Four races, 3 1/2 different men win...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 16 2008, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you sure? Exactly which part do you think is untrue and can you support it with any evidence or is it one of your many assumptions?

5 seconds on the hot seat and your ... is already burned up.

The burden of proof is on you this time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 16 2008, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OMG I thought it was just Dorna that were fixing races but HRC are doing it too!!!!!!!!

Makes you think that Puig probably told Pedrosa to skittle Nicky at Estoril 2006!!!!!!!!!!

Why does everyone always try to make my posts about Nicky. This thread has nothing to do with him (until recently )

I'm suggesting Stoner may be on the wrong end of some under-the-table technical agreements.

Nicky has benefited as a result of the same agreements.

I'm a huge Nicky fan, but authenticity of the contest (or at least transparency of the rules) is very important to me.

I'm not trying to sell my ideas like the journos (that would make my ideas cheap kitsch), so excuse me if they aren't cleverly packaged for your consumption.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 16 2008, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> 5 seconds on the hot seat and your ... is already burned up.

The burden of proof is on you this time.

The first three points on my list were sourced from Eurosport's practice/qualifying coverage at Qatar, the last i think was reported on Autosport's website.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 16 2008, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You don't need to tell me, its one of the reasons i think things through carefully before forming an opinion.




Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 16 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm suggesting Stoner may be on the wrong end of some under-the-table technical agreements.

Nicky has benefited as a result of the same agreements.
Repeat - give us some facts that uphold this "info".

BTW - Interesting to see the word "may" has crept in to your theory....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 16 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why does everyone always try to make my posts about Nicky. This thread has nothing to do with him (until recently )

I'm suggesting Stoner may be on the wrong end of some under-the-table technical agreements.

Nicky has benefited as a result of the same agreements.

I'm a huge Nicky fan, but authenticity of the contest (or at least transparency of the rules) is very important to me.

I'm not trying to sell my ideas like the journos (that would make my ideas cheap kitsch), so excuse me if they aren't cleverly packaged for your consumption.


No I was using the Estoril incident as an example of "conspiracy". I didnt take it back to Nicky, you did, youre just floundering about blaming everyone else for the fact that your obsessed with conspiracy theories. No one told Pedrochio to hit Nicky, he just rode like a ..... no one told Stoner to ride well last season, then struggle this year, things change.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 16 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Shoehorning: nThe process of force-fitting current events into one's personal or political agenda/theories. In such instances events are typically shoehorned to fit vague statements or vice -versa. This can seem bold, but can often be an extremely safe procedure since they can't be proven wrong owing to the ease to which one can make confirmation of a claim after the fact - especially if you give them wide latitude in making the 'shoe' fit.

Lex has no way of sustantiating his claims, as they are by nature unprovable- but such claims however peposterous they may seem can't be disproved either. Their main purpose is to support/call attention to his original thread/agenda.

This is nothing more than confirmation bias on Lexicons part, - selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and look for what confirms ones beliefs, and to ignore or undervalue the relevance of that which contradicts ones beliefs.

One of the most peruasive things on any forum is concensus; and for better or worse in this instance Lex refuses to concede that there may be a flaw in any of his reasoning despite the fact that the tide of opinion is against him.

Jumkie, I'm afraid it requires a colourful and over fertile imagination to say the least to 'read between the lines' and concur with Lex's thread. The concensus view is against him here. If that means following the flock then so be it, although I commend Lexicon for being a lamb to the slaughter in posting such contraversial improbable views.

Now who's accusing people of masterminding things that can't be proved/disproved. Apparently I'm conspiring with myself. My motive? (you didn't mention one) but obviously you think I want Ezy transported to Owensboro and then beheaded at the Hayden estate (now lookup: hyperbole).

Lemme tell you, throwing this idea into the peanut gallery has been one of the safest things I've ever done. I was pretty sure it would be well received and it has been. Overall this has is another safe and smashing success--of course it is, I rigged it so I couldn't lose.

I don't think my reasoning is flawless. I know my mind has captured only the tidbits that seem interesting to me--that's a given in the realm of anyone who's used to talking ideas. I'm just sitting here waiting patiently for decent counterpoints to arrive.

Do you think it turns me on to believe that Ezy is messing with things behind the scenes? I can't stand the guy, he shouldn't even be in charge of concessions. The unnecessary change to the 800s has been polarizing enough, I don't need to fabricate more reasons to hate him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 16 2008, 11:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm just sitting here waiting patiently for decent counterpoints to arrive.
You've had 'em - answer them rather than ignoring them.

You might be right, but I can't see any evidence for it. I have, however, provided evidence that points in the opposite direction. You have ignored that evidence so far.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 16 2008, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm suggesting Stoner may be on the wrong end of some under-the-table technical agreements.

Nicky has benefited as a result of the same agreements.
quatar proved that why are you making excuses for stoners inevitable championship failure already ? he has enough of his own fans doing that for him

and you rubbish nickys championship by saying he benefited by some under the table agreement to decide who wins. i must admit, you have confused me lex.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 16 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Pete
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>(Tom @ May 16 2008, 11:14 PM)
You don't need to tell me, its one of the reasons i think things through carefully before forming an opinion. smile.gif
i had a good long laugh at that myself pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 17 2008, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>quatar proved that why are you making excuses for stoners inevitable championship failure already ? he has enough of his own fans doing that for him
Back using that crystal ball again? Or are you now reading the tea leaves after your cuppa in the evening?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ May 17 2008, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Back using that crystal ball again? Or are you now reading the tea leaves after your cuppa in the evening?
no crystal ball mate, just this big square box in my front room that tells all and this box tells me stoner is 25 points (1 race) behind the leader and so far is showing nothing thats likely to change that fact in the near future.

i think they call these magic information box's tv's. you shoud get one mate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ May 16 2008, 02:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Repeat - give us some facts that uphold this "info".

BTW - Interesting to see the word "may" has crept in to your theory....

I said may because I'm being "koi" (lookup: homonym)

This entire thread has been about facts that I believe prove the situation.

1. Stoner ran the 07's at Qatar and obliterated the field (that fact was contributed by a detractor lol) but he hasn't run them since.
2. Stoner was 10+ seconds slower at China in decent racing conditions despite having gained 10kph in a straightline.
3. Stoner has complained about lack of responsiveness from the front tire, suggesting something substantial has been changed.
4. Suddenly, Ducati and Suzuki both cite poor chassis dynamics as reasons they can't get the new bridgestones to work. The Yamaha seems to make decent use of them, besides Qatar when Rossi tried to run his old Michelin setup.
5. The manufacturers make blanket tire recommendations to everyone in the entire field.
6. Lorenzo and Rossi both ran M/M at Jerez and finished next to one another.
7. Rossi was present at a technical meeting. He can beg for B-stones from afar like every other rider. Why did he have to be there? Like boosting riders from key markets--they don't even hide his participation anymore.

Then there are the weird perhaps coincidental occurrences (koi):
1. Eurosport announcers get a new stat column from Dorna, apparently they are particularly interested in the number of g's at the corner entry of the major straights at China (a little over 2g's).
2. At Jerez all B-stone runners run M/M, all Michelin runners run M/M except Pedrosa who runs M/H and wins a huge race in his home market.
3. Ducati, who have nailed nearly every setup since the beginning of the 07 season, seem to think that an M/M 2008 setup will work best for Casey. Casey once again whinges that the team suddenly doesn't listen to him.
4. Marco is blindingly fast out of nowhere at China. I'm almost certain he was running 07s after Ducati requested to run them for Stoner but got them for Melandri instead. Hmmmm........bottom of every practice sheet but 5th in the race. Probably legit
5. Long term collusion is implied in Dorna's mission statement.

I could go on for days.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 16 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>quatar proved that why are you making excuses for stoners inevitable championship failure already ? he has enough of his own fans doing that for him

and you rubbish nickys championship by saying he benefited by some under the table agreement to decide who wins. i must admit, you have confused me lex.

I'm suggesting this new collusion was hammered out at the end of 2007. Way before the end of 2006.

Nicky rode the spare parts bin into the champions circle. There were no rules governing that disaster of a machine.

[quote name='mylexicon' date='May 17 2008, 12:28 AM' post='126719']

I'm suggesting this new collusion was hammered out at the end of 2007. Way before the end of 2006.

Probably the most ....... stupid quote in history.

Please get into soccer or double dutch before the next race, this ..... is laughble.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 16 2008, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Probably the most ....... stupid quote in history.

Please get into soccer or double dutch before the next race, this ..... is laughble.

Pete

Sorry I forgot to put a smiley on it with a little bow that says "I'm being sarcastic"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ May 17 2008, 09:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>no crystal ball mate, just this big square box in my front room that tells all and this box tells me stoner is 25 points (1 race) behind the leader and so far is showing nothing thats likely to change that fact in the near future.

i think they call these magic information box's tv's. you shoud get one mate
Hmmm...seems to be telling you different things than it's telling me. Can the box be lying? It's telling me Stoner will win tomorrow. But then again these boxes lie to me quite a lot. Does tv stand for truth vision in the UK? Over here it stand for totally vacant!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ May 17 2008, 12:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmmm...seems to be telling you different things than it's telling me. Can the box be lying? It's telling me Stoner will win tomorrow. But then again these boxes lie to me quite a lot. Does tv stand for truth vision in the UK? Over here it stand for totally vacant!
Ah, that'll be the Channel Ten coverage - never on time and so full of ..... adverts that I took the advice of my local possum (which pulled the aerial half off the roof one night in April) and download the bloody lot - MotoGP, 250, 125, WSBK, WSS, BSB. Have seen some bloody great racing since I made that decision. Plus, no reason to watch the rest of the ..... on TV.

Now I'm back in the UK (temporarily), anyone got a spare possum handy to wreck the aerial on my rented house? Alternatively I could just sell the TV

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 17 2008, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry I forgot to put a smiley on it with a little bow that says "I'm being sarcastic"


Oh sorry, anyone with Haystack and Scud as their fav riders has to have a sense of humour


Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 17 2008, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I said may because I'm being "koi" (lookup: homonym)

This entire thread has been about facts that I believe prove the situation.

1. Stoner ran the 07's at Qatar and obliterated the field (that fact was contributed by a detractor lol) but he hasn't run them since.
2. Stoner was 10+ seconds slower at China in decent racing conditions despite having gained 10kph in a straightline.
3. Stoner has complained about lack of responsiveness from the front tire, suggesting something substantial has been changed.
4. Suddenly, Ducati and Suzuki both cite poor chassis dynamics as reasons they can't get the new bridgestones to work. The Yamaha seems to make decent use of them, besides Qatar when Rossi tried to run his old Michelin setup.
5. The manufacturers make blanket tire recommendations to everyone in the entire field.
6. Lorenzo and Rossi both ran M/M at Jerez and finished next to one another.
7. Rossi was present at a technical meeting. He can beg for B-stones from afar like every other rider. Why did he have to be there? Like boosting riders from key markets--they don't even hide his participation anymore.

Then there are the weird perhaps coincidental occurrences (koi):
1. Eurosport announcers get a new stat column from Dorna, apparently they are particularly interested in the number of g's at the corner entry of the major straights at China (a little over 2g's).
2. At Jerez all B-stone runners run M/M, all Michelin runners run M/M except Pedrosa who runs M/H and wins a huge race in his home market.
3. Ducati, who have nailed nearly every setup since the beginning of the 07 season, seem to think that an M/M 2008 setup will work best for Casey. Casey once again whinges that the team suddenly doesn't listen to him.
4. Marco is blindingly fast out of nowhere at China. I'm almost certain he was running 07s after Ducati requested to run them for Stoner but got them for Melandri instead. Hmmmm........bottom of every practice sheet but 5th in the race. Probably legit
5. Long term collusion is implied in Dorna's mission statement.

I could go on for days.
I will reply to this properly, but have major jet-lag ATM.

The one bit that stands out, even in my current state, is "Lorenzo and Rossi both ran M/M at Jerez and finished next to one another." - they're running different makes of tyres, as well as different constructions for different bikes/riders. Unless you think Michelin and Bridgestone are now producing identical rubber, and you really believe that the only constructions available are H, M & S, that makes no sense.