See my above post. You can go pick up a beater MX for your kid on the change you find underneath the lazy boy. When my kid was 4 my buddy came over on his bday and gave him his son's old KDX50. I offered him money, he said nah, just pass it along when he's done with it. Which I did, to my nephew. I go out to the desert, there are countless kids putting around on MX bikes. To see kids on RR bikes, you have to go to the track. The dad has to be very committed to do it. Where as MX is a family camping trip. To find a RR bike for a 4-5 year old is a mission.
At all the SX races, during intermission there is a peewee KTM race. 3-4 year olds 'racing'. Yes, racing already. A dad sees that, goes home, buys his kid a 50cc. The kids see that, dad, buy me a bike. I've been watching RR with my boys, never have they told me, dad, buy me a CBR, or Ninja. They know the name Nicky Hayden since they could speak, make no mistake, probably was their first word, but they see RR as something only for special athletes. They watch the peewee in a stadium pack with 50K people at Dodgers Stadium, they wanted a bike.
Imagine what that translates into in terms of talent pool in a nation of 350M. So the kids that get to the top of a 20 racer main event are sometimes special. The last guy to qual for a main even was in the top riders for a respective heat race. It's supper competitive.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Your wife doesn't know Michael Jordan?
I think generally speaking about sports, there are plenty of athletes who are household names where if you follow the news on any level, it's impossible to not have some semblance of who they are even if you are not interested in the sport. Now that soccer is getting bigger in the US, I would feel comfortable saying the two biggest household names globally in sports are Lio Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Beckham is still known, but more because of the Hollywood celeb environment than anything else.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Dirt bikes will definitely capture the imagination first. I wanted a dirt bike when I was a kid, one parent said no, that was the end of that. Dirt bikes are the starting point for most everyone otherwise. Endless places to ride that don't cost anything more than fuel, riding gear, and general maintenance.
Maybe it's not a bad thing that they are riding dirt bikes now, but I think it is personally. But that's purely because of my POV that I would rather watch road racing any day of the week over MX/SX. As a participant, MX/SX is far more accessible than any road racing even as an adult due to costs of operating the machines. Sadly it's not going to get any cheaper to race road machines ever.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Haha, my elderly mom has heard of Jordan. I don't know why I thought you meant current players. So yeah wifey has heard of a few of the greats.
Agree about the celeb aspect. I know the Kardashians have made a few NBA players famous...
Joined Aug 2013
902 Posts | 509+
USA
That depends on if you want to keep it at the end of the season, His Dad has a bike sales and repair servicing etc shop.
It's nice to go in there and see the collection of championship winning bikes
However I do believe they have leased the bike this season to help finance the red bull rookies and CEV although RSF are helping a lot with the CEV.
why keep the bike at the end of the season? the bike is only good for one class of racing... my entire racing career I always leased. I watched some of the guys that owned their cars in the IMSA series and it requires full time mechanics just to keep the car going all season.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
I think now with the move to 4 strokes its obviously stacked in favor of Europe or more specifically Spain. So like others have said the cross over seams less a factor of skills than it is $$$$ backing.
Back when it was 500cc two stroke, well there was no way to prepare anyone to ride that evil thing was there? Might as well come from dirt, obviously dirt track, I think Doohan and Schwantz rode MX. In fact the gist of it seams to be the guys who raced anything and everything did better on 500s than Europeans who raced more strictly wheels in line small capacity road racers.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
The one thing road racing has over MX is speed. The need for speed, theres no doubt about it, Im as addicted as anyone.
Banging through the grearbox of an MXer and topping out at what, 50 mph? Its not particularly exciting on flat ground or asphalt. banging through the gears on any sportsbike, oh yeah!
Still I see the dirt bike as the ultimate 2 wheel design. The reason why, when it comes to circuit racing, 2 wheels offers no advantage, 4 wheels is simply faster.
But MX, its based on natural terrain, make that gnarly terrain. Forget 4 wheels, there aint nothing else designed that can go faster or even get around when theres jumps and drop - offs. Bikes can basically go where nothing else can, then race around it.
Talking whether GP are aware of SX, they definitely are, I know Stoner obviously know Villopoto well, also Dani went to SX. I dont think they are just being polite when they say they come away more than impressed. The thing is you really need to stand there in front of a triple jump ramp to appreciate its insane, its basically a huge wall that practically goes vertical and any sane person would never attempt to jump it, its hard enough just to ride over it. Then think these guys have the throttle absolutely pinned with a minute margin for error, both on the triples and the whoops. .... the whoops are probably bigger than Dani Pedrosa is.
So yeah while speed is a big thing I reckon I could manage to get a GP bike around a track, even pin the throttle on the straight, appreciate the speed. But an SX track, .... no would'nt attempt it, which I'm guessing is the same impression the GP riders get when they see it.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Well I think the ultimate comparison would be the UK road racing events like IOM, Ulster, Southern, etc. Frankly, that is the epitome of being bat .... insane, and SX with all of its batshit jumps cannot come close to the idea of riding down public roads in excess of 200MPH with every wall, light post, telephone pole, tree, and so on just sitting there ready to knock the life right out of your body. But either way, both receive major props.
While 4 wheels is always going to be the quickest around the circuit assuming the car is built to do it, it's not always about how quickly you get around the circuit as some series get mistakenly hung up on. It's about creating a product that when consumed, creates a visceral impression that cannot be replicated by anything. Whether it's triple jumps on a dirt bike or Casey Stoner in his prime drifting a bike at 160MPH, it's about seeing something that you cannot yourself do being done.
That riding a GP bike, any of us can do without trouble compared to going around a SX track, is certainly true. But it's not the right comparison as the real comparison would be riding a GP bike on the limit. It's something perhaps a dozen men on the planet can do with the consistency of a metronome. Pinning the throttle on the straight? Would you be willing to pin it at Mugello knowing you are going to be hitting 225MPH before the braking zone? Hell, even getting within 10MPH of Michael Dunlop's IOM record 133MPH lap would be impossible for any one of us.
Mind you I'm not disparaging SX or anything of that nature. I just feel to ride a GP bike, or road racing bike at the limit is just as difficult, if not so more difficult especially since we forget how razor thin the margins actually are even in GP. Look at Loris Baz who suffered that tire blowout at Sepang at 180MPH. The bike went sideways, and he was lucky to not be killed. In GP right now, you have to worry about the construct of the tires as you are trying to push the machine to it's engineering limits. Think of how ...... up that is. SX doesn't see .... like that going on.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Dirt background was definitely more beneficial during the 500cc era because it was the only way to get the throttle control necessary to ride the 500cc machines. But even at that, there was still a hell of a learning curve for anyone who got onto a 500cc machine. Took Rainey a couple of years to learn how to ride the bikes. Actually, King Kenny was the only one to come and start winning on them.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Mx/Sx is the purest form of riding. You dont get a sense of it until you see it live. An mx bike is out of shape 99% of the time on a surface that is constantly changing.
Road racing is more about absolute focus and precision
Road racing is more about absolute focus and precision
Agree you have to fit as .... to ride at a decent level of MX.
Where as on the roads you can be fast as .... and slightly fat. John mcguiness is the perfect example.
Personally for me what I love about GP racing is the precision. Those guys can hit the same piece of Tarmac every lap which I just think is awesome at those speeds
I think on short circuits you need to be little, when somebody like Valentino Rossi is considered big for a GP racer it shows how small these guys are, he's only 10 stone, compare that to a road racer like Michael Dunlop who weighs 14 stone, huge difference.
