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Espargaro to Yamaha?

Dr No
3502421367573277

Jumkie,

good points there. but look at at it this way. I went to Sepang last year. Sunday tickets were sold out on Saturday midday. Full. Lucky for us some French dude dropped us paddock passes (Sepang paddock is ....). Compared to my last visits in 06 and 10, when you could stroll in...

That market comes under Asia, not Oceania but compared to the static crowds numbers at PI and the declining market here. I know where I would spend my cash as a manufacturer. Prime time TV has Jorge adverts for whatever crappy 125 they sell in that market.


 


The figures given were for bikes made in Japan, not for Japanese bikes. JAMA made more than 1.8M bikes last year. How many were sold in the US?


 


The biggest motorcycle factory Yamaha has is in Jakarta - potential production over 1M units a year.


 


Suzuki has one in India - can produce around 600,000 units a year.


 


Honda has one in Malaysia that puts together local market bikes, but makes more than a million engines a year for other assembly plants.


 


Jorge and Vale are HUGE in  Asia, absolutely huge. Every second little 125 is painted in 46 or FIAT or Yamaha factory livery, as well as Repsol and Marlboro.
 
Yup. Like I wrote, prime-time adverts featuring JL wheelying through the city... and the promoters of this sport can only think of Yoo-rope. This is chasing growth?

06 had glorified postie bikes as support races at Sepang...last year the infield disgraced national Oz rounds with their entries. and more impressively whole families staying to watch.
 
The 'glorified postie bike' is the All Asian 150cc Road Racing championship. Yamaha is the bike to have for every kid and tween in SE Asia. Honda is there, but no-one can afford them, but that doesn't stop them rebadging their Chinese clone in HRC/Repsol livery :)


 


Kawasaki are trying hard to corner the market with cheap, fast bikes.


 


I've got one. They're a lot of fun. I don't know what the licensing is like, I don't know that many in Malaysia have one... they are a menace when they 'pack up' - we have been dodging upwards of 50 or more in a pack sometimes - on narrow, rural roads with potholes, water buffalo and slow buses.


 


Compared to the likes of the CBR150, these things are cheap, tough and reliable. We are also getting lots of hot-up parts, courtesy of the AARRC. My dealer was trying to tell me I needed a new cam and exhaust. I have a ton of shocks, carbs, jets, manfolds, filters and stuff from when the boy and I did scooter racing in the UK, and I pay good money for good tyres, so mine actually goes pretty well compared to the local hot-shots. A common mod is a car-type exhaust and open trumpet with a stone guard. That's the level of tech I am chasing ;) At 6' and over 12 stone I need every advantage I can get... what do you know about turbochargers???
 
BJ.C
3505011367679364

The 'glorified postie bike' is the All Asian 150cc Road Racing championship. Yamaha is the bike to have for every kid and tween in SE Asia. Honda is there, but no-one can afford them, but that doesn't stop them rebadging their Chinese clone in HRC/Repsol livery :)


 


Kawasaki are trying hard to corner the market with cheap, fast bikes.


 


I've got one. They're a lot of fun. I don't know what the licensing is like, I don't know that many in Malaysia have one... they are a menace when they 'pack up' - we have been dodging upwards of 50 or more in a pack sometimes - on narrow, rural roads with potholes, water buffalo and slow buses.


 


Compared to the likes of the CBR150, these things are cheap, tough and reliable. We are also getting lots of hot-up parts, courtesy of the AARRC. My dealer was trying to tell me I needed a new cam and exhaust. I have a ton of shocks, carbs, jets, manfolds, filters and stuff from when the boy and I did scooter racing in the UK, and I pay good money for good tyres, so mine actually goes pretty well compared to the local hot-shots. A common mod is a car-type exhaust and open trumpet with a stone guard. That's the level of tech I am chasing ;) At 6' and over 12 stone I need every advantage I can get... what do you know about turbochargers???


 


Any pictures of these things?
 
BJ.C
3505011367679364

The 'glorified postie bike' is the All Asian 150cc Road Racing championship. Yamaha is the bike to have for every kid and tween in SE Asia. Honda is there, but no-one can afford them, but that doesn't stop them rebadging their Chinese clone in HRC/Repsol livery :)


 


Kawasaki are trying hard to corner the market with cheap, fast bikes.


 


I've got one. They're a lot of fun. I don't know what the licensing is like, I don't know that many in Malaysia have one... they are a menace when they 'pack up' - we have been dodging upwards of 50 or more in a pack sometimes - on narrow, rural roads with potholes, water buffalo and slow buses.


 


Compared to the likes of the CBR150, these things are cheap, tough and reliable. We are also getting lots of hot-up parts, courtesy of the AARRC. My dealer was trying to tell me I needed a new cam and exhaust. I have a ton of shocks, carbs, jets, manfolds, filters and stuff from when the boy and I did scooter racing in the UK, and I pay good money for good tyres, so mine actually goes pretty well compared to the local hot-shots. A common mod is a car-type exhaust and open trumpet with a stone guard. That's the level of tech I am chasing ;) At 6' and over 12 stone I need every advantage I can get... what do you know about turbochargers???


Between you and Zoots you own a lot of toys, you are a lucky pair.
 
Jumkie
3503231367606415

Excellent response Austin. Agree man. I can even add to what you said about our anemic promoting of US riders, as I have personal experience trying to get businesses with significant marketing budgets to give a rats ... about kids ready to eat their own guts to succeed in the sport. Errr!

 


 

Agree good sir.  That does seem to be where the future of potential sales is expanding.  Certainly, there has been a decline US (but as you can see from the graph, its still considerable, where a "decline" in the US only means its still consuming head and shoulders more than entire global regions).  I was actually up late last night (as you could probably tell, haha) and found some great info about sales and market trends.  Looks like China is the place to sell (I know, not news).  Maybe the Dorna guys are lagging behind by a few years?...given there is no GPs in China (currently).  Or they are still tying to cash in on the willingness of US peeps to go into debt to buy toys.  In one report I read that sportbike sales had declined for everybody except BMW & Duc (or the non-Japanese manufactures).  Doc, I think it was you who posted this old article from a magazine (right?)  That prompted me to look around for old magazines, I found a few but (and I really don't even want to type this, but somebody who will remain nameless, on a fateful spring cleaning day, threw out a bunch of old mags I had in a dusty box in the attic (I .... you not, I almost cried).  I would just as soon preferred losing mu wedding pics to a fire.  Anyway, I recall reading about a few hard-..... back in the day. Forgive me if I insult your knowledge of Oz history, but have you heard of a dude named Kevin Caruthers? Americans who know their .... about racing history love this dude (or should love him).  This name stands out because it was a name that appears again and again in the mags from back in the day (yes, way before my time, but when I was 18, I went crazy about motorcycles, and being from the US, there was NOTHING to watch only read).  So...the names that fascinated me came from two countries: US and Australia.  Anyway, this cat Caruthers came to the US to mentor a few Americans, perhaps you might recognize  these names: Kenny Roberts Sr. & Eddie Lawson.  So, I have always had a soft spot for Aussies (sorry my Brit brothers, hehe).  And more to the point that I will make below to Stiefel..

 


 

 

You make many good points.  First, my anti-Ameri thingy was two fold, one was directed at my puppet BJC, so you can ignore that one.  My other point about the Dorna HQ Madrid (next door to Repsol HQ Madrid) favoring Spanish riders was more about 'anti-non-Euros' rather than anti-US riders'.  Because, as I was telling DocN above, I'd lump Aussies as marginalized as well.  Stief, I've never asked, but are you German? Not that it matters, but you are correct in that Americans shouldn't be complaining about representation in MotoGP...perhaps.  We sure have had our run of chaps since the 2000s, KRjr, Edwards, Hopper, Hayden, Spies, and Bostrom (haha, I just added Bostrom to .... with JK).  Ok, so you are right, we shouldnt complain..right?  Except, let me just say a couple of things in my defense of whining.  All those riders were given a turn at the big dance after accomplishing something significant outside of GP itself (what I mean by significant is at least a big boy category title in respective series, maybe with exception of Hopper, though in his defense he was an AMA Formula Extreme champ, which was a badass spec of racing, at some rediculious age like 16+, AND that only earned him an opportunity to ride one of the shittiest machines at the wrong time during a formula transition, a Red Bull 500cc (hangover, as the forumla was going to 2-stroke) that was ejecting him and Gary McCoy into oblivion...for ..... and giggles look back to see the injuries that ride produced, while today we see them getting on premiere class machines and ride away like the wind, thank you electogizmos). So for Americans to EARN an opportunity in GP, they need to come with serious credentials.  I'd say its very similar with Aussies (as both of us are a continent apart and rather un-rated in Europe) and have to really go far beyond to impress somebody willing ti give these gritty kids a chance. (Btw, while I'm on a rant, this also applies to Brits to a less extent, see my rant about Brit riders I wrote to Austin).   I mentioned Kevin Caruthers to Doc No above, I really do wonder how many people ever heard of him, even though he was a major figure in the sport.  Most of us have heard of names like: Doohan, Garner, Bayliss , Beatie, and my personal fav, McCoy (btw, Mat Mladin could have been among the great Aussies but he really was a sell-out for the money.  I'll never forget he once said, 'why would I got race in Europe if they are paying me $50,000 a race in the US?).  Oh and Vermulen (nice guy award). Sorry, tangent, ok, now contrast this with the new Spanish stacking of the field, who are promoted into the GP lower categories via a mini-bike titles, participation (not actually winning it) in the Red Bull rookies cup, and of course CEV.  Then...we start to become familiar with these names and become conditioned to think these must be the best riders in the world deserving of MotoGP seat, ie Espargaros.  Without looking it up, can you tell me how many races A. Espargaro has won? (I had to look it up too, but cause I thought, surely he's won something, I mean, people are mentioning his name to replace 'World Champions' because his name 'appears' often (yes, that seems to be enough).  But what has he won?  As you know Stief, this is the most annoying thing for me regarding people’s takes.  Somehow because this guy leads this ........ CRTs (which we have NO reasonable way of knowing the real parity between these entries) we think hes done something because his bike keeps appearing in Parc Ferme like two dicks on a bike.  We automatically think, oh, Alexis Espargaro is top of the CRTs, therefore, he must be the best of that class. Not knowing if say the Forward Racing machines or (take your pick) are the DucatiGP versions of CRTs.  I met this kid Yonny Hernandez (Columbian) at the airport in Austin (who has a smoking hot girlfriend, but I know you are not interested in that sort of thing).  Anyway, Hernandez “podiumed” in the CRT class at COTA (yes, he was the third CRT finisher).  Maybe we should start linking him to factory satellite seats now that Silly Season has already started.  Why not, right? 

 

Am I making my point?  The Spanish stack the field with their riders, good, decent, and ........ riders, get on the best bikes, don’t really accomplish anything ‘really’ significant (sorry Alberto Puig) and their records then start to be ‘artificially’ padded by virtue of the lacking parity structure, their names get tossed around, and bam, welcome to MotoGP your factory ride awaits you sir.  (I’m aware my friends will call “conspiracy-tin hat” monger on me, and they would be partially correct, as I really do have such a disposition.  Its all good.


 


I assume you mean Kelvin Carruthers - known then as "Kel". When I first got hooked on racing, his name was synonymous with Kenny Roberts, the way Erv Kanemoto would be with Freddie Spencer; same as Burgess has been with Rossi.
 
BJ.C
3505011367679364

The 'glorified postie bike' is the All Asian 150cc Road Racing championship. Yamaha is the bike to have for every kid and tween in SE Asia. Honda is there, but no-one can afford them, but that doesn't stop them rebadging their Chinese clone in HRC/Repsol livery :)

 

Kawasaki are trying hard to corner the market with cheap, fast bikes.

 

I've got one. They're a lot of fun. I don't know what the licensing is like, I don't know that many in Malaysia have one... they are a menace when they 'pack up' - we have been dodging upwards of 50 or more in a pack sometimes - on narrow, rural roads with potholes, water buffalo and slow buses.

 

Compared to the likes of the CBR150, these things are cheap, tough and reliable. We are also getting lots of hot-up parts, courtesy of the AARRC. My dealer was trying to tell me I needed a new cam and exhaust. I have a ton of shocks, carbs, jets, manfolds, filters and stuff from when the boy and I did scooter racing in the UK, and I pay good money for good tyres, so mine actually goes pretty well compared to the local hot-shots. A common mod is a car-type exhaust and open trumpet with a stone guard. That's the level of tech I am chasing ;) At 6' and over 12 stone I need every advantage I can get... what do you know about turbochargers???


I didn't intend that to be dismissive of the postie bikes, rather it was to show how circumstances have changed ( but then you'd be aware of those changes)

I love those tricked out step throughs. Convinced a guy on Penang to rent me his Kwaka 150 instead of a 110 4 stroke Honda. Great fun. Wanted to bring one here as a commuter.
 
Exceptionally good posts on this thread, that one of Jumks was so good I read ALL of it. 


 


There is a point that crosses threads very quickly to the Dani thread, and the way these Spanish kids are coming through. Truth is we have a couple of Aussie kids in the KTM rookies (Red Bull rookies) and so on and so forth. 


 


So do the Americans. 


 


But the Anglo kids ride with a gun in their back, perform or else, no one will get as many years of buffering (inter alio Dani Pedrosa) as a Spanish rider, it is just easier. 


 


Also, none of the junior classes in 'Merica or Australia is a "stepping stone" into the major league. That belongs to the Spanish. That is why Stoner raced the British and Spanish national 125 championships at once. 


 


The British for the passport and the Spanish for the important passport into racing. 


 


I even feel in the whispers of the trees the backing away from the former Italian interest of the Spanish company. 
 
Andy Roo
3505481367739800

Exceptionally good posts on this thread, that one of Jumks was so good I read ALL of it. 

 

There is a point that crosses threads very quickly to the Dani thread, and the way these Spanish kids are coming through. Truth is we have a couple of Aussie kids in the KTM rookies (Red Bull rookies) and so on and so forth. 

 

So do the Americans. 

 

But the Anglo kids ride with a gun in their back, perform or else, no one will get as many years of buffering (inter alio Dani Pedrosa) as a Spanish rider, it is just easier. 

 

Also, none of the junior classes in 'Merica or Australia is a "stepping stone" into the major league. That belongs to the Spanish. That is why Stoner raced the British and Spanish national 125 championships at once. 

 

The British for the passport and the Spanish for the important passport into racing. 

 

I even feel in the whispers of the trees the backing away from the former Italian interest of the Spanish company. 


At PI '11, a mate and I had an audience with G Sacchi about bringing in his Came Moto3 for local racing. Stupid money for what turned out to be a pile of ..... Dodged that bullet, but MA still has no solution.

The entry level 125s got stupidly expensive in the early 2000s. 16 year olds turning up with $20 K chassis. Money race, even at that lowly level.
 
stiefel
3505521367743360

Just came across this post. Great link. Very recognizable for a euro like me, and a must read for 'mericans.


God bless America :shout:
 
thedeal
3505141367683580

Between you and Zoots you own a lot of toys, you are a lucky pair.


 


He doesn't own a bike, as far as I know. He had an old Suzuki but sold it.
 
bluegreen
3505131367682080

Any pictures of these things?


 


15-mohd-affendi-rosli-motor-rider-s51.jpg
 
Dr No
3505441367733346

I didn't intend that to be dismissive of the postie bikes, rather it was to show how circumstances have changed ( but then you'd be aware of those changes)

I love those tricked out step throughs. Convinced a guy on Penang to rent me his Kwaka 150 instead of a 110 4 stroke Honda. Great fun. Wanted to bring one here as a commuter.


 


I didn't think you were, just some background :)


 


I'll take a pic of mine tomorrow if I can find a memory card - mine are all stuck in tiny little unix boxes at the moment... but I'm sure I can dig one out somewhere - or it will be a crappy phone pic.
 
I love going to a buddy of mine in BKK. A couple of sois away from his place kids scooter race almost daily on a .5km track. Smiles, smoke and chaos!!
 
BJ.C
3505771367752520

 

I didn't think you were, just some background :)

 

I'll take a pic of mine tomorrow if I can find a memory card - mine are all stuck in tiny little unix boxes at the moment... but I'm sure I can dig one out somewhere - or it will be a crappy phone pic.


Would love to see the photos. The guy rented me his own bike...caught me trying to wheelie it in the cable-car car park and locking up the rear ( Barry style) to park it at the guesthouse. Took it off me...30 ringgit well spent.
 
Riding in Penang is mental. Ill keep my eye out for when the next race meeting is on and go take some pics (and maybe some video too).


 


The local's really tart their bikes up. Mine's a total ....... in the looks department, runs OK though.
 
Dr No
3505591367747026

At PI '11, a mate and I had an audience with G Sacchi about bringing in his Came Moto3 for local racing. Stupid money for what turned out to be a pile of ..... Dodged that bullet, but MA still has no solution.

The entry level 125s got stupidly expensive in the early 2000s. 16 year olds turning up with $20 K chassis. Money race, even at that lowly level.


 


 


Australia is a country full of money but devoid of sponsors. Road racing here is proddie SBK and that's it. As soon as you turn away from the factory for a chassis forget it. Personally I think KTM would make a motza selling a basic 250cc 4 banger GP junior (they probably already do). 


 


When we have had the "make it the same all over the place" conversations (debates? - they tend to be congenial) the solutions always sound good for the sport. 


 


But what would a bunch of aging ....... and cripples know anyway?
 

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