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Rossi has for some time now been trying to work out how Casey rode the Duc. Following him ( even on the Honda ) is all just part of that. Stoners just making more mileage out of mentioning it.
Estoril MotoGP: Rossi and Stoner clash again
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There is a little thing called a race to go this week-end till an assessment can be made about whether stoner's riding has been significantly affected.
You also make my point for me; the fact that it was rossi who took stoner out rather than elias is rather the point, even we incredibly biased stoner fans think rossi is a little better than tony elias, and nicky was not in contention for the world championship; my powers of observation obviously don't approach yours, but he looked a little annoyed in a more analogous situation when he was taken out by pedrosa in 2006 but heroically restrained himself. I also don't think anyone would claim that stoner is as calm or as nice a bloke as nicky, but that is rather beside the point. I don't recall rossi being all that serene about being taken out by elias either. I do recall rossi engaging in feuds with biaggi and gibernau, who never took him out, which lasted for years but I guess that's different.
Just as an aside, how do you think lorenzo, the only other rider who has been consistently competitive against rossi, which might make some (obviously very biased) observers think he is not entirely in the category of being unworthy to touch the hem of rossi's garment, would have reacted to being taken out like stoner?
Stop dodging and weaving Mick
Explain the invented towing crap, explain how Rossi could have possibly benefited from being so far behind Stoner? At least if Stoner is going to continue to stir the pot about Jerez make it relevant and not delusional. This was a ....... act.
Yes Rossi was pissed with Elias but not for a month. Yes Rossi engaged in feuds with Biaggi and Gibernau, and won the battles, Biaggi deliberately tried to run Rossi off track which started that, hardly an accident and none of it invented! Gibernau's team was responsible for a very harsh penalty against Rossi, for something that most teams did, which cost Rossi a race he would have probably won in 2004-and it was no accident.
This History makes Stoner's behavior even less acceptable and more ridiculous! Creating false accusations against Rossi isn't really going to do much for Stoner now is it, Casey hasn't proven to be too good at the mind games, and this just confirms his very fragile mental state.
But continue to enlighten us on how its ok for Stoner to carry on inventing incidents like this.
Jorge wouldn't have liked it too much either, but I seriously doubt he would have acted like Stoner currently is. Kropo has a good article on this, Rossi and Stoner have history, most of it bad, Stoner hasn't gotten over Laguna 2008 and 2008-09 in general. He spent most of his time defending himself in 2007, only to fail ever since. It is yet to be seen whether or not he will factor this year, I have my doubts now.
Rossi has for some time now been trying to work out how Casey rode the Duc. Following him ( even on the Honda ) is all just part of that. Stoners just making more mileage out of mentioning it.
More like Stoner is still trying to take credit for any speed the Ducati may show
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More like Stoner is still trying to take credit for any speed the Ducati may show
glad you acknowledge thats where the "Ducati speed" came from in the first place
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Talps, let me ask (and you no doubt rebut).
If the team of Valentino Rossi were found/proven to have broken a rule that stood in 2004, should they not have been punished irrespective of whom reported the offence?
Further, should not that punishment have been commensurate with the rules that governed the sport of the day (which at the time allowed for penalties ranging to exclusion from the event and did, if memory serve right require a minimum of a time penalty)?
Again Talps, you may well be correct in that Stoner has not gotten over 2008 Laguna Seca.
But I also propose that one Valentino Rossi also has not gotten over Laguna Seca 2008 as he has of late been the person to raise the event during press conferences when he tries to 'validate' his perception that it was this event that has led to the current animosity between the two.
Of late (emphasis here - of late) I have not seen any comments whereby Stoner has mentioned it without a specific question raising Laguna Seca having been asked by a journalist, yet in transcripts from recent interviews of Rossi I cannot see the same as he has mentioned it when unprompted (again - not in response to a specific 2008 Laguna mention from a journalist)
Gaz
I think what Talps is trying to say is that Stoner's whole attitude at the moment & particularly towards Rossi is that he is frustrated & still wants revenge for past actions & Rossi knows this.
I think this is going to go on all year & will ultimately ruin both thier seasons. I just hope Pedrosa can make things difficult for Lorenzo who is probably looking at this whole thing & thinking oh another title opening up for me!
I think this is going to go on all year & will ultimately ruin both thier seasons. I just hope Pedrosa can make things difficult for Lorenzo who is probably looking at this whole thing & thinking oh another title opening up for me!
At first, I put it down to Stoner just .... stirring Rossi trying to get under his skin. But, what other Aussie has worked with both Rossi & Burges previously, won 5 titles for Honda & was one of the best at mental games when he was racing. DOOHAN. I reckon now Doohan has Stoner back under is wing, he might be behind a few of these games going on at the moment. Having worked with Rossi & Burges, Doohan would have a good idea on what strings to pull to get them to bite. I may be wrong, but I think Doohan & Stoner are having a little laugh with each other at Rossi's expense. The comments at Jerez sounded like Doohan was speaking. Doohan hasn't had anyone at Honda over the last few years who was willing to stand toe to toe with Rossi, so this may be a ploy to rattle him, bring him down a peg or two. And it appears to be working.
Sorry for the late news, jst read same on quali thread.
Sorry for the late news, jst read same on quali thread.
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Hmm.. could be true.. But why would Doohan want to get on wrong terms with Rossi by siding with Stoner? Is it Honda or is it Aussie thing? or a combination of both?
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Hmm.. could be true.. But why would Doohan want to get on wrong terms with Rossi by siding with Stoner? Is it Honda or is it Aussie thing? or a combination of both?
You would probably find that few riders past and present idolise or feel the need to bow down in front of Rossi. They are on the inside and have been there and done that and I have no doubt that the view is slight different to the one we on the outside have. In fact I would suggest that Doohan has contempt for Rossi and his clown antics and media manipulations because Doohan never did any of this. Doohan would respect someone who can do it on their own merits just as he did. If I was to pick who Doohan would more closely relate to it would be Stoner over Rossi every time.
Well said. I can't understand this idolisation and blind worship of riders. I am completely impartial myself and pride myself in my balanced view.
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Thats just your opinion which might not be true. I have no issues in past/present riders (as well as fans) not idolising Rossi. But not idolizing doesn't equate to declare a war of words. Why would Doohan who was a mentor of Rossi turn against him without any issues between him and Rossi?
Its lines like this that you slip into your posts that I have issue with
Putting aside clown antics are you suggesting Rossi's titles/wins are in any way different than that of Doohan? If so care to explain a bit?
Austin
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I don't buy into the Doohan pulling the strings theory. I'm not sure what his capacity is with Honda anymore, but as a former rider, I'd be surprised if he felt his place to offer up advice is media strategy and verbal sparring with Valentino Rossi. If he's still working with Honda, I'd imagine he's just a consultant acting as another avenue for Stoner to get some feedback.
All that said, Renjith, I think Doohan's loyalty to Rossi ended when he signed for Yamaha.
All that said, Renjith, I think Doohan's loyalty to Rossi ended when he signed for Yamaha.
Of course they should have, the point being is that apparently many other teams did the same thing and didn't suffer the punishment, from what I know it was only through a protest from Honda/Sete that the action was taken against the only team for whom the complaint was made against.
From what I've read apparently Max Biaggi's team, the Ducati's and Suzuki's did the same thing, clearing the start posi's of potential sand problems by using scooters to lay rubber on track, however, strangely enough, the only team which evidence was gathered against was the Gauloises Yamaha of Rossi. I seriously doubt that such a ruckus would have been made by the Yamaha team and Rossi if they thought they were genuinely solely guilty of something.
Firstly Rossi had nothing to get over! He won that race by outracing a rider who was clearly faster.
For Stoner its not just Laguna but everything after it, as it is Stoner has yet to recover to compete at that level consistently since. This of course must take a large toll, especially after his, albeit forced by the media, vehement defense of his ability in 2007- only to not reproduce it since.
Hopefully for you guys this may be the case, and its not something worse, as is with delusional incidents like the towing thing (which I note being brushed aside
Austin
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Hopefully for you guys this may be the case, and its not something worse, as is with delusional incidents like the towing thing (which I note being brushed aside) it could be a precursor to more serious problems for him in the mind.......As it stands currently Rossi is back at the sharp end again in tricky conditions in morning warm-up, something which even Rossi fans including myself, didn't really expect so soon after the pre-season......must be hard when someone else is riding the bike, very well, that only 'you' could ride.......Rossi also knows how this feels.
Maybe I'll eat crow later today, but I think you've gotten ahead of yourself in saying that Rossi is at the sharp end and riding very well. Conditions were mixed, have been all weekend. When Capirossi and Edwards are leading sessions, you can write them off as useless. Unless you think Edwards is going to run away from Valentino by a second a lap this afternoon.
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Stop dodging and weaving Mick
Explain the invented towing crap, explain how Rossi could have possibly benefited from being so far behind Stoner? At least if Stoner is going to continue to stir the pot about Jerez make it relevant and not delusional. This was a ....... act.
Yes Rossi was pissed with Elias but not for a month. Yes Rossi engaged in feuds with Biaggi and Gibernau, and won the battles, Biaggi deliberately tried to run Rossi off track which started that, hardly an accident and none of it invented! Gibernau's team was responsible for a very harsh penalty against Rossi, for something that most teams did, which cost Rossi a race he would have probably won in 2004-and it was no accident.
This History makes Stoner's behavior even less acceptable and more ridiculous! Creating false accusations against Rossi isn't really going to do much for Stoner now is it, Casey hasn't proven to be too good at the mind games, and this just confirms his very fragile mental state.
But continue to enlighten us on how its ok for Stoner to carry on inventing incidents like this.
Jorge wouldn't have liked it too much either, but I seriously doubt he would have acted like Stoner currently is. Kropo has a good article on this, Rossi and Stoner have history, most of it bad, Stoner hasn't gotten over Laguna 2008 and 2008-09 in general. He spent most of his time defending himself in 2007, only to fail ever since. It is yet to be seen whether or not he will factor this year, I have my doubts now.
You really can't resist the straw man approach, can you?
Of what am I falsely accusing rossi? He carried on feuds with biaggi and gibernau which lasted for years, which you are justifying on the basis of incidents which did not cost him anything like 30 points in what were not tight title races in any case ; they potentially affected title bids of rossi's rather than entirely in actuality affecting one of stoner's, so I guess that is different. How does the biaggi incident differ from laguna seca 2008 (other than your imputation of motive) which btw is being brought up by valentino and by you rather than by stoner or me, particularly now that rossi has successfully completed a torpedo on stoner which max never did to rossi? The elias incident obviously still rankles with valentino as well, since he recently mentioned it, not that this is unreasonable, and I ask again are you suggesting that better should not be expected of valentino than elias the well known torpedo artist?
Perhaps I should re-evaluate my opinion of your bias, since you obviously rate stoner more highly than I do; I have never said that stoner is better than rossi, but you must think he is, since you have allotted valentino 6 months or more to "fix" the ducati, but apparently consider stoner to be under-performing by being marginally slower in practice at estoril than lorenzo or pedrosa on a track favoured by both on his first time there with a completely new bike.
I will put 2 smilies this time since you ignored the single one previously, but rossi was about as far behind stoner as when he made his move at jerez, which may have been stoner's point
If he uses rossi's attitude towards biaggi and gibernau as a guideline I can't see why stoner shouldn't stay annoyed with rossi for much longer than 4 weeks if he so chooses, but due to strange circumstances this race as well as being 4 weeks after the jerez incident is also the next race after that incident .
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I do not think that Rossi's success is solely due to his talent at riding or at setting up a motorcycle. Do I think Rossi would have had success if the sport did not assist him significantly? Yes. I think Rossi is a great rider and I always had respect for him. I have less respect these days because of 2 reasons: his extreme fans and his spoilt brat manipulations. But I digress.
I guess my comment was more heavily weighted to degree of difficulty to get where they are today. Rossi being Italian has been able to slide into 125, 250 and MotoGP quite easily. Sponsorship would have always been easy even before he was the personality because he is Italian and would have been the same if he was Spanish. Doohan and now Stoner have never had it gifted to them as easy. I am sure you know the Stoner story and I am sure you know that the field in all 3 classes is predominately from these 2 nations.
Doohan fought for and earned his place and continued to do it. Stoner has done the same thing. There has never been ANY political clout or manipulations that have helped Stoner even the tiniest of bits. Today there is still none. He is in a team with a Spanish sponsorship and the Spanish golden child. He has to earn every bit of assistance he gets. When he was at Ducati they took him reluctantly to begin with and even whilst he was winning were still trying to find someone who could beat him and would do everything to try and make the other rider succeed yet Stoner could never get the bike developed in the direction he wanted. Doohan would know this and now he sees that Ducati are prepared to do what ever Rossi wants to develop the bike. Doohan likewise was in a team that did everything to favour the Spanish team mate etc so I just feel that yes there is more to tie Doohan to Stoner than Doohan to Rossi.
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I agree with you. But still, even though Doohan has no loyalty with Rossi I can't see why he would choose to start slagging (from behind the scene) someone with whom he doesn't have a grudge with?
Austin
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He got picked up Alberto Puig. Not sure how much he did for Stoner, but knowing Puig, he probably helped Stoner into the upper levels of CEV or helped push through Stoner's move to 125s. I don't know for sure, just making a guess with Puig's mentality in mind.
Austin
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