Hayden on Ducati for 2009?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 22 2008, 06:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I obviously agree with you. To take out my nationalistic prejudices, if you put lorenzo on one of the current top works superbikes, I think he would dominate most wsbk races.
Seriously doubt it. I don't suppose you think it helps him in MotoGP that he knows the tracks and the system, since he's been GP racing for a while. He's good, but people make the all to often mistake of underestimating the top WSBK talent at their own game.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 22 2008, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, youth is blissfully. Newsflash, there are a few former MotoGPrs in WSBK, they haven’t exactly been winning titles "without much fuss". Incidentally, we've had some MotoGPrs & WSBKrs in the AMA, oh; they haven't been winning titles "without much fuss" either. Yeah, the WSBK & AMA is ...., right? I'll chalk up your opinion on this matter to the same erroneous perception about Schwantz and all your life opinions--that is to say, wrong.
You don't think hopper would do well in wsbk? I have to say I think he would. This is not to say that no current wsbk or ama rider might not do well in motogp in the future; it has happened before, appears to be happening now with toseland, and will doubtless happen in the future. But in my opinion the best 6 motogp riders, and perhaps the best 8 or 10 really are the top riders. There are also riders who probably never really were top quality( such as west unfortunately) and some who once were but are no longer. I say this as a keen wsbk and troy bayliss fan. It is late at night here, but I can't recall offhand anyone going straight from the top echelon of motogp back to superbikes; perhaps colin edwards will do it next year and we will no longer have to speculate about the relative level of competition.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 22 2008, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You don't think hopper would do well in wsbk?

I can't recall offhand anyone going straight from the top echelon of motogp back to superbikes;
I think Hopkins would do very well. I took issue with Tom saying he would win a "title without a fuss". That to me is underestimating the talent in WSBK.

Biaggi was at the top three in MotoGP, lets not forget he was runner up to the great Rossi (I would consider this the "top echelon" as you put it). Yet he has not won a title "without a fuss". Several have won more races while he has been in that series, not to mention Toesland, who is now in MotoGP.

I'm not suggesting that all GP riders could wipe the floor with superbike riders with little/no experience!! Additionally i am aware that their are issues of adaptability with some riders, and changes in form as they gain experience/age. However the the general pattern is clear to see and there has never been any doubt which is the premier class.

I chose hopper because he is a solid but unspectacular top 5 gp guy, still in the peak of his career and i feel he could do pretty well. I don't expect Checa to have an easy time, but he is already proving himself to be a front runner with pretty much no experience.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 22 2008, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Biaggi was at the top three in MotoGP, lets not forget he was runner up to the great Rossi (I would consider this the "top echelon" as you put it).
It is inarguable he was once in the top echelon, just not at the time he switched to wsbk. He in fact could no longer get a ride in motogp, admittedly probably partly for reasons of personality and politics.

To be totally honest, I think there is overlap, with some riders being on the way up in superbikes and some being on the way down in motogp but again purely in my opinion the overall quality is higher in motogp.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 22 2008, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To be totally honest, I think there is overlap, with some riders being on the way up in superbikes and some being on the way down in motogp but again purely in my opinion the overall quality is higher in motogp.

Agreed

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 22 2008, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not suggesting that all GP riders could wipe the floor with superbike riders

Yeah, I agree, you were not merely "suggesting", you were making a definitive and absurd statement: see your quote

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 22 2008, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yea i think Hopper could win a world superbike title without much fuss.

So you're not "suggesting"..haha; ah, the sound of backpedaling….

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 22 2008, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, I agree, you were not merely "suggesting", you were making a definitive and absurd statement: see your quote



So you're not "suggesting"..haha; ah, the sound of backpedaling….
Hopper's one man and one set of dazzling white teeth, not "all GP riders".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 22 2008, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, I agree, you were not merely "suggesting", you were making a definitive and absurd statement: see your quote



So you're not "suggesting"..haha; ah, the sound of backpedaling….

So when you read "Hopper", you think "all gp riders"?

Hmmm...Hayden and Ducati....Hopkins and WSBK....ah lets see, I'll take Hayden returning to HRC(which by the way I think sucks!) and Hopkins would do well in WSBK IMHO but after learning to ride a powerful bike again... lol ..did I say that?

Honestly, back to the topic at hand, I'm not sure how Nicky would do on the Duc since it seems to only go fast with all of the electronic nannies on. It probably won't matter, if HRC does decide to get it's riders on contract early this year and Hayden is offered another year or two from HRC, we know he will sign, end of story, and Jumkie, myself and many other Hayden fans on here will just have to think of what could have been.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Apr 22 2008, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hopper's one man and one set of dazzling white teeth, not "all GP riders".
Haha, oh now I understand. He would blind the other WSBK riders with his white teeth and cruise to a title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 22 2008, 09:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So when you read "Hopper", you think "all gp riders"?
Thats what you "suggest", and that has been your held opinion over and over again. Don't try to split hairs now, very thin debating ploy when you got nothing, man up. You have made quite a name for yourself with your opinion that WSBK and such superbikers are .....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 22 2008, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'll chalk up your opinion on this matter to the same erroneous perception about Schwantz and all your life opinions--that is to say, wrong.

For one of the older members of the forum, you sure don't act like it.

So what if he doesn't regard Kevin as a demi-god? What right does that give you to belittle his opinions, and more importantly, to proclaim they are wrong?

I don't happen to think AMA is the holy grail of domestic SBK racing, a series that has produced 1 grand prix champion in 18 years, does that mean my corresponding opinions are 'wrong'?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 22 2008, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats what you "suggest", and that has been your held opinion over and over again. Don't try to split hairs now, very thin debating ploy when you got nothing, man up. You have made quite a name for yourself with your opinion that WSBK and such superbikers are .....

I make no secret of the fact that i think GP riders are generally better than superbike riders, but it would be illogical to assume that ALL gp riders could achieve success in superbike racing and i wouldn't claim otherwise.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Apr 22 2008, 11:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For one of the older members of the forum, you sure don't act like it.

So what if he doesn't regard Kevin as a demi-god? What right does that give you to belittle his opinions, and more importantly, to proclaim they are wrong?

I don't happen to think AMA is the holy grail of domestic SBK racing, a series that has produced 1 grand prix champion in 18 years, does that mean my corresponding opinions are 'wrong'?
Hmm, I can think of 3 GP world champs from the past 18 years that raced AMA...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Apr 22 2008, 09:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It probably won't matter, if HRC does decide to get it's riders on contract early this year and Hayden is offered another year or two from HRC, we know he will sign, end of story, and Jumkie, myself and many other Hayden fans on here will just have to think of what could have been.
I could live with that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Apr 22 2008, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmm, I can think of 3 GP world champs from the past 18 years that raced AMA...

Who were AMA champion.

I can name 1 recent champ in the past 7 years who raced BSB.

Am I right in assuming these two of these names are Hayden and KrJr (who never raced AMA, only 250)?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Apr 22 2008, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmm, I can think of 3 GP world champs from the past 18 years that raced AMA...

I don't know if you have been involved in these discussions before, but it is not really fair to rate the AMA superbikes based on an era when there was no comparible series. Superbike racing didnt really get big untill the very end of the 80's, From that point on there has only been one GP champ bred from the superbike class.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Apr 22 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For one of the older members of the forum, you sure don't act like it.

So what if he doesn't regard Kevin as a demi-god? What right does that give you to belittle his opinions, and more importantly, to proclaim they are wrong?

I don't happen to think AMA is the holy grail of domestic SBK racing, a series that has produced 1 grand prix champion in 18 years, does that mean my corresponding opinions are 'wrong'?

Haha. Ok, so now we ca NOT call on people's ........ based on age right? Ok, no problem. I'll make you a deal, don't say stupid ...., and I promise not to call you on it. Look, if you're gonna make bold statements like: Superbikers are .... as a whole (WSBK or AMA), Kevin Schwantz is "overrated", Hopkins would win a "title" (no less) "without a fuss", human advancement has been achieved by "greed", why the big fuss that a Black man was jeered at a sport event, all Spanish riders are bla, bla, bal, etc. etc., then expect some resistance to the contrary, yes; that includes saying you are “wrong”.

So does youth give you a pass to say such things? Anybody else you'd like to defend Phleg?

Ok, last entry for me on this thread.

Back on topic: all is speculation about Hayden, we will know soon enough as the season pans out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 22 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So does youth give you a pass to say such things? Anybody else you'd like to defend Phleg?

No, youth doesn't give you a pass, but you should be able to see people have different opinions to your own. Learn to accept it, and rather than belittle someone based on a differing opinion, why not enter into civilized discussions?