Gracious in defeat - Rossi

paparazzo said:

So that also makes Iannone a mental case since he also 'lost his mind' at the Sepang news press?

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David Emmett said it, not me pal.

If Iannone or anyone else had voiced suspicions straight after the PI race and before any possibility of coaching by VR rather than 4 days later it might have had more verisimilitude, but still would have been unprovable speculation. Once again MM won the race whilst pulling no chancy moves, and no more can be required of him; what you or even Valentino might have liked him to do is rather irrelevant, since he doesn't work for either of you.

paparazzo said:

You would have loved to see Rossi get dumped. Keep delusional yourself Gramps. Yes, of course Rossi premeditated the whole thing since he knows exactly how it would go down with contact. What did he have to lose anyway if he fell instead of Marquez. Maybe Josh Brookes was right, Rossi was a gentleman to long and should have grassed him eariler...



So that also makes Iannone a mental case since he also 'lost his mind' at the Sepang news press?

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You didnt answer the question, what did he have to gain by slowing Marquez down.

michaelm said:

David Emmett said it, not me pal.

If Iannone or anyone else had voiced suspicions straight after the PI race and before any possibility of coaching by VR rather than 4 days later it might have had more verisimilitude, but still would have been unprovable speculation. Once again MM won the race whilst pulling no chancy moves, and no more can be required of him; what you or even Valentino might have liked him to do is rather irrelevant, since he doesn't work for either of you.

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Yes, but you quoted him, means you agree with it.

By 'coached' means you are insulting the intelligence of Iannone. Why not go back to see the conference, it was only clear what was happening days after when VR watch the replay. Iannone was very specific, "He was always so slow out of 5 and I pass him with easy power every time, yes Marc play with us." This is how I remember it. Why not just accept that since one rider in the battle confirmed Valentino suspicion that perhaps, perhaps, there is some truth to it?

povol said:

You didnt answer the question, what did he have to gain by slowing Marquez down.

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Why else but to slow his momentum and give himself some space from a raving lunatic on the track bent to induce him to crash? I thought to expert like you watching from 1970 this is obvious? Yes, at that part of the race he had 4/5 tenths in the bag, maybe in the later stages perhaps not. But your accusation of "premeditated" is ........ (and you know this) since Valentino had everything to lose if he was the one that drop it.

paparazzo said:

..



So that also makes Iannone a mental case since he also 'lost his mind' at the Sepang news press?

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No, it makes him a mindless sheep like the rest of you who are taking your cues from a guy who was desperate to create a narrative to cover up his inability to beat his team mate. Jorge beat him in 4 of the last five races, Marquez beat him in 3 of the last 5 and probably would have been 4of 5 if not for Rossi losing his mind, and Pedrosa beat him 3 of the last 5. Thats all you need to know, thats what cost Rossi the title.

paparazzo said:

Yes, but you quoted him, means you agree with it.





Why else but to slow his momentum and give himself some space from a raving lunatic on the track bent to induce him to crash? I thought to expert like you watching from 1970 this is obvious? Yes, at that part of the race he had 4/5 tenths in the bag, maybe in the later stages perhaps not. But your accusation of "premeditated" is ........ (and you know this) since Valentino had everything to lose if he was the one that drop it.

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What good was slowing his momentum when he was slowing himself in the process. Seriously, with both of them in the marbles, how much separation could he have possibly gotten had Marquez not gone down. Plus, you need to look up the definition of premeditated

think out or plan (an action, especially a crime) beforehand.
"premeditated murder"
synonyms: planned, intentional, deliberate,

Do you see anywhere where there is a mention of time elapsed involved to think out an intentional, deliberate act. NO, you dont, so like i said, if he decided to dump Marquez the corner before he did it, that is premeditated

povol said:

No, it makes him a mindless sheep like the rest of you who are taking your cues from a guy who was desperate to create a narrative to cover up his inability to beat his team mate. Jorge beat him in 4 of the last five races, Marquez beat him in 3 of the last 5 and probably would have been 4of 5 if not for Rossi losing his mind, and Pedrosa beat him 3 of the last 5. Thats all you need to know, thats what cost Rossi the title.

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A little harsh, methinks. Yes by the end if the season VR was struggling to hang with JL, but remember that throughout the whole season VR never had fewer points than JL until the decider at Valencia. I agree that Rossi's meltdown after PI was odd to say the least, but you cannot deny he'd been competitve in the 2015 field.

If he and Ianonne genuinely felt MM was playing with them then I guess he felt that his lead over JL was being whittled down by more than just his struggles to meet his team-mate at an equal level. What he seemed to fail to take into account was : what would a young Rossi's reaction to a similar claim have been?

povol said:

No, it makes him a mindless sheep like the rest of you who are taking your cues from a guy who was desperate to create a narrative to cover up his inability to beat his team mate. Jorge beat him in 4 of the last five races, Marquez beat him in 3 of the last 5 and probably would have been 4of 5 if not for Rossi losing his mind, and Pedrosa beat him 3 of the last 5. Thats all you need to know, thats what cost Rossi the title.

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It is comical the way you speak as if you are more informed than riders on the track. I think the the name for you would be 'mindless armchair critic'. Everybody is under the mind control of Rossi, riders, fans, myself, officicals, except you of course. You are correct about about the last 2 races and the one before PI but Jorge was 100% beatable by Rossi @ PI without the MM sandbagging.

povol said:

What good was slowing his momentum when he was slowing himself in the process. Seriously, with both of them in the marbles, how much separation could he have possibly gotten had Marquez not gone down. Plus, you need to look up the definition of premeditated

think out or plan (an action, especially a crime) beforehand.
"premeditated murder"
synonyms: planned, intentional, deliberate,

Do you see anywhere where there is a mention of time elapsed involved to think out an intentional, deliberate act. NO, you dont, so like i said, if he decided to dump Marquez the corner before he did it, that is premeditated

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Of course, Valentino needed not to pay attention to lunatic rider trying to crash him. The great Rossi has 2 brains, one to focus on riding to maximum and keeping a rider bent on forcing a crash and at same time, plan to make him crash.

Honestly, there was nothing premeditated, the final move or last straw was that stupid pass attempt by Marc around the outside and sweeping across Valentino's front wheel missing him by inches, a move that he had zero chance of completing (he went wide). This was the last straw for Rossi and he reacted to that clear attempt to cause a crash.

yamaka46 said:

A little harsh, methinks. Yes by the end if the season VR was struggling to hang with JL, but remember that throughout the whole season VR never had fewer points than JL until the decider at Valencia. I agree that Rossi's meltdown after PI was odd to say the least, but you cannot deny he'd been competitve in the 2015 field.

If he and Ianonne genuinely felt MM was playing with them then I guess he felt that his lead over JL was being whittled down by more than just his struggles to meet his team-mate at an equal level. What he seemed to fail to take into account was : what would a young Rossi's reaction to a similar claim have been?

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I said 3 years ago that Rossi was still good enough to steal a championship if everything fell into place. That meant him being on the best bike, check, his teammate falters, check, Honda flat out misses the mark, check, plus Dani missed races early, All of those things happened and he damn near stole a title. He will not just go out and beat those riders on a regular enough basis and win a title on HIS performance, like Marquez in 2014 and Lorenzo in 2015. Rossi's struggle was really the entire second half of the season. Lorenzo finished ahead of him in 6 of 9 races,had it not been for some fortuitous weather that figure would have almost certainly been 9 of 9 as Lorenzo was considerably faster than Rossi in the dry, sometimes as much as 6-7 10ths.

paparazzo said:

It is comical the way you speak as if you are more informed than riders on the track. I think the the name for you would be 'mindless armchair critic'. Everybody is under the mind control of Rossi, riders, fans, myself, officicals, except you of course. You are correct about about the last 2 races and the one before PI but Jorge was 100% beatable by Rossi @ PI without the MM sandbagging.



Of course, Valentino needed not to pay attention to lunatic rider trying to crash him. The great Rossi has 2 brains, one to focus on riding to maximum and keeping a rider bent on forcing a crash and at same time, plan to make him crash.

Honestly, there was nothing premeditated, the final move or last straw was that stupid pass attempt by Marc around the outside and sweeping across Valentino's front wheel missing him by inches, a move that he had zero chance of completing (he went wide). This was the last straw for Rossi and he reacted to that clear attempt to cause a crash.

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If all Rossi was looking for was a little separation, wouldnt he have been smart to simply hold his line and get separation since Marquez had zero chance of completing the pass and had run wide. So now racing Rossi hard is a clear attempt at causing him to crash, nevermind that they never touched. What you are saying is that Rossi has lost his balls for a battle, the very thing you supposedly fell in love with him for.

This is starting to seem a little excessive. I think it's time that MotoGP fans as a whole see the desperate people who are still in shock of Rossi losing the title as what they are becoming....trolls.

I'm sorry to say it, but what's done is done. Rossi lost. You don't think he deserved to lose? Whatever, he lost. You think the other guys had bad intentions? Whatever, Rossi lost. You think Marquez and Lorenzo conspired together? To quote the Dude....that's just, like, your opinion, man. You think that I or people who have my opinion are uninformed or we haven't seen the Sepang incident from the correct camera angle or we haven't read the right blog explaining the incident? Whatever. IT'S OVER. It happened. Rossi could have won a 10th championship, but he didn't. He didn't win it. He didn't do it. He lost it. It happened. All the appeals are done. There is nothing that can be done. Perhaps Rossi fans should do like the title of this thread said and try to be gracious in defeat.

Everybody else can stop taking the bait. Literally the only thing a Rossi fan can do now is try to throw globs of mud and hope that their "debate" opponents throw bigger globs of mud so that they can be the victims.

(I realize this comment will do nothing and the arguments will continue, but I had to say something.)

paparazzo said:

It is comical the way you speak as if you are more informed than riders on the track. I think the the name for you would be 'mindless armchair critic'.

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I'm curious to know what kind of a name you think would be suitable for yourself.

Serious question. I'm not even looking for an argument. If you answer it, I won't even respond.....unless baited with an observation about me. But seriously, how would you describe yourself?

Fair Son SS

... For Sins

Sins So Far

Far Sin SOS

(Those are all anagrams for "Rossi Fans".)

kurre said:

I'm curious to know what kind of a name you think would be suitable for yourself.

Serious question. I'm not even looking for an argument. If you answer it, I won't even respond.....unless baited with an observation about me. But seriously, how would you describe yourself?

Fair Son SS

... For Sins

Sins So Far

Far Sin SOS

(Those are all anagrams for "Rossi Fans".)

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Do you think we'll we have a white Christmas or green Christmas this year?

paparazzo said:

Yes, but you quoted him, means you agree with it.

By 'coached' means you are insulting the intelligence of Iannone. Why not go back to see the conference, it was only clear what was happening days after when VR watch the replay. Iannone was very specific, "He was always so slow out of 5 and I pass him with easy power every time, yes Marc play with us." This is how I remember it. Why not just accept that since one rider in the battle confirmed Valentino suspicion that perhaps, perhaps, there is some truth to it?

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Sorry to those not involved in the debate, I agree this is tedious.

Rossi and those among his following such as you who are devoted to him on a level approaching the religious are the ones making the accusations/raising the conspiracy theories, the burden of proof is on them and you, I and others are merely disagreeing.

Why are we to believe Iannone, but not Marquez, and why is it legitimate to have vast conspiracy theories about MM but not to suggest Iannone might have his own biases? As Jumkie and Povol say, if Iannone or any other rider (or any observer at all for that matter) had made any comment concerning shenanigans in regard to the PI race at the time then there might be more credibility. It is certainly well reported that Rossi had discussions about the race with Iannone, and specifically called off the attack mob of which you are a member in regard to him. If he hadn't, it is more than likely he would have continued to be the subject of vilification along with MM.

One more time, MM is employed by HRC, not you or Valentino, and he fulfilled all requirements at PI, he won the race, and he put no contenders for the championship at risk by questionable moves. The very idea that MM and Dani, employed by Yamaha's bitter rivals in HRC, were somehow obliged to help Rossi beat his own team-mate is ludicrous in the extreme. Mick Doohan, in the same article you choose to quote selectively, said the whole thing about non-contenders not racing was "........". To again quote David Emmett, that VR needed to "subcontract" beating Lorenzo to other riders was the whole problem.

paparazzo said:

It is comical the way you speak as if you are more informed than riders on the track. I think the the name for you would be 'mindless armchair critic'. Everybody is under the mind control of Rossi, riders, fans, myself, officicals, except you of course. You are correct about about the last 2 races and the one before PI but Jorge was 100% beatable by Rossi @ PI without the MM sandbagging.



Of course, Valentino needed not to pay attention to lunatic rider trying to crash him. The great Rossi has 2 brains, one to focus on riding to maximum and keeping a rider bent on forcing a crash and at same time, plan to make him crash.

Honestly, there was nothing premeditated, the final move or last straw was that stupid pass attempt by Marc around the outside and sweeping across Valentino's front wheel missing him by inches, a move that he had zero chance of completing (he went wide). This was the last straw for Rossi and he reacted to that clear attempt to cause a crash.

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Again, you confuse opinion and fact, and can't even keep your opinions consistent.

VR couldn't beat Iannone, but it is certain he could beat Lorenzo at PI? They adopt different race strategies, if Rossi can't or won't stay with Jorge early in races and has to come through the field, then possibly getting held up is a consequence he has to bear. You don't know how hard Jorge would or could have tried against VR as a direct opponent late race as opposed to MM, or Iannone whom Jorge has said he thought was the rider who was challenging him, and whom he thought had much more to gain and much less to lose than he himself did.

What evidence of any sort is there that Valentino could have challenged Jorge at Sepang? He was faster by .011 of a second in the last lap of qualifying, the only time he was faster over the whole week-end. In the race Jorge caught and passed him. You also seem confused as to whether MM was faster than VR. If he was as has been your most frequent claim then VR's likely finishing position without him taking out MM was 4th and his lead over Jorge cut by 3 more points.

Your sometime contention that MM had half a second on the field because of his warm-up times is based on rather flimsy evidence, basically 1 outlier lap, the capacity for which is pretty much MM's signature. That 1 lap in warm-up which was hours before and without certainty as to fuel load or even degree of effort by the respective riders was 0.319 seconds faster than Jorge's fastest as it happens, and he had a second lap that was 0.094 seconds faster. Otherwise in comparison with MM Jorge had 1 of the 3 fastest laps, 3 of the 6 fastest laps, and 5 of the 8 fastest warm-up laps.

yamaka46 said:

A little harsh, methinks. Yes by the end if the season VR was struggling to hang with JL, but remember that throughout the whole season VR never had fewer points than JL until the decider at Valencia. I agree that Rossi's meltdown after PI was odd to say the least, but you cannot deny he'd been competitve in the 2015 field.

If he and Ianonne genuinely felt MM was playing with them then I guess he felt that his lead over JL was being whittled down by more than just his struggles to meet his team-mate at an equal level. What he seemed to fail to take into account was : what would a young Rossi's reaction to a similar claim have been?

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No doubt a few things went VR's way before the last races of the season but the conditions were the same for everyone, and if he had won it would have been very meritorious and not "lucky", particularly at age 36. He is not a weather god as far as I am aware, and if Jorge wasn't competitive with him in an unusual number of wet races then that was entirely Jorge's problem. He was also straight out faster in the dry than all the other riders on occasion when conditions suited his preferred tyre, notably at Argentina.

paparazzo said:

Do you think we'll we have a white Christmas or green Christmas this year?

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I'm not sure what color the landscape will be on Magical Jewish Zombie Day.

kurre said:

I'm not sure what color the landscape will be on Magical Pagan Zombie Day.

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FIFY

Well now, the trees and the timing are Pagan, but the magical zombie was definitely Jewish.

Perhaps we can call it:

Pagan day of materialistic consumerism in celebration of the Magical Jewish Zombie.

The Solstice is upon us lads.

michaelm said:

Again, you confuse opinion and fact, and can't even keep your opinions consistent.

VR couldn't beat Iannone, but it is certain he could beat Lorenzo at PI? They adopt different race strategies, if Rossi can't or won't stay with Jorge early in races and has to come through the field, then possibly getting held up is a consequence he has to bear. .

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Bravo sir. I am so tired of boppers going on and on about how they just cant stand Lorenzo, Stoner,Pedrosa's riding style, strategy whatever you want to call it, of clearing off from the start to avoid racing. Well, that style once again has proven to be the style that consistently wins championships. I think the reason the boppers hate it is because Rossi cant do it. In his early years against the competition he faced, he could "play with them" and make them look silly. Now the shoe is on the other foot and he is the one being played with and dont like it one bit.