FINALLY CONFIRMED!! Ducati Welcome Lorenzo

Lorenzo went to Yamaha as a junior teammate to rossi.
Does anybody seriously think he is really that concerned with who his teammate might be at Ducati?

Gaz said:

IMO only, but anyone offered the seat would be a fool not to take it as it is a genuinely competitive seat in a very very good team that will (or may, depends on th theory) allow a solid chance at a championship plus provides tuteledge from Rossi (who despite the failings, has a lot of positives for riders so inclined)

Plus, it gives time to establish oneself in the team for when it comes under the management of Rossi in 2019 (my theory)

Click to expand...

Rossi will tutor a junior teammate only to the extent that he doesn't beat rossi. History has proven that as soon as somebody is a threat to the yellow one, they get cut off.

Bern1 said:

Rossi will tutor a junior teammate only to the extent that he doesn't beat rossi. History has proven that as soon as somebody is a threat to the yellow one, they get cut off.

Click to expand...

I think I remember when Simoncelli started racing motogp the advice from VR stopped. Words straight out of VR's mouth.

Bern1 said:

Rossi will tutor a junior teammate only to the extent that he doesn't beat rossi. History has proven that as soon as somebody is a threat to the yellow one, they get cut off.

Click to expand...

Absolutely.

But this situation may be slightly different as in ALL prior cases, VR was nowhere near retirement wheras today, he will need to look at the future given his position within Yamaha and the stories surrounding his future Yamaha roles.

steeeeeve said:

I think I remember when Simoncelli started racing motogp the advice from VR stopped. Words straight out of VR's mouth.

Click to expand...

Was said to have stopped once Simoncelli started to get results nearer the front.

Nobody tutors someone else to beat them. Rossi may give good advice to help someone learn the tracks and bikes, but once they get the hang of it they should be on their own to learn the how to find more speed.

Bern1 said:

Rossi will tutor a junior teammate only to the extent that he doesn't beat rossi. History has proven that as soon as somebody is a threat to the yellow one, they get cut off.

Click to expand...

J. Lo & MM probably wouldn't tutor and junior teammate AT ALL. At least Rossi gives advice to help a junior rider learn the ropes.

moto vudu said:

J. Lo & MM probably wouldn't tutor and junior teammate AT ALL. At least Rossi gives advice to help a junior rider learn the ropes.

Click to expand...

Nice and subtle there MV but of the three riders you mention, only one has been in a position to have 'Junior' riders, the others in their MotoGP have been THE junior rider

I have no doubt that JL does not care and would tutor as best possible, as after all, he is sharing data

Gaz said:

Nice and subtle there MV but of the three riders you mention, only one has been in a position to have 'Junior' riders, the others in their MotoGP have been THE junior rider

I have no doubt that JL does not care and would tutor as best possible, as after all, he is sharing data

Click to expand...

J Lo will share data because it's not really up to him. If the team wants data shared to assist with bike development and setup, it will be shared.

Other than the sharing of data, I doubt JL or MM would give much riding advice. So I don't see how Rossi cutting off his advice once a junior rider gets up to speed is a knock against him. It may have taken Marco much longer to start getting results near the front if it weren't for Rossi.

moto vudu said:

J Lo will share data because it's not really up to him. If the team wants data shared to assist with bike development and setup, it will be shared.

Click to expand...

And there lay the crux .............. it should not be up to a rider to share, or not to share

moto vudu said:

Other than the sharing of data, I doubt JL or MM would give much riding advice. So I don't see how Rossi cutting off his advice once a junior rider gets up to speed is a knock against him. It may have taken Marco much longer to start getting results near the front if it weren't for Rossi.

Click to expand...

Data can mean a hell of a lot when being tutored as riding is an individual skill and thus the tutoring is not all about riding, but interpreting data or feelings, lines, when to pickup the bike to get the best out of a situation etc. Sure these guys learn a lot on the way up, but MotoGP is a different beast

Bern1 said:

Lorenzo went to Yamaha as a junior teammate to rossi.
Does anybody seriously think he is really that concerned with who his teammate might be at Ducati?

Click to expand...

I can't see why anyone would expect Valentino or anyone else to tutor a team mate, when he is obviously still chasing a championship and has just signed a contract for a large amount of money where attempting to win the championship is essentially his job description. If at some stage he is out of contention while his team-mate is still contending then it would change, and I guess it would be reasonable to expect him to co- operate with team goals like the manufacturers title but not at the expense of his own riders' title bid. I guess if he was transitioning to a management role, he could be employed in a tutoring role, but I personally would not approve of one of the few rides capable of winning being subsumed to such a role.

It is the latter to which people objected, years of 1 of the 4 plum rides being taken up by Colin Edwards essentially working as a test mule for Valentino. I believe all to which any rider should be entitled is equal treatment including MM and JL, who may very well prefer to be the sole focus as well. I haven't really seen any evidence that Jorge has sought more than equal treatment with Valentino at Yamaha, although what I have seen also doesn't suggest Ben Spies got very strong support from them either.

Certainly it was widely reported Stoner had no problem with Dovi and DP having his data when at HRC, while iirc Dani didn't data share at least initially.

moto vudu said:

J. Lo & MM probably wouldn't tutor and junior teammate AT ALL. At least Rossi gives advice to help a junior rider learn the ropes.

Click to expand...

That's not true. Marquez and Lorenzo have schooled Rossi at least 5 times.

Jumkie said:

That's not true. Marquez and Lorenzo have schooled Rossi at least 5 times.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and MM received VR46 tutoring lessons last year at Argentina and Assen.

moto vudu said:

Yeah, and MM received VR46 tutoring lessons last year at Argentina and Assen.

Click to expand...

Oh, I don't think you want to get into who schooled who head to head between Rossi and Marquez. It's kinda lopsided. The good news for you is, in the words of Rossi, 'Valentino "has a new fan", Michelin.' There's no way Rossi had a chance if Dorna not tampered with Bridgestone supplying the series.

Jumkie said:

Oh, I don't think you want to get into who schooled who head to head between Rossi and Marquez. It's kinda lopsided. The good news for you is, in the words of Rossi, 'Valentino "has a new fan", Michelin.' There's no way Rossi had a chance if Dorna not tampered with Bridgestone supplying the series.

Click to expand...

Ok so let's work this out. Jlo and Marc apparently were better suited to riding the Bridgestones, correct? At least that's what I can imply from what you said. And, Rossi appears better suited for the Michelin's. It's too early in the season to say at this point, but for the sake of argument, let's assume Rossi does better than the spaniards this year.

Rossi is better suited for Michelin, Marc and JLo are best on Bridgestone. So how do you possibly determine who the more skilled rider truly is?

Could one also make the argument that the only reason Rossi lost the title last year is because the series is rigged in favor of those who ride better on Bridgestone?

Jumkie said:

Oh, I don't think you want to get into who schooled who head to head between Rossi and Marquez. It's kinda lopsided. The good news for you is, in the words of Rossi, 'Valentino "has a new fan", Michelin.' There's no way Rossi had a chance if Dorna not tampered with Bridgestone supplying the series.

Rossi's artificial record continues to be fabricated.

Dorna brokered return to Yamaha: check
Dorna return of Michelin tires: check

Click to expand...

I don't think Michelin replacing Bridgestone has anything to do with Rossi.

tps7c said:

Ok so let's work this out. Jlo and Marc apparently were better suited to riding the Bridgestones, correct? at least that's what I think you're saying there. And, Rossi appears better suited for the Michelin's. It's too early to say at this point, but for the sake of argument, let's assume Rossi does better than the spaniards this year.

Rossi is better suited for Michelin, Marc and JLo are best on Bridge. So how do you possibly determine who the more skilled rider truly is?

Click to expand...

No, im not saying that at all. Bridgestone made a general purpose tire and because of their philosophy and location, the tire was very stable and not prone to reworks as if they were searching for the perfect formula for one rider.

Michelin were/are known for exactly the opposite philosophy, and because of their location, are prone to rework the construction and compounds to find that wining combination for one rider, Rossi. The guy they used to already favor between 2001-2006. During the SNS era they made one off customs for Rossi. Of the few other riders that got SNSs, they got Rossi’s spec. Its basically the same .... you saw at Jerez, but instead of custom tires for supposedly individual riders, Michelin made Rossi SNS and supplied them to the entire grid. But it's not odd that the tires didn't work for everyone else with dramatic severity?

Jerez should be a stunning realization for those paying attention. It was an absolute outlier, and it turns out everyone agreed, tires were the singular factor that decided the highly uncharacteristic outcome. I don't think most people would recognize the results of a rigged system if it came out and bit them on the ....

Jumkie said:

No, im not saying that at all. Bridgestone made a general purpose tire and because of their philosophy and location, the tire was very stable and not prone to reworks as if they were searching for the perfect formula for one rider.

Michelin were/are known for exactly the opposite philosophy, and because of their location, are prone to rework the construction and compounds to find that wining combination for one rider, Rossi. The guy they used to already favor between 2001-2006. During the SNS era they made one off customs for Rossi. Of the few other riders that got SNSs, they got Rossi’s spec. Its basically the same .... you saw at Jerez, but instead of custom tires for supposedly individual riders, Michelin made Rossi SNS and supplied them to the entire grid. But it's not odd that the tires didn't work for everyone else with dramatic severity?

Jerez should be a stunning realization for those paying attention. It was an absolute outlier, and it turns out everyone agreed, tires were the singular factors that decided the highly uncharacteristic outcome. I don't think most people would recognize the results of a rigged system if it came out and bit them on the ....

Click to expand...

Great job by Michelin, magically making tires that ONLY Rossi can ride! Served him well at COTA and Argentina.

Jumkie said:

No, im not saying that at all. Bridgestone made a general purpose tire and because of their philosophy and location, the tire was very stable and not prone to reworks as if they were searching for the perfect formula for one rider.

Michelin were/are known for exactly the opposite philosophy, and because of their location, are prone to rework the construction and compounds to find that wining combination for one rider, Rossi. The guy they used to already favor between 2001-2006. During the SNS era they made one off customs for Rossi. Of the few other riders that got SNSs, they got Rossi’s spec. Its basically the same .... you saw at Jerez, but instead of custom tires for supposedly individual riders, Michelin made Rossi SNS and supplied them to the entire grid. But it's not odd that the tires didn't work for everyone else with dramatic severity?

Jerez should be a stunning realization for those paying attention. It was an absolute outlier, and it turns out everyone agreed, tires were the singular factors that decided the highly uncharacteristic outcome. I don't think most people would recognize the results of a rigged system if it came out and bit them on the ....

Click to expand...

Ok well let's assume these tires are better suited for Rossi. Wouldn't these tires need to be "Saturday Night Specials" in order to actually help him? Wouldn't they need to be created from Rossi's data on Friday and Saturday? Otherwise how would they craft a tire specifically suited for him without having any idea of what he needs for a particular track? I'm asking seriously. I love a good conspiracy but I think this one is lacking evidence, my dear Watson...

moto vudu said:

Great job by Michelin, magically making tires that ONLY Rossi can ride! Served him well at COTA and Argentina.

Click to expand...

What don't you understand about the word "location"?

SNS "Saturday NIGHT Specials. Why do you think the word NIGHT was in that acronym?

Michelin's forte is EUROPE. Hence why they were clueless in Argentina & COTA.

Jumkie said:

What don't you understand about the word "location"?

SNS "Saturday NIGHT Specials. Why do you think the word NIGHT was in that acronym?

Click to expand...

I thought you and Michael were friends? In another thread he mentioned that because of how tires are distributed, it would be next to impossible for Rossi to get a special blend in this era.