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Four races, 3 1/2 different men win...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ May 24 2008, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At the end of the day Dorna is a business, out to make money. If the Doctor struggling for 2 seasons sees viewership/attendance down for the first time in years, someone's bound to sit up and take notice. If it IS Rossi bringing in the fans (and it would be short sighted to think otherwise for the majority of fans), and he's got 2 or 3 years left in him, then chances are that if they were in a position to get him what he wants, then they would have. It's business. You would do the same. In an ideal world the organisers would be neutral, yes, but they would be also a non-profit making organisation. Not the case here for sure.
I may be misrepresenting lex (to whom jumkie was referring), but I think this was actually his point. Dorna rather than a sporting body such as those which formerly ran top level motor sport are accountants and purveyors of multi-media product, and their motivation seems to be entirely commercial as you say. They had no problem with rossi being both the best rider and having the best equipment for his 3 hrc world championships. To be fair they probably preferred the 2 yamaha world championships where he had inferior equipment at least in 2004 but still won, but only because this played even better to the punters. I don't think it is all that out there to suggest that they would have preferred stoner not to win last year, given the effects on the tv ratings, even though if ducati and bridgestone did have an advantage whilst complying with the rules this should be no problem, and in fact theoretically should be laudable in a prototype formula.

The leap of faith is that dorna have conspired with the tyre manufacturers to take away ducati's advantage. As I have said before I believe this is unlikely, and I think lex actually concedes the point that as well as dorna being proveably incompetent too many people would have knowledge of such a conspiracy for it to remain secret. I also think that it is hard to draw conclusions about ducati/stoner's tyres this year, as conditions have been different except at estoril and jerez where mistakes and misadventure played a hand, and where stoner wasn't on top last year anyway; I think that they probably made mistakes with the chassis tuning at these venues in 2008 as well.

My working hypothesis is that the yamaha is better this year, and if they have produced a better bike under the same rules good luck to them and to rossi, who is obviously riding very well.

I wouldn't be so sanguine about saying that it would be understandable if they did favour rossi for commercial reasons though; at the end of that road sports entertainment and rock'n roll wrestling lie
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 24 2008, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Were not gonna see these press releases any time soon mate.

It's never gonna be perfect, it's a sport that is used by businesses


Yes Rossi used his influence to get the Stones, but to be honest, I don't see it as a conspiracy to fix the championship.

Pete, I basically agree. Maybe NOT conspiracy (this is really much too difficult and requires much thought to pull off). I do believe, as it seems you do too, that when given the opportunity, decisions will be made (or actions not taken) that benefit the promotion of the sport. In this case, whatever suits the icon and most popular figures of the sport (Rossi, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, and others).

So in part, I do agree that its not the "classic" definition of "conspiracy" but its as close as you can get, a rather defacto/proxy-conspiracy of sorts. Let me explain. I highlighted the word "suit" above as the premise of my explanation. I believe Dorna have made and continue to make decsions that "suit" their riders, especially the most popular ones (notice plural). I suspose this could somehow fit a mild definition of "conspiracy"; in that its the riders that are from within the series (lower classes) who ultimately benefit from changes made. This of course makes sense, it wouldn't make much buisness/promotion sense to have fans follow and root the 250 guys only to have them struggle at the MotoGP level. So Dorna has narrowed the focus, by simulating the skillset and unique characteristics of these lower clases, which in turn makes it more difficult for those outside of the series to compete. In effect, this has shut out otherwise competative racers more "suited" to this dynamic. (Please, don't wait for the press release by Dorna on my theory).

Now Rossi is a special case, in that he doesn't need much help to make be successful. He of all the riders on the grid is clearly an extraordinary talented rider. He is the only one who can claim success in 500s, 990s, & 800. (Lets not forget he is also a product of the lower-classes as well). But the point I'm making is that last year he needed a little extra something to get him over the hump, whether it was real or imagined (I have never thought that B-stones were better, I defy anybody to show me a post where I have said that). So I think they let him have his tires to eliminate whatever hang up he had about tires. The tires part of the puzzle was all Dorna (both of us agree), no advantage gained in quipment (only preferencial treatment). The real benefit here is that it "suit" him and them to make the man happy. Now couple this with the fact the Yamaha is the best machine out there (I can make the case if you wish, however, if its too controversial, then lets just say its much improved), the effect is we have a happy confident Rossi and the results are showing. This has been aided by decsions made to "suit" him. Now of course, nothing could be gained if he didn't have the ability to make this small mental edge pay dividends. And it has, viewership is up, the forum is re-energized, the buzz is in the air, even MotoGP.com is sporting a "Rossi is back banner" from an advertiser (and the real tell all is a lack of dumb & dumber sightings). All is good in the world. Notice I didn't say Dorna have made it more difficult for Stoner, just that they made some decsions that would "suit" Rossi. Its kinda like the plecibo pill, not really anything better, but it has an effect mentally.


I can add more but I gotta go to some stupid wedding for a co-worker. Its a holiday weekend here (Memorial Day). I think people who get wed on holidays should be shot, I'd rather go riding on my days off.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ May 24 2008, 03:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Aren't you an ex army/navy/marines/whatever guy? Doesn't this kind of sentiment count as treason? I wouldn't like to see you getting executed. At least not before Roger's had his day at Laguna.
I sorta responded to you in my reply to Pete.

But I just wanted to comment on this particular part of your post. I know you may have said it jokingly, but yes, unfortunately, it is considered anti-patriotic (some would say "treasoness") to disagree with ones governement over going to war by some people (few of which are my friends). But I assure you and anybody reading this post (including any wire taping monitors out there) that I love my country, enough even to join and die for it (as I was in the military close to a decade). I grapple with my conscience often as to what I would have done if I was now enlisted, what would I do--Fight in war or fight for peace. Truth is, I think I would have followed orders, as some of my friends currently do now (yet have similar sentiments about this particular war). They do it to support and defend their immediate fellows (yes, I am aware at the expense of innocent lives lost). Its a tough call, conscience vs the progmatic reality of being in a fox hole. I don't have the answer really, perhaps it may be cowardness of conscience on my part, but I would most likely be in that fox hole as well rather than make any actions to remove myself as a statement for peace (sorry to admit). I feel both fortunate and guilty that I don't have to make that difficult choice as I am now a civilian, enjoying the benefit of voicing my opinion, though it be more for peace than war. Perhaps this is a strange position for a person who as you put it is an "ex whatever guy", but it touched a nerve hence my profound response. (Yes, I know you meant it lightheartedly, no worries girl).

Carry on with the topic: Rossi is a cheater (just kidding, he's not, Stoner is, or something..)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 24 2008, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I sorta responded to you in my reply to Pete.

But I just wanted to comment on this particular part of your post. I know you may have said it jokingly, but yes, unfortunately, it is considered anti-patriotic (some would say "treasoness") to disagree with ones governement over going to war by some people (few of which are my friends). But I assure you and anybody reading this post (including any wire taping monitors out there) that I love my country, enough even to join and die for it (as I was in the military close to a decade). I grapple with my conscience often as to what I would have done if I was now enlisted, what would I do--Fight in war or fight for peace. Truth is, I think I would have followed orders, as some of my friends currently do now (yet have similar sentiments about this particular war). They do it to support and defend their immediate fellows (yes, I am aware at the expense of innocent lives lost). Its a tough call, conscience vs the progmatic reality of being in a fox hole. I don't have the answer really, perhaps it may be cowardness of conscience on my part, but I would most likely be in that fox hole as well rather than make any actions to remove myself as a statement for peace (sorry to admit). I feel both fortunate and guilty that I don't have to make that difficult choice as I am now a civilian, enjoying the benefit of voicing my opinion, though it be more for peace than war. Perhaps this is a strange position for a person who as you put it is an "ex whatever guy", but it touched a nerve hence my profound response. (Yes, I know you meant it lightheartedly, no worries girl).

Carry on with the topic: Rossi is a cheater (just kidding, he's not, Stoner is, or something..)

The best post I've heard from you RJ.
And that do count for something. Allthough we have our tire(some) disagreements I do respect your other views. I don't have to agree in absolutly everything you say in this post but your honest, balanced and open opinion come clearly throuh and I respect that a lot.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 24 2008, 05:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The leap of faith is that dorna have conspired with the tyre manufacturers to take away ducati's advantage. As I have said before I believe this is unlikely, and I think lex actually concedes the point that as well as dorna being proveably incompetent too many people would have knowledge of such a conspiracy for it to remain secret. I also think that it is hard to draw conclusions about ducati/stoner's tyres this year, as conditions have been different except at estoril and jerez where mistakes and misadventure played a hand, and where stoner wasn't on top last year anyway; I think that they probably made mistakes with the chassis tuning at these venues in 2008 as well.

No, I'm saying that DORNA went into the tire meetings then came out patting themselves on the back for brokering a deal. They told everyone what we have is a prototype series with a prototype tire, but in fact it appears as though they have changed the tire rules substantially. They have kept it secret b/c they weren't sure how the fans would react to the new rules and they didn't want the legitimacy of the next champ being questioned (like it has been for 2 years. Rossi and Michelin had the worst bike, then Casey had the best bike that rode itself).

They couldn't cover the fact that Rossi was now riding stones so they pretending they were the champions of fairness and close racing.
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What twats.

I'm saying the person most hurt by the changes and least protected by DORNA is Casey Stoner. This is the second consecutive year a world champ has showed up without his world championship winning equipment. It hurts the sport when the champ rides like a chump the following year.

I believe there is mildly convincing evidence that the new rules have given DORNA an in to spread wins AT THE BEGINNING of the season to keep people interested, then it will be laissez faire. I guess you can call MotoGP NASBIKE now, b/c they've practically instituted a chase this season.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 24 2008, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, I'm saying that DORNA went into the tire meetings then came out patting themselves on the back for brokering a deal. They told everyone what we have is a prototype series with a prototype tire, but in fact it appears as though they have changed the tire rules substantially. They have kept it secret b/c they weren't sure how the fans would react to the new rules and they didn't want the legitimacy of the next champ being questioned (like it has been for 2 years. Rossi and Michelin had the worst bike, then Casey had the best bike that rode itself).

They couldn't cover the fact that Rossi was now riding stones so they pretending they were the champions of fairness and close racing.
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What twats.

I'm saying the person most hurt by the changes and least protected by DORNA is Casey Stoner. This is the second consecutive year a world champ has showed up without his world championship winning equipment. It hurts the sport when the champ rides like a chump the following year.

I believe there is mildly convincing evidence that the new rules have given DORNA an in to spread wins AT THE BEGINNING of the season to keep people interested, then it will be laissez faire. I guess you can call MotoGP NASBIKE now, b/c they've practically instituted a chase this season.


Can I be controversial and say that it takes a Rossi, a Doohan or a Rainey to defend a title? Casey was red hot last year, but this year is a new game.

Pete
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ May 24 2008, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pete, I basically agree. Maybe NOT conspiracy (this is really much too difficult and requires much thought to pull off). I do believe, as it seems you do too, that when given the opportunity, decisions will be made (or actions not taken) that benefit the promotion of the sport. In this case, whatever suits the icon and most popular figures of the sport (Rossi, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, and others).

Just a few points here Jumkie.
Going to 990cc did not axactly benefit the 500 and 250 guys. It was rather a common opinion that it gained the SB guys. But it was also a huge leap in popularity for motoGP. See my point?

I strongly doubt that going from 990 to 800 were planed as gaining the 250 guys as much as i did. Nobody realy expected the bikes to change that much. Less power, yes. More corner spees, yes. But nobody outside were able to point out how the reduced rotational mass would change the corner entry style as it later has been explained. After all, a 800cc 4 stroke sounds like a bike much more similar to a 990 4 stroke than a 250cc 2 stroke. And after all, you all have been complaining about how cluless Dorna are so they should be the last to find out.

Together with the 800s came the new tire rules. Lets just agree that this was definatly NOT something that gained the top riders of 2006. All in all dorna does make desitions the think will help popularity and viwer numbers. They are first of all the comercial right holders so who can blame them. And as in all situations our opinions and desitions allways get somewhat colored of our position. It's hard or even impossible to be 100% objective. So, I'm sure they are listen more closely when Rossi opens his moth compared to other riders.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 24 2008, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just a few points here Jumkie.
Less power, yes. More corner spees, yes. But nobody outside were able to point out how the reduced rotational mass would change the corner entry style as it later has been explained.
What explanation are you referring to? and by reduced rotational mass do you mean the reduction in gyroscopic forces?
 
<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%I've had an epiphany

Tech 3 has really puzzled me this season. The consensus/reporting claims that Yamaha have been funding Tech 3 b/c it seemed to be the only thing that made sense, plus I was willing to trust the reports.

But when I started thinking about budget I couldn't help but wonder how they hell they were doing it. Last year tech 3 were backmarkers. They didn't have the bike or the crew to do anything. Worst of all they couldn't even afford to buy proper tires (they got tires for free from Dunlop).

So I began to wonder how in the hell Yamaha could afford to buy new pneumatic technology, completely overhaul the M1, pay Rossi/Burgess and then double the size of their team!!!?????????

Then I watched LeMans again and I saw the same thing I always see and I reacted the same way I always react but this time it gelled.

Lorenzo passed Pedrosa and his crew went nuts, one of them had a different uniform than the rest. I though "What the hell is that Tech 3 engineer doing in the FIAT box?".........oh yeah that is the
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...................... that's the Michelin uniform.

[cue suspenseful strings]

<span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%MICHELIN IS RUNNING TECH 3

That's why Michelin upped their budget. That's why Tech 3 have all brand new toys. That's why Tech 3 are running that hideous paint job (they can't put Michelin on the side of the bike). That's why Tech 3 became a second factory squad. Tech 3 Yamaha is actually Michelin Yamaha--Michelin's factory supported test squad!!!!

When B-stone have an off weekend Michelin want to do everything in their power to make sure Rossi is the last Yamaha across the line and absent from the rostrum. Ezy OK'd it b/c he needed more than 16 bikes on the grid. Unbelievable. This is the real conspiracy!!!!!! The one I knew they were covering up!!!!!!!

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This is too much evil concentrated in one sport. It's worse than Major League Baseball & NASCAR combined!!!!!Where can I buy some yellow glasses!!!!



I'm going in search of clues, but there will be few. This is the near perfect caper of motogp's authenticity.

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OK it's not that bad, but it is still lame as all hell. Budgets are through the roof. Almost no one can afford to race. Any wonder Ezy is making the new 600+cc class NASBIKE?

1. Colin being confirmed after Toseland makes a lot more sense now. Yamaha were scared to death to put Lorenzo on Tech 3. If Michelin backed Tech 3 and upgraded their equipment Lorenzo would certainly threaten Colin and anger the title sponsor. Yamaha didn't know Tech 3 would have factory support until after the Malaysia meeting (Oct. 21, 2007) when Michelin got permission to fund the project. After 3 weeks of hammering out the details Michelin/Tech 3/Yamaha made the formal announcement about Colin, Lorenzo, and Michelin rubber for Tech 3 (Nov 13, 2007).
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That's my story--horrifying isn't it?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ May 24 2008, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can I be controversial and say that it takes a Rossi, a Doohan or a Rainey to defend a title? Casey was red hot last year, but this year is a new game.

Pete
Certainly true that premier class titles historically have usually only been defended by great riders. Amongst others, 2 requirements to defend a title are the technological prowess to continue to provide the rider with a good enough bike and the rider having the ability to continue to develop the bike, both of which would seem relevant to the stoner/ducati situation.
 
----

One thing that leaves me puzzled is why riders and teams are not credited properly when they win. When Stoner was winning, according to some it was all because of electronics and tyres. Bah. I never bought that.

Now Rossi comes back - after a LOT of work - and his victories are immediately attributed to Bridgestone conspiracies that are now supposedly favoring him over Stoner... Bah bah. I'm not buying this either
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Then, Dorna badly wants Rossi to win, someone say... Really? If there was a conspiracy by Dorna to keep their showman Rossi winning, why would they have changed the rules and handicapped his Michelin tyres in 2007? Hmmm... Unless you think Dorna 'staged' Rossi's crisis only to make him 'come back' in glory and attract even more audiences...?! Bah bah bah
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It's interesting the view about Tech3... But is there really something wrong with that? If there is now a special effort by Michelin to beat Rossi, well, that's not a conspiracy - it's part of racing. I don't think they can go too much out of their way for Yamaha only, though, because there is a certain mama Honda among their dear customers who wouldn't be too happy about that...
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So... IMHO Stoner won because he is a great rider - when his package is up to the task he can win any day... Rossi wins for the same reason, he's not only great but also the most experienced. There is no need to look for conspiracies or secret weapons when riders like these win. When things go wrong they may lose of course- that's part of this sport, even the best rider needs a competitive package...
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Cheers
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 25 2008, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>----

One thing that leaves me puzzled is why riders and teams are not credited properly when they win. When Stoner was winning, according to some it was all because of electronics and tyres. Bah. I never bought that.

Now Rossi comes back - after a LOT of work - and his victories are immediately attributed to Bridgestone conspiracies that are now supposedly favoring him over Stoner... Bah bah. I'm not buying this either
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So... IMHO Stoner won because he is a great rider - when his package is up to the task he can win any day... Rossi wins for the same reason, he's not only great but also the most experienced. There is no need to look for conspiracies or secret weapons when riders like these win. When things go wrong they may lose of course- that's part of this sport, even the best rider needs a competitive package...
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Cheers
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I agree completely with this.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 25 2008, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree completely with this.
I do too....BUT, I honestly do not think that Casey could have performed the exceptional way that he did last season without the advances and his unerring faith in T.C. and his seemingly inimitable ability to exploit it on the Ducati. Given the 990 Desmo in '06 -(which people forget was a great bike, one which I believe had it not have been for Barcelona, would have won the title in the hands of Loris)- instead of the LCR Honda that year, I don't think that Casey would've been anywhere near. Sorry, because I know that this will trigger another barrage of derision, but without TC last year Casey wold not have won that championship.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 25 2008, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but without TC last year Casey wold not have won that championship.

Maybe so in your opinion but with TC making things "easier" you would expect the strong to get stronger and the weak to get weaker without it, leaving Casey further ahead.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 25 2008, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe so in your opinion but with TC making things "easier" you would expect the strong to get stronger and the weak to get weaker without it, leaving Casey further ahead.
It hasn't necessarily made things 'easier' for everyone and I've never suggested that it did. Nicky clearly hates it and asks for less; Vale for one would certainly favour a ban because he still knows he's the best out there.

Casey, the tyres, and the bike were collectively an unstoppable package last season. Each component was perfect. I am not in any way questioning Stoners validity as Champion- he's an accomplished ex dirt tracker for Christ sake, which means he's brimming with natural feel and throttle control. Together with Bridgestone and Ducati they were unrivaled last year and I was pleased that they won the title, just as I was pleased when Nicky won it in '06. Hayden was criticised for being a 'surrogate' champion, and in '07 the same detractors, mainly Valentino fans - said it was simply the electronics, tyres and a massive speed advantage, and nothing to do with the rider. That is clearly ....., and I distance myself from those allegations. But I still maintain that minus traction control Casey would not have won that title - sorry, and sorry to dredge up an old debate again.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 25 2008, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It hasn't necessarily made things 'easier' for everyone and I've never suggested that it did. Nicky clearly hates it and asks for less; Vale for one would certainly favour a ban because he still knows he's the best out there.

Casey, the tyres, and the bike were collectively an unstoppable package last season. Each component was perfect. I am not in any way questioning Stoners validity as Champion- he's an accomplished ex dirt tracker for Christ sake, which means he's brimming with natural feel and throttle control. Together with Bridgestone and Ducati they were unrivaled last year and I was pleased that they won the title, just as I was pleased when Nicky won it in '06. Hayden was criticised for being a 'surrogate' champion, and in '07 the same detractors, mainly Valentino fans - said it was simply the electronics, tyres and a massive speed advantage, and nothing to do with the rider. That is clearly ....., and I distance myself from those allegations. But I still maintain that minus traction control Casey would not have won that title - sorry, and sorry to dredge up an old debate again.

Its all good, if i remember correctly last time you voiced a similar opinion i took the bate without actually enquiring what it is that makes you feel TC is a factor worth mentioning above any other. Would you care to share?

You seem to appreciate how much goes into winning a world championship and how many pieces of the puzzle need to be in place. So why do you feal that last year TC was the pivotal factor over tyres, bike, rider and team. And equally, why do you feel this factor is worth mentioning above the many assisting factors in every single world championship campaign before Stoner?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 24 2008, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm saying the person most hurt by the changes and least protected by DORNA is Casey Stoner. This is the second consecutive year a world champ has showed up without his world championship winning equipment. It hurts the sport when the champ rides like a chump the following year.
I appreciate that with conspiracy theories there are no press releases clearly stating that the conspiracy is real.

The bit I have been arguing against since you started this chain of thought is that Stoner is being disadvantaged. From the Neil Spalding article, and pictures of the difference between the chassis set up of Rossi and Lorenzo's bikes, it is clear that Burgess/Rossi are having to mess around with the bike setup and rider style in order to get the type of Bridgestones that were working for Stoner last year to work for them. There seems to be no evidence that Bridgestone have started to make race tyres for Rossi at the expense of Stoner. So what, in your opinion, has been removed from Stoner's 2007 winning equipment?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 25 2008, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MICHELIN IS RUNNING TECH 3

That's why Michelin upped their budget. That's why Tech 3 have all brand new toys. That's why Tech 3 are running that hideous paint job (they can't put Michelin on the side of the bike). That's why Tech 3 became a second factory squad. Tech 3 Yamaha is actually Michelin Yamaha--Michelin's factory supported test squad!!!!
Doesn't tie in too well with the rumours that Honda are helping to finance Michelin this year, or with Pedrosa's championship standing. .... cheese colours are very Michelin reminiscent though.....
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ May 25 2008, 01:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What explanation are you referring to? and by reduced rotational mass do you mean the reduction in gyroscopic forces?

Well, the only explananation anyone has been able to give on the dramatic changes on a seemingly smaller displacement reduction is the decreased rotational mass. Yes, one of the major results are reduction in gyroscopic forces. As I remember it everyone including the riders were surpriced by the 800 as it was so different and AFAIK this is the only explanation given except from the obvious reduction in displacement. Remember, these bikes are actually heavier then than the old 990 dry so nobody expected the change to be so dramatic.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ May 25 2008, 02:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>----

One thing that leaves me puzzled is why riders and teams are not credited properly when they win. When Stoner was winning, according to some it was all because of electronics and tyres. Bah. I never bought that.

Now Rossi comes back - after a LOT of work - and his victories are immediately attributed to Bridgestone conspiracies that are now supposedly favoring him over Stoner... Bah bah. I'm not buying this either
<


Then, Dorna badly wants Rossi to win, someone say... Really? If there was a conspiracy by Dorna to keep their showman Rossi winning, why would they have changed the rules and handicapped his Michelin tyres in 2007? Hmmm... Unless you think Dorna 'staged' Rossi's crisis only to make him 'come back' in glory and attract even more audiences...?! Bah bah bah
<


It's interesting the view about Tech3... But is there really something wrong with that? If there is now a special effort by Michelin to beat Rossi, well, that's not a conspiracy - it's part of racing. I don't think they can go too much out of their way for Yamaha only, though, because there is a certain mama Honda among their dear customers who wouldn't be too happy about that...
<


So... IMHO Stoner won because he is a great rider - when his package is up to the task he can win any day... Rossi wins for the same reason, he's not only great but also the most experienced. There is no need to look for conspiracies or secret weapons when riders like these win. When things go wrong they may lose of course- that's part of this sport, even the best rider needs a competitive package...
<


Cheers
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There are two sets of tires.

The 2007 rubber and the 2008 rubber. AFAIK the 2007 is what Stoner won on, the 2008 rubber is the new stuff for this season that's supposed to help them win in Europe. It was tested several times last year.

DORNA didn't disadvantage Bridgestone. I'm not suggesting they did. I'm saying that DORNA made changes to reduce the cost of tires and the biggest loser to this point has been Stoner. Obviously, the 08's are supposed to be helping him be more competitive, but at China they were hugely slow and Stoner doesn't like the feel of them at all.

I think Suzuki are also losing out. Verme went back to the old 07 compound at LeMans and had a great race. He's good at LeMans but getting the 07s back on his bike did something for him.

What happened after DORNA realized they had screwed Rossi out of championship caliber tires? Ezy forced Bridgestone to supply Rossi
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DORNA didn't think they would ruin Michelin, they thought they were writing a piece of technical legislation that would reduce cost. Like all their other technical legilation as of late, it failed miserably
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They accidentally screwed Rossi last season (well sort of his tires were falling apart in 2006 too) and they are accidentally screwing Stoner this season. How much you wanna bet Ezy doesn't force Michelin to take Stoner on at the end of this season.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ May 25 2008, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What happened after DORNA realized they had screwed Rossi out of championship caliber tires? Ezy forced Bridgestone to supply Rossi
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DORNA didn't think they would ruin Michelin, they thought they were writing a piece of technical legislation that would reduce cost. Like all their other technical legilation as of late, it failed miserably
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I agree with this except that I am not sure bridgestone needed to be forced. Any argument that starts with the premise that dorna are incompetent has immediate credibilitywith me. I believe as you do that their efforts almost led to michelin leaving the sport, after one year where michelin riders finished only second and third after finishing first for more than a decade. If they did manouevre to get bridgestone tyres for rossi alone it probably hasn't helped him as I believe he would be going at least as well on michelins. As I have said before if they tried to deliberately thwart stoner it would probably result in him winning every race by 30 seconds
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