Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Here's a wild scenario.
Imagine if the title comes down to Valencia again, only this year it's MM and VR battling. I recall fans last year calling for Iannone to torpedo Lorenzo at Valencia. Imagine if that scenario played out this year, only he torpedoes VR?
Imagine if the title comes down to Valencia again, only this year it's MM and VR battling. I recall fans last year calling for Iannone to torpedo Lorenzo at Valencia. Imagine if that scenario played out this year, only he torpedoes VR?
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Iannone came very close to taking out VR at Argentina this year. His pass was so poor it pushed VR wide and Iannone lost time himself. Rossi called him out on it after the race and said Iannone passed him in a wrong way and he only hoped Iannone would also cause Dovi to lose time when he passed him. Turned out that Iannone would cost Dovi a lot more than time when he caught him. But even VR isn't safe from an Iannone torpedo, nobody is because Iannone isn't even in control of his bike.
A wild scenario:
Has there been any modification to the Ducati that Stoner recommended, but Iannone is having trouble with?
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Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
I prefaced it with "wild scenario", but hey... Marquez claimed Stoner took the RCV in the wrong direction.
I don't know that Stoner is doing much at all with Ducati; all talk of him has died down since the Lorenzo signing.
It looks to me that him being involved was with the motive of showing the potential of the bike and seeing whether the current riders were realising it, which Gigi apparently thought they weren't, hence the involvement in the official test, and probably also to try to entice him to return. They have Lorenzo now, who has a very different riding style, and will be going in his direction, and Gigi has at least worked with him before at Aprilia in the 250s I believe, and is working with a conventional chassis which is where his expertise lies rather than attempting to make a bike with a carbon fibre chassis integrated with the engine into a Yamaha as Ducati were last time they attracted a world championship winning Yamaha rider. I still wonder whether the engine configuration is a problem.
Iannone's torpedoes this year have all seemed to be errors of judgement. Stoner may have contributed to him feeling more pressured, but I doubt he can be blamed for changing the bike to his detriment. The likelihood is that crazy Joe has become crazy Joe again.
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No he didn't, his exact words were 'he identified the problem but he can't develop the bike.' As in he rode the bike once saw the problem was the same as I had been saying but he rides the bike once a year and that isn't enough seat time to develop the bike. Pretty ....... simple unless you're a Rossi fan who wants to discredit Stoner.
Some people and the media just want to cause a problem where there isn't any.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
MM was unhappy with the 2015 RCV that showed up at post-season test and said that Stoner doesn't ride enough to develop anything.
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This discussion has been had many times.
The job of riding the bike to the limit so that issues are found is that of the test rider
The job of identifying the cause of the issue, developing a solution and then implementing the solution is that of the engineers and technicians, not that of the rider involved.
Only one of these tasks could be classed as development ........... which one would that be?
As far as I am aware, Stoner nor any rider has been provided the necessary tools (of late) to machine and manufacture parts that they feel need improvement (although some have bought the equipment for themselves).
EDIT TO ADD:
Of course the issue also with the 2015 bike was the motor which Nakamoto stated was designed around Marquez's feedback, and yet somehow this became Stoner's fault .......... go figure
Yes as in he doesn't ride enough to develop the bike, not hat his feedback wasn't correct. It doesn't take a genius to realise that the guy who tests the bike once a year isn't the lead development rider just that he's been asked to ride for feedback.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Ah we're back to the old tired trope that Rossi fans and Stoner haters love to trot out when all else fails: that Stoner makes bikes worse instead of better.
It's such a bogus argument that has been disproven endlessly....yet it still continues to get trotted out with reckless abandon. It's never had an ounce of truth to it and it needs to die.
It's such a bogus argument that has been disproven endlessly....yet it still continues to get trotted out with reckless abandon. It's never had an ounce of truth to it and it needs to die.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
My opinion aside if Lorenzo fails on the ducati it will add more fuel to this fire. Warranted or not.
Serious question though Dubs.
Will it add more fuel to the fire, or will it instead generate discussion as to whether Lorenzo's riding flaws (if they exist) were somewhat masked by the superiority of the Yamaha?
Asking as to be fair, this year Dovi and Ianonne have shown speed (one prior to being knocked off by others, one prior to knocking off others) and the bike is not that far behind (sure, tight circuits still an issue), but in essence we have 2 riders producing good level results whereas when Rossi went, it was 1 producing excellent results and one good to mid field (all due respects to Nicky).
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Lorenzo is going to fail on the Ducati, and it's not going to have anything to do with Stoner. It's going to have to do with the fact that Lorenzo needs a bike that gives him full confidence in maintaining a high corner speed. The Desmosedici's cornering speed has been vastly improved from what Stoner had to ride years ago, but it's still not a ride-on-rails bike. People assume Lorenzo is going to win races on the Ducati, but this has been said every year since Rossi went there for 2011. Last year everyone thought Ducati was going to finally win a race. It never happened. This year was the same thing, but they aren't winning. They blew it with their window.
I think Ducati went after Stoner as a test rider because they are hoping he will somehow take pity on them and decide to wild card, or even race. I don't see either happening. The only thing he is doing is riding their street bikes. Since the Losail test, he hasn't ridden the Desmo. He's got very little to do with this bike.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
It will most definitely point out Lorenzos flaws if he fails at Ducati. It just won't help Stoner either that he came at the same time this went down. Dovi and AI having "successful" result don't help either. Lets not forget that Ducati has a clear electronics advantage this year help their results.
I think we are on the same path
IMO only, but CS having not ridden the bike since that initial test, not having wildcarded and with Ducati being at loud and long pains to make it clear that there are no plans for him to wildcard indicates to me that he is playing more a brand ambassador type of role (at this stage)
I think it was Michael in the other thread that mentioned that CS seems to have taken a back step since JL signed and it may well be that he achieved the purpose of him being there, that being to show the bike's potential with the view to hopefully signing one of the 4 aliens (both jobs done)
Who really knows, it is all supposition on our parts anyway
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
It's impossible to judge the potential of the Desmo's cornering speed until Lorenzo gets on the bike. Lorenzo has the highest cornering speeds on the M1. If he was never Yamaha rider you may assume the M1 isn't capable of the corner speeds he generates.
I can't watch Iannone or even Dovi to get a sense of what Lorenzo can do. Neither Iannone or Dovi would be able to duplicate Lorenzo's speed on the M1 either.
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