Estoril 2012: RACE

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It's hard to argure that after Laguna 08, Rossi had not gotten into Casey's head. That was the moment he turned his season around, and Stoner started to make unforced errors. Fact. Yes, we all know now that Stoner was doing a ....... awesome job on the Ducati, (I hate saying that, not because of disrespect for Stoner but because a number of PS users get a semi when they read those words) but at that point, Rossi had him beaten. Just for the rcord, Rossi won the title that year, so to clarify that, yes, he beat him.

I don't see how rossi or probably anyone else could have ridden better in 2008 than he did, and I think his championship was substantially attributable to that.



I thought at the time stoner's crashes in the 2 races after laguna seca 2008 could reasonably be attributed to pressure, although stoner claimed that the bike had given way for no apparent reason, not inconsistent with claims by him and other ducati riders including rossi in later years, although thus did not seem to recur in the rest of 2008 or 2009. You find problems with the semantic abilities of some, but you should also remember that mathematics came into it in 2008. Someone (not me) said after laguna seca and before the crashes in the 2 subsequent races that stoner's chance was basically gone after laguna seca. If you recall dani and jorge were both either banged up or absent, and hence rossi was likely to come second in any race stoner managed to win (he in fact managed 1st or second in every remaining race except for the one where he had the practice crash and finished 3rd). Stoner hence with a 25 point deficit needed to win 5 of 7 races in which case he would have finished equal in points and won on the basis of more wins, If crumbling to pressure cost him the championship it was putting it in the sand at laguna seca.



What was inconsistent and unjust imo was attribution of stoner's scaphoid injury to imagination and invention and similarly his 2009 illness, by the same people quick to (correctly) point out that rossi's 2010 season was heavily affected by injury.
 
I watched the whole race and I remember what happened to him on the first lap. But I think there is something about his riding style this year, Something is not letting him push the bike harder, I don't know if its the 4kg weight increase or not having rear grip or something
<
. Was it always hard to find a good setup for this guy??



They didn't seem to last year,

but it the new bike so maybe they just have not got fine tweeks quite right yet.

Who knows? Could be his size, the extra weight, or just a mistake on the first lap.

I expected him to be mixing it or at least closer to Stoner and Lorenzo TBH.
 
I thought that was the plan and I was kind of with it, but what I and I think lex was saying is that the CRTs seem to be in limbo at the moment. Were dorna ever serious about ditching the manufacturers and going wholly CRT? Have they just used them as a bargaining chip to be abandoned if they can bring the manufacturers to heel sufficiently?. There doesn't to me look to be a very clear direction at the moment, particularly I would have thought if you are a CRT team.



I don't think Dorna were ever in a position to dump the manufacturers. The MSMA contract has run out and it seems that Dorna are in no hurry to re-sign it. They don't want them to go, they just want a more level playing field.



Look at it from Dorna's perspective - they are an entertainment marketing company - one of their products is MotoGP. As of the last few years, their product was at threat from a couple of their suppliers - making it so expensive that fewer and fewer people could join the show. So they changed the ground rules to entice more suppliers and more competitors and, hopefully continue increasing their market share of global sports entertainment dollars.



By doing so they showed the two main suppliers that they could do it without them, so they better come to the party regarding price.



We also need to remain aware of Dorna's contract with the FIM - if they have less than 17 riders on the grid, consistently, they would lose their franchise. They came very close to that last year. They have been propping up the series for years by shovelling money at the likes of LCR, Gresini, Aspar, Rizla to ensure that they met their obligations. A resurgent MotoGP that is attractive to smaller teams is just what they want, from an insurance and a purely money-saving perspective.



CRT is working just fine for Ezpeleta. There isn't a lot of anti-noise in the serious motorsport press. Most of the big players are allowing it time to settle in.



I don't see that the CRTs are in limbo - they are getting on, doing their thing. I don't think anyone ever promised them that the MSMA was going to up-stakes and leave.



They have a fuel advantage, eased testing rules, better tyres, a weight raise - going up again next year - along with (potentially) curbed ECUs, and Ezpeleta hasn't ruled out giving them more advantages to make them competitive.



I think they are in pig heaven! It's all going their way, except the lap times, but early days... Aprilia will get serious when there is some serious competition and prizes. At the moment, the best they get is a place on the catwalk, not even on the podium. Early days... let's see how things pan out before consiging CRTs to the bin.
 
It's hard to argure that after Laguna 08, Rossi had not gotten into Casey's head. That was the moment he turned his season around, and Stoner started to make unforced errors. Fact. Yes, we all know now that Stoner was doing a ....... awesome job on the Ducati, (I hate saying that, not because of disrespect for Stoner but because a number of PS users get a semi when they read those words) but at that point, Rossi had him beaten. Just for the rcord, Rossi won the title that year, so to clarify that, yes, he beat him.



One of those things on which we can only agree to disagree.



My take: Stoner had health problems, Bridgestones no longer tailored to the Ducati, the wanky Ducati itself which had (as Rossi found later) a nasty habit of letting go with no warning.



Your take: Stoner was "mentally broken" after Rossi lost control of his bike and largely through sheer luck and forward momentum managed to not take them both out in the corkscrew.
 
Holy .... I said Jorge needs to attack, and find a ..... in Stoners armour. Is that too hard to understand?



How bout I just write "Stoner is awesome" as thats all you want to read.



If you can't understand the words I wrote thats your problem, I'm here to talk motorcycle racing, not teach basic English comprehension.

Are these your words

it's not the same as Rossi or indeed Super Sic if he was still with us, who will put the bike anywhere there is daylight for the pass.



If thats not implying that Rossi would have had a go, what is it. Your message is pretty clear. If you meant to say "in his day" say it.
 
Are these your words

it's not the same as Rossi or indeed Super Sic if he was still with us, who will put the bike anywhere there is daylight for the pass.



If thats not implying that Rossi would have had a go, what is it. Your message is pretty clear. If you meant to say "in his day" say it.



I'm talking about the style of a rider, if Rossi, Scud, Cal or indeed a hell of a lot of riders out there see a gap they go for it, I'm not saying he's going to do it next week.



OK I will just say Super Speed King Stoner is untouchable, nobody has ever beaten him in a race or ever will.



Happy now?
 
One of those things on which we can only agree to disagree.



My take: Stoner had health problems, Bridgestones no longer tailored to the Ducati, the wanky Ducati itself which had (as Rossi found later) a nasty habit of letting go with no warning.



Your take: Stoner was "mentally broken" after Rossi lost control of his bike and largely through sheer luck and forward momentum managed to not take them both out in the corkscrew.



OK, we agree to disagree, fair enough
 



That was the plan in 2009, when Ezpeleta said the GPC were working on new rules to create cheap grid fillers. In 2010, production race-only motorcycles (CRT) became the morally correct way to manage GP competition, according to Ippolito, b/c production-only racers are traditional. In 2011, CRT had become a bargaining chip to force the manufacturers to make certain changes. Late in 2011, CRT developed into the new MotoGP formula, and Dorna began working on rebranding and redifining the CRT nomenclature. Now, CRTs are cheap, inconsequential grid fillers again. In the future, we hear that Dorna are working to reduce satellite lease to 1M euros, and attract new manufacturers, which would essentially kill off the CRT concept, and any big-picture planning between Dorna and the FIM. Yet, Dorna are simulataneously negotaiting for the lowest rev limit possible to make production engines more competitive. I think the low rev limit is actually an attempt to convert GP from fuel-limited to rev-limited competition, but production engines aren't much leverage, if Dorna are simultaneously working to get rid of the CRTs.



If someone isn't confused, I have to wonder how closely they are paying attention.



Imo, the only thing we can say for certain is that CRT is a manifestation of various demands within the GPC that have gone unsatisfied for many years. Naturally, those demands change every 5 minutes, and major players are content to abandon CRT if the MSMA provide them with something better. Dorna and IRTA have become dependent on the MSMA over the years, and their behavioral patterns mimic the actions of an angry consumer. Regardless of the contractual arrangements, the sociology suggests the MSMA will always call the shots.
 
I'm talking about the style of a rider, if Rossi, Scud, Cal or indeed a hell of a lot of riders out there see a gap they go for it, I'm not saying he's going to do it next week.



OK I will just say Super Speed King Stoner is untouchable, nobody has ever beaten him in a race or ever will.



Happy now?

This place has really gone to .... i see. Trying to read through the threads is like sticking pins in your eyes mate. Oh well all good things must come to an end i suppose.



All hail Stoner. The end.
 
This place has really gone to .... i see. Trying to read through the threads is like sticking pins in your eyes mate. Oh well all good things must come to an end i suppose.



All hail Stoner. The end.



If you had resisted religious fanaticism to begin with, you wouldn't be experiencing such withdrawal.
 
I'm talking about the style of a rider, if Rossi, Scud, Cal or indeed a hell of a lot of riders out there see a gap they go for it, I'm not saying he's going to do it next week.



OK I will just say Super Speed King Stoner is untouchable, nobody has ever beaten him in a race or ever will.



Happy now?

You like to exaggerate dont you?
 
This place has really gone to .... i see. Trying to read through the threads is like sticking pins in your eyes mate. Oh well all good things must come to an end i suppose.



All hail Stoner. The end.



Don't be so glum chum. True, it's sad times in Bopperville - but you can stick around and root for Cal. He's pretty nifty.
 
If you had resisted religious fanaticism to begin with, you wouldn't be experiencing such withdrawal.



Jum and I chipped in to get one of those cult de-programmers to look in on Rog

but she caught sight of Rog in a hair shirt and high-tailed it.
 
Don't be so glum chum. True, it's sad times in Bopperville - but you can stick around and root for Cal. He's pretty nifty.

It's not who i root for that causes the pain. It makes no difference at all. Are you not sickened by the Wayne Rainey comment? guess it passed most by due to the stoner love content in the same post. Rossi boppers had a laugh in poking fun, Stoner neo boppers are a nasty spiteful bread of very inept individuals.
 
I'm talking about the style of a rider, if Rossi, Scud, Cal or indeed a hell of a lot of riders out there see a gap they go for it, I'm not saying he's going to do it next week.

OK I will just say Super Speed King Stoner is untouchable, nobody has ever beaten him in a race or ever will. Happy now?





Pete, if this was in CAPS I woudl have thought Scotty had hacked into your account
<
 
It's not who i root for that causes the pain. It makes no difference at all. Are you not sickened by the Wayne Rainey comment? guess it passed most by due to the stoner love content in the same post. Rossi boppers had a laugh in poking fun, Stoner neo boppers are a nasty spiteful bread of very inept individuals.

You have picked a poster who is routinely ignored by everyone, which is why no comment was made, except the appropriate one by MT who has only been posting for a few days.



Otherwise this forum and others does represent that anti-rossi/pro-stoner stuff can be just as silly and incorrect as anti-stoner/pro-rossi stuff. I would give you perhaps even less humorous by and large. Not more nasty and spiteful though.
 

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