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Ducati GP9 and Stoner

Joined Jun 2008
583 Posts | 0+
Gold Coast, Australia
To bring up an old topic, why is Stoner so much faster than the other Ducs.
Aside from not winning the championship last year, Stoner has pretty much dominated in 2007, a big part of 2008, and the early testing in 2009. If current form is an indicator, he will walk away with the first couple of races in 2009. When Stoner is really on his game, only Rossi gets close. Even when he is off his game, only Rossi beats him.
The gaps in pre-season testing are pretty substantial. 0.7 sec to second and 1.1 sec to third on a track where he has always struggled. How will he go at Qatar or Philip Is. Is 2009 going to be another 2007 where no one gets close to Stoner.

I think only Rossi and Doohan have been that dominant in the modern era, and I think it is harder to be that dominant now with all the controls, than it was in the 90's when Doohan was racing for HRC on the unrestricted 500's.

How would Stoner have gone on a factory 500 or a factory 990.
Ducati have had some pretty decent riders, and no doubt the bikes are fast, but no one else on a Ducati has come close to Stoner, and it is really looking like Nicky's going to struggle to match Stoner's pace (not giving Nickyshit because I like the guy).
Everyone predicted Marco would wipe Stoner in 2008.

Is it the bike, or is Stoner really that good. I don't agree that no one else can figure out how to ride the Duc. With all the data, the other riders know exactly where Stoner is faster than them, and where he is making up time. They would watch his every move on the bike and try to copy what he does. So far, no one has been able to.

The guy parked a privateer 990 on pole on his first MotoGP ride, and fought for podiums on the lowly rated, under funded LCR Honda with .... tyres in 2006. Since joining Ducati he has hardly been off the podium except when he crashed.

The guy is a tool at times, but full credit to him, because he is making it look like he is a genius on the Duc.
Rossi has said Stoner is the hardest challenger he has ever faced.
Doohan said last year Stoner is probably now the fastest guy in MotoGP.
Even JB pushed very hard to get Stoner in to the Yamaha team

So is Stoner that good.
Is he really that much better than Pedro, Jorge, Kallio, Dovi, Marco, etc.
How would Rossi and Burgess go with the Duc.
Would Rossi be as fast as Stoner on the Duc.
(Apologies for sounding like a Stoner cheerleader)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Mar 31 2009, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Even JB pushed very hard to get Stoner in to the Yamaha team

Yeah thats a great shame that one ...... I think JB secretly wants t relive his Doohan days
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.... probably feels Stoner is about as "touchy-feely" as Doohan was and kinda misses that
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What an unbeatable combination that would have been ....... I wonder if it would be one of the only combinations possible of getting the 100% wins in a season. Very hard task I know, but it would take mentalities such as those two.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Mar 31 2009, 11:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah thats a great shame that one ...... I think JB secretly wants t relive his Doohan days
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.... probably feels Stoner is about as "touchy-feely" as Doohan was and kinda misses that
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What an unbeatable combination that would have been ....... I wonder if it would be one of the only combinations possible of getting the 100% wins in a season. Very hard task I know, but it would take mentalities such as those two.
You meen Stoner doohan and jb are gay ??
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i didn't know that, must be an ozzy boy thing
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So what's the main question? If "Would Rossi be as fast as Stoner on the Duc." I reckon yes (if not faster).
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Anyway, it is not the bike. It is the Stoner.
Otherwise, Stoner & Marco would swap podium last year.
 
Rider or Bike? Old question indeed.
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Of course it is always BOTH--and the tremendous effectiveness of Stoner on the Ducati 800 means that they form an almost perfect rider-bike combination.

We all know that this Ducati would not be as fast without Stoner--but of course if Stoner wins with it, it means the bike does have the winning potential. No way a rider, however good, can take so many wins on a sub-par bike nowadays.

So all one can say is that only Stoner has been capable to extract the full potential from the Ducati for the moment, at least in its 800 incarnation; remember that with the 990 also Capirossi was capable to take several wins on the Ducati.

So the answer to the Stoner-Ducati enigma can only be 'excellent chemistry'.

The question 'would Stoner's winning potential manifest as well on other bikes?' cannot be answered for sure until Stoner sticks to Ducati. Same applies to an hypothetical Rossi on Ducati.

I'd bet Stoner, (like Rossi), would be among the three fastest riders on any factory bike, but in order to win titles they should provide him with the same front-end stability the Ducati proverbially has, (which imho he needs to avoid the frequent front-end crashes that used to plague him on the 2006 Honda).
 
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This is actually a fresh topic when you actually understand what's going on.

The control tire is why Stoner is so fast. Ducati has a rearward weight bias and Bridgestones were designed to work with the Ducati b/c Ducati appeared as the dominant Bridgestone team during the late 990 era.

But last year...............
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don't even start.

Last year they changed the rules after the first round. The development masters Rossi/Burgess were able to adapt the bike much faster than anyone else in the field. Suzuki has the smallest budget of all, imo. They weren't able to adapt the bike to the tires until after the season was over. Now that they have been able to adapt the bike, they are back at the pointy end.

The control tire has failed to control performance, and judging by the heated negotiations at the end of 2007, I don't believe Bridgestone really give a damn what Dorna wants. They certainly have new operating rules for 2009, but Bridgestone have probably started marching down the path they were on before the emergency rules package in 2008. That road leads them to Bologna and to the rider who helped them win their first world championship. The 2007 tire development philosophy also benefits Suzuki.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rgvneil @ Mar 31 2009, 02:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You sure did mate
Geez, I thought we had answered this question a long time ago.

Its Casey, no doubt about it. end of thread.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Mar 31 2009, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is actually a fresh topic when you actually understand what's going on.

The control tire is why Stoner is so fast. Ducati has a rearward weight bias and Bridgestones were designed to work with the Ducati b/c Ducati appeared as the dominant Bridgestone team during the late 990 era.

But last year...............
<
don't even start.

Last year they changed the rules after the first round. The development masters Rossi/Burgess were able to adapt the bike much faster than anyone else in the field. Suzuki has the smallest budget of all, imo. They weren't able to adapt the bike to the tires until after the season was over. Now that they have been able to adapt the bike, they are back at the pointy end.

The control tire has failed to control performance, and judging by the heated negotiations at the end of 2007, I don't believe Bridgestone really give a damn what Dorna wants. They certainly have new operating rules for 2009, but Bridgestone have probably started marching down the path they were on before the emergency rules package in 2008. That road leads them to Bologna and to the rider who helped them win their first world championship. The 2007 tire development philosophy also benefits Suzuki.
Interesting argument. Post the jerez test the official bridgestone release mentioned stoner, kallio and the suzukis. I can't see that dorna have much leverage on bridgestone at the moment particularly given the economic climate; what are they going to say to them, behave or we won't let you keep providing tyres for free? I wouldn't think that michelin would come rushing back given the travails of the company even prior to the current world economic situation and their treatment by dorna last year which could be described as cavalier.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Mar 31 2009, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So what's the main question? If "Would Rossi be as fast as Stoner on the Duc." I reckon yes (if not faster).
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Anyway, it is not the bike. It is the Stoner.
Otherwise, Stoner & Marco would swap podium last year.
I really think most all of us know it always is going to be the rider for the most part. You can see through all the ........ and realize Casey is something special with that particular bike so you can give some credit to the machine. If you don't then just remember his first year in GP on the honda when he would crash a whole bunch like Randy. So both are really to be commended for their efforts, it would seem as though that is one tough team overall to beat and that is what wins titles.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Mar 31 2009, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I really think most all of us know it always is going to be the rider for the most part. You can see through all the ........ and realize Casey is something special with that particular bike so you can give some credit to the machine. If you don't then just remember his first year in GP on the honda when he would crash a whole bunch like Randy. So both are really to be commended for their efforts, it would seem as though that is one tough team overall to beat and that is what wins titles.

Don't ya mean title!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 31 2009, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Geez, I thought we had answered this question a long time ago.

Its Casey, no doubt about it. end of thread.

It's easy to see.
 
there is lots of reason's why stoner is suited to the duke.

but im not gettin into an old debate...

isit the rider ....yes

isit the bike.....yes

its the combination of the two... to be honest the agresive nature of the duke suits stoners style. he likes to sling it around and his past dirtbike days only help in this situation.

il cover my back cos i know you lot.... as i said in another thread the duke has to be 100% spot on, it either works or it doesnt, look at last season for an example.

when elias hit the magical sweetspot he was on the podium...same for stoner he was either there or having some issues... kalio wasnt doing to well then he hit the sweetspot and cranked out a good time, then said that they should be fast for qatar as they have found a good base to work from and feel confident.

stoner and rossi are the two best gp riders in the world simple as that.

bad idea bringing up this again i hope everyone doesnt bite LOL
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Mar 31 2009, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting argument. Post the jerez test the official bridgestone release mentioned stoner, kallio and the suzukis. I can't see that dorna have much leverage on bridgestone at the moment particularly given the economic climate; what are they going to say to them, behave or we won't let you keep providing tyres for free? I wouldn't think that michelin would come rushing back given the travails of the company even prior to the current world economic situation and their treatment by dorna last year which could be described as cavalier.

It's interesting to me, too.

At the end of last year, Dorna went out of their way to emphasize that the new tire rule was actually one-make and not control. The engineers have been telling Ezy to back off, and Bridgestone have been less than impressed with his meddling in the tire affair of 2007.

I was certain that the new tire would be a control, but after seeing the improvement in times, I'm convinced that the tire is more likely a one make like Dorna stated. Bridgestone are obviously still developing, and if I were them, I'd certainly beat a path back to the doorstep where everything began.

I'm certain they've been testing lots of compounds for this upcoming season, it wouldn't surprise me if Bridgestones final selections for construction and compound are relatively similar to Stoner's preferences.

BTW, has anyone noticed that DORNA significantly changed the tire rules for 2009 but Bridgestone has not had a chance to test their new tires at all of the circuits? No one seems worried.

That's beating a dead horse, but at least I'm not the one who killed it.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Mar 31 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Don't ya mean title!!
No I mean a team is what it takes to win titles. Are you kiddin me?
 
hemm instresting Questions i'll said both of them
rider and the bike. i must say only stoner who ride the duc so fast IF he at the front position dan ride alone.
but NO at beattlefield when stoner on a 2nd or 3rd position NO way he can be to the 1st position
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cygnus88 @ Apr 1 2009, 04:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hemm instresting Questions i'll said both of them
rider and the bike. i must say only stoner who ride the duc so fast IF he at the front position dan ride alone.
but NO at beattlefield when stoner on a 2nd or 3rd position NO way he can be to the 1st position
Laguna 2008 is a short and strong argument for your point of view but there was also catalunya 2007, and one of the wet races in 2007 (?donnington) when stoner was shuffled back to 7th or worse early in the first lap.
 
It's Stoner
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Regarding tyres, why is it a single supplier but not control tyre? Are bridgestone continuing development in anticipation of a rule change that can let other tyre manufacturer's into the sport?
 

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