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Hayden on Ducati for 2009?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Apr 21 2008, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hayden said he wants to turn off the TC so why the hell would he want to ride a bike that handles like a sledge in the snow without it??? you really are stupid sometimes.
I'd love to see Hayden try and ride any of the current machines without TC. Hello last place!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Apr 21 2008, 06:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Complex electronics involve complex software. If that software isn't thoroughly tested then you can easily get glitches. I know you're in Oz, so maybe haven't heard too much about the issues (various and very common) with the software on the Peugeot 307 when it first came out in 2002.

Take a look at this guy's final letter to Peugeot and it's list of software glitches:
Crush My 307

I particularly like the March 04 entry where the accelerator pedal stopped responding. Peugeot are still not much better in this department - last year a mate was performing sign off tests on one when he found that disconnecting the wire to the accelerator caused the throttle to fail-dangerous as opposed to fail-safe. The car was an auto and had reached 3rd and 120kmh when he managed to get the wire back into the break-out box.
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At least this was found during testing though.

Finally, do you remember Pedrosa's launch/anti wheelie control software failure last year?

Serious software problems with flyby wire? Look no further:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRk4vfq9AZ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0LBj_8xs_w&NR=1
AFAIK none of the accidents were fatal for the pilot.
Jas Grippen had various problems and at least to crashes at shows. AFAIK they were all related to software/computer problems.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 21 2008, 07:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Serious software problems with flyby wire? Look no further:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRk4vfq9AZ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0LBj_8xs_w&NR=1
AFAIK none of the accidents were fatal for the pilot.
Jas Grippen had various problems and at least to crashes at shows. AFAIK they were all related to software/computer problems.
I think an airbus crash in India was attributed to a fly-by-wire malfunction. I have to say I don't like the whole idea of it , although I think my current car has such a throttle.
 
and how often did KRjr end up in the gravel when they were trying out the then-new electronics of the GSV-R?

ask him about software glitches....
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GPone
http://www.gpone.com/news/News.asp?NNews=1915
are running an article titled "Ducati is offering to JiR Scot team satellite Desmosedici bikes for 2009".

Excerpts:

"....Ducati is reportedly thinking to hire Nicky Hayden for the next season: the American not only has a riding style similar to Stoner's, but is held in high esteem at Borgo Panigale. On the other hand, the Red bikes would also like to have an Italian rider, so they are trying to "lure" Andrea Dovizioso, with whom they already had a contact last year.

"However, Dovi is tied to the JiR Scot team for 2009: in order to free him from his current team anybody would have to pay a high penalty, unless they are HRC (who have an option to hire Dovizioso at the end of 2008).

"Or, one would have to offer something in exchange to the team managed by Montiron and Mularoni. Ducati is trying to do just that: in order to have Dovizioso, the men in red are ready to offer the JiR Scot team satellite Desmosedici's at a discount.

"It is clear that, should this scenario materialize, there woul be a chain reaction. One satellite Honda would be left free, maybe ready for a new team eager to enter MotoGP, like Aspar's.....

"At this point, team Alice would have to look for alternatives, and it seems that after 5 years of partnership with Ducati, the team of Campinoti and D’Antin are now considering Kawasaki..."

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Apr 21 2008, 05:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why all the mistrust of electronics?? ......... All my cars for the last 20 years have had the fuel metered to them electronically/electrically ............ I can remember one of them giving a misbeat once ..... and it was a momentous occasion because of that!! ..... compared to these engines all the mechanically fuel injected and carbeuretored engines I had ran like dogs...

How much trouble has your cars engine given? How much cause for concern over its reliability or consistency?

Electronics are far more reliable! and tuneable.





Wow ..... aren't you the guy who was saying the Duc. is so much better!!!
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and don't give me the 07/08 ........ .... its hardly changed!!


And another point again ....... why all the fuss about "screamer" config. .... isn't Stoner running that? So why will the KAwasaki screamer be better?
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1. i had a vauxhall omega 2.5tdi the 6 cyclinder bmw engine with "drive by wire" it was a ....... ..... and i hated it. every time i put my foot on the throttle it was 50/50 whether it would respond at all. maybe you have just been lucky barry.

2. i think stoner may disagree with you here, just look at the shapes he is making exiting from corners this year.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 21 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. i had a vauxhall omega

Well there's your problem right there Rog.!! .... yes it may have been fly by wire ..... but the Toyotas I had used electrical wire not chicken wire!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 21 2008, 11:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2. i think stoner may disagree with you here, just look at the shapes he is making exiting from corners this year.

The corners he has gone straight ahead at you mean?
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He needs to go any place where he can get a NORMAL sized machine...
Honda hasn't gave him any reason to stick around, they have their "guy".
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vale4607 @ Apr 21 2008, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd love to see Hayden try and ride any of the current machines without TC. Hello last place!

i hear what your saying but i was just considering that hayden isnt a TC lover and i think if he used a very low setting on the ducati it would be a ..... to ride, maybe alot harder than the rest of the machines on the grid.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>(vale4607 @ Apr 21 2008, 08:21 AM)
I'd love to see Hayden try and ride any of the current machines without TC. Hello last place!

only if he's the only one without it. take tc off everybody and he would be up the sharp end for sure.
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he's just old school.
 
I thought I read somewhere that at the last test, he actually ran some laps with the TC off and he was quicker than with it on....but then again maybe not. I will have to look and see if i can find something..
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Apr 20 2008, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is there any chance of us having a discussion without getting into a rider bash fest with you?
Hayden has won a world championship - How many do you have?
You've become worse than the people who were winding you up.
I would like to read peoples thoughts on Jazkat's post without it being turned into the usual crap that you seem to take pleasure in inciting.
Thanks Friz, I am guilty of being part of the problem sometimes. It seems we have a good discussion here despite a few attempts to the contrary.


As to the topic. It’s an interesting article, even though its entirely speculative, it does bring up some good questions and food for thought. As you may be aware, I was one who hoped Hayden moved to Ducati. Apart from owning one, (was my dream since I gazed at the 1988 Ducati Paso and finally got a 748, now followed by the 749), I am much more a fan of Nicky than I am of Ducati as far as MotoGP racing is concerned. Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I do think Nicky has been second fiddle in HRC which has played a part in his results (yes debatable, but lets set this aside for the moment, if possible).

Having said that, I think Marco Melandri has shown us all that the Ducati is a special machine, and only a uniquely talented rider like Stoner can be successful. For most of last year, many pointed to the Ducati for Stoner's success, but today, I think the reasonable person should now point to Stoner and say, he was successful "in spite" of his Ducati. This of course is a testament to his unique talent. But I was (as many here) believed that Marco, a great talent, would give Stoner a run for his money. We have seen that his talent has NOT harmonized with the machine. Should this bring his talent as a racer into question and start calling for his contract/retirement from MotoGP? Well personally, I do NOT think so for Marco, ,similarly, I think it would be equally unfair for Nicky, tthough this has been proposed for Hayden who has also struggled at HRC since they switched to 800s.

It seems to me, as Rog pointed out, going to Ducati (after the experience of Capi & Melandri) would be a very risky proposition. Hayden may not have a choice, we don't really know if in fact HRC intend to resign him. Though I believe he is still one of the top 5 talents in the world, his poor results coupled with the new young talent knocking at the door, may just be enough to move him aside to another brand. I don't think the money is an issue for Hayden. I think his first inclination will be to stay with Honda in some form, but who knows what Honda will offer. If they don't intend to keep him, then I would say why not give Ducati, or Kawasaki, or even Suzuki a try. Hell, if they had room, I'd would love to see him go to Yamaha. (Perhaps this way, if he were successful at Yamaha, this might send a message to Honda, that yes, rider talent does matter, as it did with Rossi's switch, but nodody needs to tell me, this is a stretch).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vale4607 @ Apr 20 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'd love to see Hayden try and ride any of the current machines without TC. Hello last place!

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Do you even watch the sport, or are you just here to pose.

Hayden rides the 800s best with TC off...............all the way off. The three podium scoring weekends he had in 2007, were with TC adjusted to nearly off. If he hadn't gotten so aggressive with it, and started smoking his tires, he probably could have scored a few more podiums (Estoril 07 was a gimme if he could have kept the rubber in tact).

The reason he rides like complete ... at the beginning of races is because he runs a harder compounds with TC off. When you don't have electro-nanny to save you, you tend to ride a bit conservatively on cold rubber.

When the tires heat he turns quick ones.

He caught Lorenzo and Rossi at Jerez like they were standing still. But he rides with TC off, so a minor mistake nearly ruined his weekend. It finally caught up with him at a slick Estoril.

Since he's so good with TC off, it begs the question: Why go to the team that can't run without it?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 21 2008, 08:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>GPone
http://www.gpone.com/news/News.asp?NNews=1915
are running an article titled "Ducati is offering to JiR Scot team satellite Desmosedici bikes for 2009".

Excerpts:

"....Ducati is reportedly thinking to hire Nicky Hayden for the next season: the American not only has a riding style similar to Stoner's, but is held in high esteem at Borgo Panigale. On the other hand, the Red bikes would also like to have an Italian rider, so they are trying to "lure" Andrea Dovizioso, with whom they already had a contact last year.

"However, Dovi is tied to the JiR Scot team for 2009: in order to free him from his current team anybody would have to pay a high penalty, unless they are HRC (who have an option to hire Dovizioso at the end of 2008).

"Or, one would have to offer something in exchange to the team managed by Montiron and Mularoni. Ducati is trying to do just that: in order to have Dovizioso, the men in red are ready to offer the JiR Scot team satellite Desmosedici's at a discount.

"It is clear that, should this scenario materialize, there woul be a chain reaction. One satellite Honda would be left free, maybe ready for a new team eager to enter MotoGP, like Aspar's.....

"At this point, team Alice would have to look for alternatives, and it seems that after 5 years of partnership with Ducati, the team of Campinoti and D’Antin are now considering Kawasaki..."

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damn!!! were not even to the 4th race of the year yet & silly season is in full swing!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 22 2008, 02:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>damn!!! were not even to the 4th race of the year yet & silly season is in full swing!

just goes to show how "good" the racing has been...if they were close/exciting on the edge of the seat types races, then we would probably have no time for this sort of speculation. but having nothing to say about the racing, we have to turn our attentions to guessing who goes where!
this kind of stuff used to be the reserve of the off-season, not 3 races into what should be one of the best seasons, if you look at the talent lining up on the grid every race....
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sort it Dorna!
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I am far from being a fan of dorna, but what is wrong with 3 different riders (and 3 different makes) winning the first 3 races? Maybe in the next race they will all have their act together at the same time, and we will really see something.

I have agreed previously with everyone about getting rid of the obtrusive rider aids, but if somebody operating under the same rules builds a better bike or is a better rider, as with rossi and doohan in relatively recent memory, I don't necessarily have a problem with this; I think artificial equalisation as with yellow flags in nascar is worse. Close racing is good, but not at all costs; it could probably be achieved by picking 18 people with bike licences at random from the crowd and putting them on honda 250 road bikes.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 22 2008, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am far from being a fan of dorna, but what is wrong with 3 different riders (and 3 different makes) winning the first 3 races? Maybe in the next race they will all have their act together at the same time, and we will really see something.

I have agreed previously with everyone about getting rid of the obtrusive rider aids, but if somebody operating under the same rules builds a better bike or is a better rider, as with rossi and doohan in relatively recent memory, I don't necessarily have a problem with this; I think artificial equalisation as with yellow flags in nascar is worse. Close racing is good, but not at all costs; it could probably be achieved by picking 18 people with bike licences at random from the crowd and putting them on honda 250 road bikes.

The trouble is that we have ben spoilt recently with the racing in motogp. Now that the racing has clemed down again we are left with a divide between the people who are thrilled by the spectacle of the premier class and those who are just looking for the closest race possible. They are not necessarily the same thing, and people need to remember that, and watch superbike if they are not satisfied.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 22 2008, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The trouble is that we have ben spoilt recently with the racing in motogp. Now that the racing has clemed down again we are left with a divide between the people who are thrilled by the spectacle of the premier class and those who are just looking for the closest race possible. They are not necessarily the same thing, and people need to remember that, and watch superbike if they are not satisfied.
I obviously agree with you. To take out my nationalistic prejudices, if you put lorenzo on one of the current top works superbikes, I think he would dominate most wsbk races.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 22 2008, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I obviously agree with you. To take out my nationalistic prejudices, if you put lorenzo on one of the current top works superbikes, I think he would dominate most wsbk races.

Yea i think Hopper could win a world superbike title without much fuss.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 22 2008, 06:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yea i think Hopper could win a world superbike title without much fuss.
Ah, youth is blissfully. Newsflash, there are a few former MotoGPrs in WSBK, they haven’t exactly been winning titles "without much fuss". Incidentally, we've had some MotoGPrs & WSBKrs in the AMA, oh; they haven't been winning titles "without much fuss" either. Yeah, the WSBK & AMA is ...., right?
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I'll chalk up your opinion on this matter to the same erroneous perception about Schwantz and all your life opinions--that is to say, wrong.
 

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