Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
L8Braker
I thought that's exactly how he got it? His competition knocked chunks off each other leaving him the lowest-scoring champion in about 30 years
(Don't take it to heart, of course he can ride - just not as well as some others and not on a top-spec bike. Besides, it never hurts to remind the NHMBLA that he's done and dusted in this sport.)
<span style="color:#d3d3d3;<span style="font-size:10px;Nicky Hayden Monkey Boy Love Alliance
I thought that's exactly how he got it? His competition knocked chunks off each other leaving him the lowest-scoring champion in about 30 years
(Don't take it to heart, of course he can ride - just not as well as some others and not on a top-spec bike. Besides, it never hurts to remind the NHMBLA that he's done and dusted in this sport.)
<span style="color:#d3d3d3;<span style="font-size:10px;Nicky Hayden Monkey Boy Love Alliance
Keshav
A: Don't go bringing nationalism and patriotism into what was clearly a windup to a completely clueless poster. But... don't over-estimate your worth to Dorna as a cash cow. Your broadcasters don't pay .... - that's why Speed don't give a .... and your coverage is so awful. Don't you think if the US had paid twenty million or so for the rights that they would make an effort to recoup that expenditure? The reason coverage is dire is because they got it for peanuts. That's the way broadcasters work. The sheer size of your population doesn't matter when most of them know nothing of the sport and don't watch it. The biggest markets for Dorna are Spain, France, Germany, UK, Italy, Japan and now, India, SE Asia (in general... a big market) The total profit for Dorna in 2010 was around 5.5M Euros on 250M Euros in revenue, that has ramped up in the last couple of years by 12% but none of that came from the US. If MotoGP was really going to take hold in the US, it would have done so in the 'golden years' of Rainey, Schwantz, Roberts and certainly with your latest champion, Hayden - but it didn't. After the initial numbers were up for Indy and Laguna, post-Hayden, they have been dropping and maybe numbers are up on TV, but only marginally as people that might have ventured to a track save money and watch it from the Barcalounger. Mainstream coverage has been tried on the major networks before and been found to be wanting. Fox now has a multi-year deal, but that isn't so much because they are big fans of bike racing, but because they needed to fill the gaps in their new Fox Sports channel. They can now advertise that they have everything major in the world - but what happens when F1 or Nascar or Indy clashes with MotoGP? We get Fox Sports here now (used to be ESPN but got rebranded this year) and if there is ever a conflict, MotoGP disappears to be shown at 3am on a tuesday. FIC (Fox International Channels) says ESPN was in 100M homes in Asia and they haven't even begun a push into China yet - but are planning it for 2015. There are 3.000 TV stations and more than half a billion sets in China right now. So just how much of a market is the US? It's a potential market - but potential doesn't put potatoes on the table... you can be in 100M homes, but if only .05% of viewers are watching, you may as well be showing clouds.
2: I've been to a few tracks over the years, but nothing more recent than 2001 - I refuse to transit the US after the imposition of the 'treat-em-like-a-criminal-lock-em-up-in-holding' TSA gestapo took over as the external face of your country. I don't need the extra 10kgs baggage allowance as much as I want to withhold the ten-to-thirty thousand dollars I spend in travel each year to make a point. Your tracks are either pretty and unsafe or safe and look like an abandoned airfield and are in the middle of nowhere with nothing but sand and snakes all around The facilities for bike racing at most of your tracks is lamented by your own motorcycle racing associations, so don't piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining - ask the guys that put it on the line what your tracks are like. How many great tracks are there in the UK? I suggest you watch BSB -and they don't even go to all the tracks that would qualify - there are a lot. Not that I know why you brought the UK into an argument with an Aussie about the dire state of GP racing in the US but then I have never found logic to be something best brought to a discussion with Americans (including USA'ers).
Here, this might be a good time to let you into a secret: http://bananenplanet.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/10-things-most-americans-dont-know-about-america/
A: Don't go bringing nationalism and patriotism into what was clearly a windup to a completely clueless poster. But... don't over-estimate your worth to Dorna as a cash cow. Your broadcasters don't pay .... - that's why Speed don't give a .... and your coverage is so awful. Don't you think if the US had paid twenty million or so for the rights that they would make an effort to recoup that expenditure? The reason coverage is dire is because they got it for peanuts. That's the way broadcasters work. The sheer size of your population doesn't matter when most of them know nothing of the sport and don't watch it. The biggest markets for Dorna are Spain, France, Germany, UK, Italy, Japan and now, India, SE Asia (in general... a big market) The total profit for Dorna in 2010 was around 5.5M Euros on 250M Euros in revenue, that has ramped up in the last couple of years by 12% but none of that came from the US. If MotoGP was really going to take hold in the US, it would have done so in the 'golden years' of Rainey, Schwantz, Roberts and certainly with your latest champion, Hayden - but it didn't. After the initial numbers were up for Indy and Laguna, post-Hayden, they have been dropping and maybe numbers are up on TV, but only marginally as people that might have ventured to a track save money and watch it from the Barcalounger. Mainstream coverage has been tried on the major networks before and been found to be wanting. Fox now has a multi-year deal, but that isn't so much because they are big fans of bike racing, but because they needed to fill the gaps in their new Fox Sports channel. They can now advertise that they have everything major in the world - but what happens when F1 or Nascar or Indy clashes with MotoGP? We get Fox Sports here now (used to be ESPN but got rebranded this year) and if there is ever a conflict, MotoGP disappears to be shown at 3am on a tuesday. FIC (Fox International Channels) says ESPN was in 100M homes in Asia and they haven't even begun a push into China yet - but are planning it for 2015. There are 3.000 TV stations and more than half a billion sets in China right now. So just how much of a market is the US? It's a potential market - but potential doesn't put potatoes on the table... you can be in 100M homes, but if only .05% of viewers are watching, you may as well be showing clouds.
2: I've been to a few tracks over the years, but nothing more recent than 2001 - I refuse to transit the US after the imposition of the 'treat-em-like-a-criminal-lock-em-up-in-holding' TSA gestapo took over as the external face of your country. I don't need the extra 10kgs baggage allowance as much as I want to withhold the ten-to-thirty thousand dollars I spend in travel each year to make a point. Your tracks are either pretty and unsafe or safe and look like an abandoned airfield and are in the middle of nowhere with nothing but sand and snakes all around
The facilities for bike racing at most of your tracks is lamented by your own motorcycle racing associations, so don't piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining - ask the guys that put it on the line what your tracks are like. How many great tracks are there in the UK? I suggest you watch BSB -and they don't even go to all the tracks that would qualify - there are a lot. Not that I know why you brought the UK into an argument with an Aussie about the dire state of GP racing in the US but then I have never found logic to be something best brought to a discussion with Americans (including USA'ers).Here, this might be a good time to let you into a secret: http://bananenplanet.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/10-things-most-americans-dont-know-about-america/
thedeal
I have never seen such a crowd of inbreds in one place as somewhere like The Forest of Dean or Peterborough or Coventry or Hull... .... me you all have the same ears and teeth - you are obviously into nailing your sisters and first cousins on a regular basis.
It's the dirty little secret of the UK - they think that there are all these little skanks putting out for all and sundry and then getting a council house to raise (or not) the little .......s, but it's not true. It's the government rules on marrying your direct family that is causing all these poor girls to have to live apart from their uncle/cousin/brother/father that makes it look a lot worse than it is.
These are loving family members that are forced by some antiquated religion-based law to live apart and raise their poor little children on their own (with the state's help, of course).
Get religion out of politics, I say. Let these families stay as a unit... the Pikies do it, the Royals do it, why not let the working man of Britain do what comes naturally and keep families strong.
You may need to invest in more dental schools, though
I have never seen such a crowd of inbreds in one place as somewhere like The Forest of Dean or Peterborough or Coventry or Hull... .... me you all have the same ears and teeth - you are obviously into nailing your sisters and first cousins on a regular basis.
It's the dirty little secret of the UK - they think that there are all these little skanks putting out for all and sundry and then getting a council house to raise (or not) the little .......s, but it's not true. It's the government rules on marrying your direct family that is causing all these poor girls to have to live apart from their uncle/cousin/brother/father that makes it look a lot worse than it is.
These are loving family members that are forced by some antiquated religion-based law to live apart and raise their poor little children on their own (with the state's help, of course).
Get religion out of politics, I say. Let these families stay as a unit... the Pikies do it, the Royals do it, why not let the working man of Britain do what comes naturally and keep families strong.
You may need to invest in more dental schools, though
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
thedeal
L8brake, was on stellar form sir. Thedeal, buddy, I know you tried to walked back your comment above: “Agreed, If the desmo is the result of Nicky's development skills he needs to stay where he is.” By saying later you were just ‘joking’ (make that two of us you fooled then), you were responding to Sloth27’s take (who’s intent was pretty clear, as disparaging of Nicky's development skill (what ever that means) and his ability to ride) well, saying it was some subtle satire was hardly convincing my friend. But hey, looks like you and L8 kissed and made up. So alls well that ends well, eh?
L8brake, was on stellar form sir. Thedeal, buddy, I know you tried to walked back your comment above: “Agreed, If the desmo is the result of Nicky's development skills he needs to stay where he is.” By saying later you were just ‘joking’ (make that two of us you fooled then), you were responding to Sloth27’s take (who’s intent was pretty clear, as disparaging of Nicky's development skill (what ever that means) and his ability to ride) well, saying it was some subtle satire was hardly convincing my friend. But hey, looks like you and L8 kissed and made up. So alls well that ends well, eh?
Seriuosly it was just a joke and L8 and i were only having the crack despite threats from the moderators
BJ.C
You will find it's very different down here at Sandbanks old boy.
3502071367542028
I have never seen such a crowd of inbreds in one place as somewhere like The Forest of Dean or Peterborough or Coventry or Hull... .... me you all have the same ears and teeth - you are obviously into nailing your sisters and first cousins on a regular basis.
It's the dirty little secret of the UK - they think that there are all these little skanks putting out for all and sundry and then getting a council house to raise (or not) the little .......s, but it's not true. It's the government rules on marrying your direct family that is causing all these poor girls to have to live apart from their uncle/cousin/brother/father that makes it look a lot worse than it is.
These are loving family members that are forced by some antiquated religion-based law to live apart and raise their poor little children on their own (with the state's help, of course).
Get religion out of politics, I say. Let these families stay as a unit... the Pikies do it, the Royals do it, why not let the working man of Britain do what comes naturally and keep families strong.
You may need to invest in more dental schools, though
You will find it's very different down here at Sandbanks old boy.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Austin
Austin my friend (and I know I'm gonna get a bit in trouble with Krops (though I know both you boys being good Christians will forgive me), we may just have to agree to disagree on this one, but, allow me to make a case (btw BJC made a similar case on another thread, but I didn’t respond to him because frankly I think hes an ....., not to mention a MigsAnal rehash of anti-American sentiment); nonetheless, I’m not buying there is NO favoritism in MotoGP-Dorna for Spanish riders (sorry for the double negative dude, must drive you crazy, hehe). I am not buying Spanish racers are the best skilled and or talented in the world. What exactly would lead us to believe this in the first place? Somehow I’m not convinced the CEV is the greatest league on the planet turning out great riders simply because they keep appearing in MotoGP. I would submit to you this IS by design. All the Spanish riders keep landing on the best teams and equipment (conspicuously with Reposl banners), then we are going to point out they have the best records? The lessons of ‘parity’ in GP should be plenty clear from the last two years ).
DORNA runs the CEV! (I would repeat this 10x). http://www.dorna.com/dorna_thecompany.html (And for others reading this, let me explain, the Spanish National racing series, that is, the Spanish counterparts to the UK’s BSB (that everybody has seen & heard of) or US’s AMA (that everybody has heard of and some seen), or Europe’s (let’s face it) WSBK/WSS (that everybody has heard of & seen), well… the CEV (known specifically as “CEV Repsol”, yup that’s right, its even their URL address cevrepsol.com) is RUN BY DORNA! Just out of curiosity, when was the last time anybody reading this saw a CEV Repsol race? That their subsidiary riders then appear in the next steps of the parent Company/League, run by the same people, should NOT lead one to conclude that these riders are the best by virtue of their participation in GP (especially given the nature of their participation is almost always on the best equipment). Friend, allow me to quote Dovi, ‘GP is not a meritocracy.’
As I see it, the sport has been HIGHJACKED! Nothing less. The CEV rightly would be ranked behind BSB, WSBK/WSS, and marginally lateral to the AMA (that’s only given the reality of the poor state our national series is in at the moment). YET, the overwhelming preponderance of riders “promoted” into the lower categories of MotoGP are from the Spanish ranks and NOT BSB, WSBK/WSS. When we do get somebody from these other series its big news. Meanwhile the numbers are made up by Spanish riders, a conveyor-belt steadily filling the top ranks of GP. How then we can conclude that there is no Spanish favoritism and rather they are promoted solely on merit, where riders who have ridden in other highly competitive series rarely make the cut, is unlikely at best! Frankly, I am reminded of an editorial I read many years ago by Jim Lampley (yes the boxing announcer) a piece titled “The Biggest Story of our Lives.” In it he describes the highly unlikely probabilities that lead one to the unmistakable conclusion of rigging. (Regardless of anybody’s politics, when the outliers are so prevalent, the dots connect themselves.) Again, it looks like we certainly disagree mi gran amigo. And believe you me, your opinion in my eyes is right up there with The Oracle of GP, as I could honestly sit around and pay for the privilege of hearing you two talk GP for the sheer tickle; however, I believe there is no less rigging of the sport in favor of Spanish first participants. (This is the abbreviated version).
But allow me to say a little bit more, in contrast to the CEV. There are a few riders in the lower categories currently racing that have participated in the Red Bull rookies cup (just off top of my head, non-Spanish riders who have moved on: Danny Kent, Arthur Sissis, I think there is another name Stradford, not sure if Bradley is one, and I’m sure there are a few more) yet to date, none are American (despite them wining championships, in both the America’s cup and the Euro cup)! Ask yourself, where might these cup winners be today had they been Spanish? Look what a similar contest did for Pedrosa. You look at the ranks of Moto3 and Moto2, we are talking about a cluster of Spanish prospects moving right along. The UK started something similar, the ACU (Academy Cup), most notable graduate I suppose is Cal Crutchlow. My Brit friends will have to forgive me, but personally I don’t rate Cal as thee UK’s brightest talent, above average yes, UK’s best…debatable. Nonetheless, he was promoted into the series, and I would note, rather atypical (as usually riders from superbike classes have to at least win a title in the premier class of a given series). I must honestly defer rating Cal, as I didn't follow him closely. All I remember is he won a WSS with Buckmaster's outfit. And frankly, somebody must have seen something special, as I am reminded of those who scouted John Hopkins. In a similar vein I suppose, lower category title winners who were promoted to the Big Time. After two years, look at Cal now, riding near the front, (tis what happens when you vie somebody a chance, of which the Spanish due in spades)... given a top tier machine of course (we can never escape parity, and I’ll add, its always a litmus test on separating the wiki bandits from those who follow the nuance of racing). Moving along, the UK has a cluster of excellent talent, just to name a few (and I will admit here, I might be talking a bit beyond my depth) but: S. Lowes (which will have to prove himself in the big boy class), S. Byrne (yeah old but dude still has it) E. Laverty, T. Sykes, L. Camier, C. Davies, and my sentimental fav L. Haslam. I’ll even throw in Josh Brooks (though hes an Aussie). I won’t bore you with a few American names who I think might make the cut. However, I find it hard to believe that these racers, who also like the Spanish, start off racing as young kids, have not the skills to make it onto the world stage of GP and hold their own with the Spanish contigent (regardless that their craft is mainly on superbikes as oppose to 125s/250s or their 4 stroke equivalent). If this list of riders were Spanish, they’d all be in GP by now!
You know, I could go on and on. As I was typing this I remembered and article I read in American Motorcyclist dated something like 1983-84ish. It had a piece in it about why Americans dominated the world stage at the time. No, it wasn’t because GP was an American company, sponsored by American oil companies, it had a very different take. And one that I think speaks to today’s situation with quiet relevance. If I can find it, I’ll pull it up. I think you will find it interesting.
Austin my friend (and I know I'm gonna get a bit in trouble with Krops (though I know both you boys being good Christians will forgive me), we may just have to agree to disagree on this one, but, allow me to make a case (btw BJC made a similar case on another thread, but I didn’t respond to him because frankly I think hes an ....., not to mention a MigsAnal rehash of anti-American sentiment); nonetheless, I’m not buying there is NO favoritism in MotoGP-Dorna for Spanish riders (sorry for the double negative dude, must drive you crazy, hehe). I am not buying Spanish racers are the best skilled and or talented in the world. What exactly would lead us to believe this in the first place? Somehow I’m not convinced the CEV is the greatest league on the planet turning out great riders simply because they keep appearing in MotoGP. I would submit to you this IS by design. All the Spanish riders keep landing on the best teams and equipment (conspicuously with Reposl banners), then we are going to point out they have the best records? The lessons of ‘parity’ in GP should be plenty clear from the last two years ).
DORNA runs the CEV! (I would repeat this 10x). http://www.dorna.com/dorna_thecompany.html (And for others reading this, let me explain, the Spanish National racing series, that is, the Spanish counterparts to the UK’s BSB (that everybody has seen & heard of) or US’s AMA (that everybody has heard of and some seen), or Europe’s (let’s face it) WSBK/WSS (that everybody has heard of & seen), well… the CEV (known specifically as “CEV Repsol”, yup that’s right, its even their URL address cevrepsol.com) is RUN BY DORNA! Just out of curiosity, when was the last time anybody reading this saw a CEV Repsol race? That their subsidiary riders then appear in the next steps of the parent Company/League, run by the same people, should NOT lead one to conclude that these riders are the best by virtue of their participation in GP (especially given the nature of their participation is almost always on the best equipment). Friend, allow me to quote Dovi, ‘GP is not a meritocracy.’
As I see it, the sport has been HIGHJACKED! Nothing less. The CEV rightly would be ranked behind BSB, WSBK/WSS, and marginally lateral to the AMA (that’s only given the reality of the poor state our national series is in at the moment). YET, the overwhelming preponderance of riders “promoted” into the lower categories of MotoGP are from the Spanish ranks and NOT BSB, WSBK/WSS. When we do get somebody from these other series its big news. Meanwhile the numbers are made up by Spanish riders, a conveyor-belt steadily filling the top ranks of GP. How then we can conclude that there is no Spanish favoritism and rather they are promoted solely on merit, where riders who have ridden in other highly competitive series rarely make the cut, is unlikely at best! Frankly, I am reminded of an editorial I read many years ago by Jim Lampley (yes the boxing announcer) a piece titled “The Biggest Story of our Lives.” In it he describes the highly unlikely probabilities that lead one to the unmistakable conclusion of rigging. (Regardless of anybody’s politics, when the outliers are so prevalent, the dots connect themselves.) Again, it looks like we certainly disagree mi gran amigo. And believe you me, your opinion in my eyes is right up there with The Oracle of GP, as I could honestly sit around and pay for the privilege of hearing you two talk GP for the sheer tickle; however, I believe there is no less rigging of the sport in favor of Spanish first participants. (This is the abbreviated version).
But allow me to say a little bit more, in contrast to the CEV. There are a few riders in the lower categories currently racing that have participated in the Red Bull rookies cup (just off top of my head, non-Spanish riders who have moved on: Danny Kent, Arthur Sissis, I think there is another name Stradford, not sure if Bradley is one, and I’m sure there are a few more) yet to date, none are American (despite them wining championships, in both the America’s cup and the Euro cup)! Ask yourself, where might these cup winners be today had they been Spanish? Look what a similar contest did for Pedrosa. You look at the ranks of Moto3 and Moto2, we are talking about a cluster of Spanish prospects moving right along. The UK started something similar, the ACU (Academy Cup), most notable graduate I suppose is Cal Crutchlow. My Brit friends will have to forgive me, but personally I don’t rate Cal as thee UK’s brightest talent, above average yes, UK’s best…debatable. Nonetheless, he was promoted into the series, and I would note, rather atypical (as usually riders from superbike classes have to at least win a title in the premier class of a given series). I must honestly defer rating Cal, as I didn't follow him closely. All I remember is he won a WSS with Buckmaster's outfit. And frankly, somebody must have seen something special, as I am reminded of those who scouted John Hopkins. In a similar vein I suppose, lower category title winners who were promoted to the Big Time. After two years, look at Cal now, riding near the front, (tis what happens when you vie somebody a chance, of which the Spanish due in spades)... given a top tier machine of course (we can never escape parity, and I’ll add, its always a litmus test on separating the wiki bandits from those who follow the nuance of racing). Moving along, the UK has a cluster of excellent talent, just to name a few (and I will admit here, I might be talking a bit beyond my depth) but: S. Lowes (which will have to prove himself in the big boy class), S. Byrne (yeah old but dude still has it) E. Laverty, T. Sykes, L. Camier, C. Davies, and my sentimental fav L. Haslam. I’ll even throw in Josh Brooks (though hes an Aussie). I won’t bore you with a few American names who I think might make the cut. However, I find it hard to believe that these racers, who also like the Spanish, start off racing as young kids, have not the skills to make it onto the world stage of GP and hold their own with the Spanish contigent (regardless that their craft is mainly on superbikes as oppose to 125s/250s or their 4 stroke equivalent). If this list of riders were Spanish, they’d all be in GP by now!
You know, I could go on and on. As I was typing this I remembered and article I read in American Motorcyclist dated something like 1983-84ish. It had a piece in it about why Americans dominated the world stage at the time. No, it wasn’t because GP was an American company, sponsored by American oil companies, it had a very different take. And one that I think speaks to today’s situation with quiet relevance. If I can find it, I’ll pull it up. I think you will find it interesting.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Keshav
Oh, and before I forget, a reply for my dancing monkey BJC, here is a fun fact. Not all eyes on a TV (viewership) are created equal (Hes probably thinking, what was the point of this sentence). I won’t rebut his ridiculously ignorant statements with words he probably will not understand unless he read them on wiki. Especially regarding the American market (which Dorna seem so interested in for some reason...) or respond to his lame link of anti-Americanism, which I’m sure he has memorized (if he didn't co-author it himself with MigAnal). But looky here, a picture as they say speaks….etc.
Japan Fiscal Year 2012 Motorcycle Production Reports
14256:Money U ....... ......png]
Who gives a flying F if a bunch of poor peeps tune in, when every eye tuning in here is poised to buy ..... Let me get this straight, Oceania (whatever pile of .... islands that means) can get a nice viewership, but purchase .... (as they say). Some things you just can't learn on wiki, namely, insight and intelligence.
Oh, and before I forget, a reply for my dancing monkey BJC, here is a fun fact. Not all eyes on a TV (viewership) are created equal (Hes probably thinking, what was the point of this sentence). I won’t rebut his ridiculously ignorant statements with words he probably will not understand unless he read them on wiki. Especially regarding the American market (which Dorna seem so interested in for some reason...) or respond to his lame link of anti-Americanism, which I’m sure he has memorized (if he didn't co-author it himself with MigAnal). But looky here, a picture as they say speaks….etc.
Japan Fiscal Year 2012 Motorcycle Production Reports
14256:Money U ....... ......png]
Who gives a flying F if a bunch of poor peeps tune in, when every eye tuning in here is poised to buy ..... Let me get this straight, Oceania (whatever pile of .... islands that means) can get a nice viewership, but purchase .... (as they say). Some things you just can't learn on wiki, namely, insight and intelligence.
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