Joined May 2009
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Shovel's Club
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
So why aren't other people making the same saves Marc does if the electronics are helping him? This years electronics is like 10 steps backward so that really doesn't work. Plus its pretty much a fact that the honda at the beginning of the year was ..... You don't have to debate this just because I asked. It was pretty much a rhetorical question by the time you answered it.
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Joined Apr 2015
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NJ
Dub, you should re-read the last bit of what I wrote.
And a FYI, Colin Edwards made a lowside save at Catalunya 2008.
I chose to reply because I wanted to.
Throttle control isn't what it was at one time in MotoGP. Now it's perfectly fine to wrench the thing open because the electronics --even the control ECU-- will cover the rider's ... nowadays by limiting power as necessary.
Stoner rode a .... bike for 4 straight years and is the only man in history to ever win a grand prix with a full carbon fiber chassis. That accomplishment alone is incredible.
To be fair, what he said was Stoner was angry and shutoff while he was racing and has been relaxed and approachable since he retired.
Makes sense. After all, if he were happy and fulfilled in his racing days, Stoner'd still be racing today.
I don't think ascribing a 'sour grapes' motivation to Dovizioso's comment is really justified.
Total ........ dubs and you know it but let that not get in your way of deriding him,
Angry and mean are two distinctly different things as one does not have to be angry to rip the wings from a bird, they are just mean.
One can be angry because the bird shat on them, and sure they may wish harm on that bird but they do nothing short of scream abuse and wave their hands in anger.
Yes, on some occasions one can be both but NOWHERE does Dovi call Stoner mean nor does he state he was mean to people .......... that is you putting words to Dovi's mouth in the hope to have some of the mud stick, and you guy wonder why people take issue
Very good point Walter
Dubs must be mean because he is angry, thus Dubs must be a .... (and yet I bet there are many people who have had interactions with Dubs who will state outright that he is a top bloke)
You were by implication anyway comparing the application of cod psychology to Iannone, which I personally don't do to Iannone or any other rider anyway, to your application of cod psychology to Stoner, to which I believed their relative success as riders was relevant, given your whole argument which I obviously vehemently and it would seem fairly successfully oppose is that Stoner didn't have the mentality of a champion/was mentally weak etc.
Joined May 2009
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Shovel's Club
CE had one great save. Marc does it often. Too often. But ok aside from that Marc has Rossi like race craft, meaning he finds ways to pass board line moves the kind the drive Stoner nuts.
Thing about Stoner and the .... ducati comment is, he didn't do anything different on a honda. Title first year then he couldn't adapt whether it be rules or not. If he can ride the carbon fiber chassis to incredible feats then why didn't he do the better on the honda? It was a little JLo like he was incredible when conditions suited but not always. Marc is incredible nearly always.
Joined May 2009
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True, but one can suspect that Dovi's comments may contain a little of the sour grapes as HRC did attempt to oust Dovi to fit Stoner in (Dovi exercised his option as he was fully entitled) and it was reported that Dovi may not have been receiving equal support (as he made HRC look poor).
Then comes Ducati and Stoner returns posting some ridiculously good times that Dovi (nor Ianonne) had achieved which then raised further questions of Dovi moreso than Ianonne as Dovi was seen as the older and somewhat 'underachiever' against Ianonne's fast but inconsistent.
It could be quite fair to feel that Dovi may have a complex of sorts (not a genuine mental issue but more a gut feel) with regards to wherever Stoner goes, Dovi doesn't type of thing.
That said and As I have said a few times, the comment is quite fair and I would totally expect that Stoner would be intensely focussed and single minded, such was his attitude but the post retirement comments simply show that Stoner left for the right reasons and yet still, he is seemingly ridiculed by some.
Joined May 2009
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Joined May 2009
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Shovel's Club
Aren't you by rebutting my debate playing cod psy with Stoner? You are not stating that you don't like me debating his mental state you are debating his mental state with me. I know you don't like to but you do. And you know I respect your opinion. You also know this will stop when we stop being so serious about it.
A fair point, but imo and as others have also said he had quite a lot to be angry about, not least the attitude of fans such as MDub, and it is the conversion of what was imo the motor sport which most involved the pure talent of the competitors, the sport of KRSR, Lawson, Rainey and Doohan, and which I have followed avidly for 30 years to a popularity contest which seems to operate pretty much at a primary school level to which I specifically object.
If he hated everyone why was he then and remains good friends with Spies, Edwards, Lorenzo, Pedrosa?
And yes, he is mates with those guys as evidenced by social media and the comments of (particularly) Edwards, Spies and Lorenzo.
Easy again however - if you get angry because your bike fails in a MTB event - are you mean to people or just angry?
Angry and mean are two distinctly different things as there has never been comment from journalists (which given how much some enjoyed reporting negativity about Stoner) or team members indicating anything other than intense focus from Stoner. Nowhere has their been comment that he was 'mean' to people by way of putting people down etc (actually, Dovi is likely more mean with his Ianonne comments), but yes there are reports of intensity and focus that can be frightening (Krop once reported the stare as sending chills).
The article to me reads as a native tongue interview translated (not just the Stoner comments but wordings in general) and angry could refer to the manner in which Stoner went about his business at the track and how intense he was, involving few others outside of his immediate team (Dovi was not part of that team). Thus the comparison to now retired Stoner being more relaxed and engaging of others as he is now not competing against them either, he is there to assist
No, I am disputing you applying it in the first place mainly, and my declaration that it is ridiculous and an inherent contradiction to posit that someone who is a dual world champion did not have the mentality of a champion/was mentally weak, including apparently during the season when Dovi was his team-mate when one of his rather dominant championship wins was accomplished, is a subsidiary point in (lack of ) logic.
Joined May 2009
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I didn't say he hated everyone Dovi did. I said he was mean which is not as bad as hate I thought.
But to answer your question about angry or mean after a bike failure? I've seen people do both or the complete opposite. I've seen people take their aggression out on people who don't deserve it all the time. I've seen people laughed and make fun of the failure. Both feel the same thing on the inside its just how they handle it.
I've had friends that were completely unapproachable on race weekends because they need to be angry to be in the "zone." Those people are easily flustered, easily taken out of their element and never are in the game very long.
Joined May 2009
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But I think psy is a major part of sport and I think he is an example of a champion who couldn't handle being a champion. I honestly mean no disrespect when I debate that. And if Stoner himself has a problem with me debating it than that just proves my point.
Joined Apr 2015
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NJ
So he does it often.
Still doesn't change the fact that the electronics make it possible.
Why didn't he do better on the Honda? He won a title on the Honda. Or is there some mystery title that one should be aspiring to win that we don't know about?
Again, my contention still remains talent-wise, Stoner was superior to MM given his lack of need for electronics to ride a modern GP bike.
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