Dovi not pulling any punches

Gaz said:

It is an extremely rare thing to occur that late in the piece and from memory only, there is no precedent (that does not mean that there is no prior example but that I cannot recall one) and was said (rumoured) to in part be because Ducati I think it was could not make their bike lighter so the weight was increased to 'even' the playing field and was done 2 months or so prior (can be corrected there)

See, the highlighted is why people take offence/umbrage with the derision as nowhere in his reported comments (posted below) does Dovi say 'mean to people', he says angry. Angry and 'mean to people' are two distinctly different things with one being an attitude and the second an action

Obviously, the relationship has changed a lot because now if he can help you, he does. He's very positive and he has changed the way he looks at the races.

He hated everybody before, and that led to him shutting down and always being angry. Now he does what he wants, he's much more relaxed, he comes over and talks to you and spends time with you.

What does he bring? Good things. Let's say he's not the usual test rider, like Pirro, who is completely involved in the development of the bike. Casey has done a few tests and has given his opinion, but his influence this year has not been big because he hasn't always been there.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

So the added weight thing that happened to Honda, has that never happened to any other manufacturer late into development in racing? I'm not saying I agree with it but that .... happens.

Ianonne and Stoner? What are you talking about? I wouldn't waste my breath trying to compare those two. The only one I would compare CS to is MM who has proven to me to be mental stronger than any rider I have watched ride. He's been scrutinized, abused by his idol, called a murderous rider yet he still smiles learns, adapts, developes. If Stoner had half that mentality he would have won a lot more championships until Marc showed up at least. I don't care about he .... stacked against him I care about how he responded.

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michaelm said:

Marc will almost certainly surpass him for premier class title wins this year, and for premier class race wins next year in all likelihood. Your point is?

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MdubSTYLIE said:

Him hating everyone shut down and was always angry. I think its safe to say he was mean to people by that comment.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

My point is if you want to debate two riders debate those two. I'll do that all day.

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michaelm said:

You were saying/implying that posters frequently analysing Iannone's psychology (I am not one of said posters anyway) legitimises your application of cod psychology to Stoner.

I believe the late weight change thing was unpecedented , and engineering a rider vote to legitimise the removal of a tyre option mid-season certainly was. Whether or not there was precedent both things very definitely occurred and affected a bike which strongly promised to be rather dominant in Stoner's hands.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

My point is if you want to debate two riders debate those two. I'll do that all day.

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JPSLotus said:

I don't think anyone has been looking to debate MM vs CS other than you, because you still have an axe to grind.

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michaelm said:

You have taken longer than most to resort to "straw man" so I will give you some credit for that.

I don't have any significant difference in opinions to debate with you concerning MM, it is your ludicrous contentions about Stoner which I dispute, contentions which you fairly obvious can't defend.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

I'm actually a bit surprised that Dovi thought Stoner was a ..... But it does add a lot of validation to what I've said for years.

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Little Walter said:

You are only "validating" your own point of view. Dovi never said Stoner was a ..... You are constantly angry at pretty much everybody and nobody is calling you a ..... Stoner had good reasons to be angry at a lot of people. What's your excuse?

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MdubSTYLIE said:

Just because I have negative things to say about him doesn't mean I want him to get hurt. I don't wan't to see any rider hurt. Only person I know that wants to see a rider hurt is Cal. He really has something against that Cal Crutchlow guy.

Yet everyone loves to play cod psych with Iannone nobodies got a problem with that.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

But Dornas job or one of them is to maintain an even playing field isn't it? That was to help ducati as gaz pointed out, it was a horrible plan but its what they did. Then we had ducati special rules weird bikes on the podium next to the top three. These moves weren't to help Rossi they were to attempt to make the racing closer. They failed I feel like they would even admit that.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

No but micheal chose to randomly debate CS and AI and throw my name in there like I compared the two. I only care to talk about CS when something relevant comes up about him. His history to me. But I love how you all dodge that debate.

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Dr No said:

Dub, I wasn't implying that you did. I just prefer seeing people go out on their own terms. Not the Doohan/Schwantz/Rainey/Spies way

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JPSLotus said:

I would say Stoner was the better of the two riders because of an important bit: Stoner ran his bike with the electronics at a very low setting while MM doesn't. It's extremely difficult to run a modern GP bike with the electronics on low settings, and Stoner in particular was actually getting more out of the bike than anyone could with the electronics running high because he could make far more adjustments than the ECU could. What you see MM doing is the product of electronics compensating for quite a bit. Even his vaunted saves when he was on the ground in a low side and managed to pull the bike back up. No one ever talks about the electronics making it possible to open the throttle to get grip back into the tires. The computer was measuring the lean angle and adjusting to allow for the correct amount of power to be put out by the engine. Still takes faith to do it, but don't kid yourself.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

And your defenses are all conspiracies so whatever.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

I don't disagree with that. I felt like he passed some blame in his retirement meaning it wasn't under his terms. Which I think is why he still sticks around. His own terms to me would have been to conquer either the inner demon, which i believe he has or the outer demon dorna media rossi whatever it was that made him retire.

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michaelm said:

Again, you seem to have a basic problem with the logical process. The debate was not about Dorna's motives, which obviously are debatable, but your contention that Povol was promulgating a conspiracy theory about 2012. He wasn't, regulations were undeniably changed, quite likely in an unprecedented manner, and very late in the development of the 2012 Honda bike, to the detriment of that bike which had looked untouchable in Stoner's hands prior to the changes. I myself am of the opinion he could and perhaps should have overcome the changes, but that doesn't negate the changes having been made, or that said changes seem to have been unprecedented.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

No but micheal chose to randomly debate CS and AI and throw my name in there like I compared the two. I only care to talk about CS when something relevant comes up about him. His history to me. But I love how you all dodge that debate.

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