DORNA at it again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 30 2008, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am saying if your read carefully that it is the job of the losers to stop losing. The rules don't mean .... cause the winners in the world will say adapt and overcome. The ....... blame .... like this and that or whatever is convienient. I want the series to maintain the prototype racing that is everchanging from year to year development wise. 990's 800's now 600's will replace 250's come on it is excuses by honda and everyone else after Ducati shocked the world by DOMINATING. Whose fault is that? And the racing would be much better if you got some riders in there that are better than MOST OF THE FIELD. There have only been a select few that get any results worth mentioning. You see how Dovi on last years bike is adapting and overcoming. WTF get with it and stop whining about dumbing .... down cause that will be the demise of MOTO GP not repeals and These proposed drastic changes. They need to tweak some things but really. When Vale stopped winning like he did outright then everyone ..... their pants and says DUcati cheats or more excuses. Moto gp is fine and it will be better. This is only the 2nd year for 800's as well so put some things in perspective to really evaluate the thing.

Rock, I appreciate your idealism, but the future of the sport is brokered behind closed doors. If I believed that Ducati succeeded because of free competitive forces, I would be categorically opposed to any changes.

I don't have a problem with avoiding rules change---as long as Ducati is willing to field 6 factory machines with factory support. Obviously, such an arrangement isn't financially or competitively viable because the manufacuturers cozy up next to one title sponsor. However, Honda was forced to provide numerous factory bikes in 2003 when it was obvious they showed up with a machine no one could touch. I would even go so far as to say Vale/Burgess were traded to Yamaha with Dorna subsidies to improve the competitive landscape of the sport.

As far as I can tell there are 3 options;

1. Change the governing structure of the sport (yeah right, FIM are powerless)
2. Improve safety equipment (never been pursued by DORNA or the FIM)
3. Change the bikes (frequently used every meeting by the MotoGP powers that be)

I know these types of changes are a shock to most people on here, but for me (someone who understands the country club mentality of the sport) these highly public changes are the culmination of a sport that has been manipulated since the inception of the 4 stroke era.

Everyone said there was no way it could stay secret forever. Obviously, everyone was right, so here's what you've all been waiting for. The fixation of the sport is starting to break down. The conspiracy is not functioning properly. After 6 seasons the levees are beginning to break.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 30 2008, 07:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can attach GP and the name prototype to about anything these days.At what point does this cease being the ultimate technologically advanced form of racing and become just another series.Grooved tires,spec ecu's,has this ....... been talking to Roger Edmondson at DMG.

Actually he has:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jul/080718y.htm

Lex I am with ya man. I understand the stuffed shirt golf club weilding mentality. It all can be summed up in just one word my fine good man. And that word is....MONEY!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jul 30 2008, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dumbing down tires will result in many, many crashes.

Dumbing down the tires will not result in more crashes. Actually it might very well do the oposite. Not only slowing down the corner speed but also make the grip much more predictable and managebale.
It's nothing i'm sure about but I suspect that a harder compound required with groves might give the riders a better feel for the limit.
The actual changed grip is something the best riders take a few laps to figure out, absolutly nothing dramatic there.

...............990's


...............1090's ????


................ UNLIMITED FUEL


...................UNLIMTED RUBBER


...................STARTREK STUFF IN THE BIN.....


...................STANDARD ECU

I don't believe all that conspiracy theory crap. It's obvious that they need to races to get more exciting and as far as I'm concerned they should do this:

Spec Tyre
Spec ECU (no or very little TC)

That way there will be no more unequal race tyres, more spectacular riding antics (Spinning the rear etc) and there would be no more accusations about someone winning because of thier superior electronics etc.

The bikes would still be fast and relatively safe.

Leave the tires, ECU and engines alone... just give us 22 liters of fuel and we'll be fine

Mick Doohan kicked everyones arse a few years ago on a 500 2 stroke with no ecu - what would have these "let's change the rules to level the playing field" ......s come up with back then if they had the chance? Vale and Stoner have won 4 races each this year becuse for whatever reason they ride harder than the other riders. Changing the bikes, tyres, ecu's, or .... rings won't make any difference to the results.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lad @ Jul 30 2008, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Mick Doohan kicked everyones arse a few years ago on a 500 2 stroke with no ecu - what would have these "let's change the rules to level the playing field" ......s come up with back then if they had the chance? Vale and Stoner have won 4 races each this year becuse for whatever reason they ride harder than the other riders. Changing the bikes, tyres, ecu's, or .... rings won't make any difference to the results.
yeah the .... ring does nothing

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 30 2008, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ducati wins the championship and is now at the Front of the pack and everyone screams we need changes. Bridgestone wins one championship after ...... Michilin has dominated for years and everyone screams we need changes. We need the other stupid ... companies to get their .... together just like Ducati and Bridgestone. They need to shut the hell up and get it together. IF they can't they they deserve to lose. Period. .... you people that want to water down a series by controlling ECU's, Tires, and whatever else so that it can go someones elses way like Honda and Fagdrosa. It is one of the last series if not the only one left that has a shred of descency by remaining close to its roots. The powers that be wanting to propose all these types of changes underminds the very fabric of the series itself. If you don't like Stoner and Ducati then Go out and beat him by making a better bike and finding a better rider. Tough .... if you didn't do your Job. In my world if you slack and I find that your responsible then your FIRED!!!! End of story WHO"S next in line for the position and we will see if that person is going to get the job done.


MATE YOU ARE SO RIGHT....

Motogp need Ducati and Bridgestone Stoner, for the simple reason they are the only Group that can beat Yamaha-Rossi, Honda as well. One guess who would be winning all these Titles-Rossi not that Rossi isnt a great rider i respect what he has acheived, and is great, but the sport needs more then 1 winner. Motogp has always been a Prototype race series with state of the art Technology leave it alone its good as it is..

How many Titles have Honda, Yamaha and Michelin won? heaps and just cos Ducati are smart people who designed a winning bike for the last 2 years, theres all this need to slow then down ,cos the Team that should be winning arnt.
Heres a thought why dont the other teams PULL THERE FINGERS OUTTA THERE ... and build a better bike, they might start winning, they have 2 times the Budget Ducati have.
The sad truth is that i think the rules will be changed to slow Ducati-Stoner down, the powers that be EZY-Rossi will make sure they change. Look at Rossi he demanded new Tyres last year and he got them so he just needs to keep talking changes more..

The thing is Vale is always saying he doesnt want TC cos im sure he thinks thats the only reason Stoners wins the Funy thing is he may just Kick his ... without TC as well?
I just think leave things alone, is they wonna beat them then build a better bike..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stoner 27 @ Jul 31 2008, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MATE YOU ARE SO RIGHT....
Motogp need Ducati and Bridgestone Stoner, for the simple reason they are the only Group that can beat Yamaha-Rossi, Honda as well. One guess who would be winning all these Titles-Rossi not that Rossi isnt a great rider i respect what he has acheived, and is great, but the sport needs more then 1 winner. Motogp has always been a Prototype race series with state of the art Technology leave it alone its good as it is..
There is doubtless some truth in this, but in my opinion it is pretty much a subtext. I am a stoner fan currently, and have been a ducati fan for decades, and I like to see them win too, but as mylexicon says at the very least they need to have someone to beat. Even putting aside such issues as the lack of frequent close racing, the threat of wsbk, the claimed excessive influence of electronics, and perhaps even safety, it is undeniable that the bikes are too expensive and the field is diminishing, and this is a problem.

Let me state for the record that spec ECU and control tires are dumb regulations in a prototype class.

Unfortunately, recent governance has been so horrible that serious change is needed. If you don't like spec ECU and control tires, that's one thing. If you think the sport can continue down the road it is going, that is another thing all together.

Change must occur. The philosophy of the 800s was doubtlessly that restricted fuel and reduced capacity would lead to a marginal price of hp that would cause budgets to be invested elsewhere.

Instead, one team has a nearly untouchable 20hp advantage (yey for Ducati) and a tiny budget incapable of supporting 6 bikes. The Japanese cannot cost effectively design and build new engines to compete with Ducati's.

Even Ezy realized this and he wrote a contract for Vale to make sure he had B-stones. Yet people are worried about spec parts

The 800s have failed to achieve anything other than the near ruination of the sport. I don't really care whose winning right now, the sport needs to change.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stoner 27 @ Jul 31 2008, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>MATE YOU ARE SO RIGHT....
Sure, and the moon is a cheese.
Get a grip guys. There has been 28 - twentyeight - races without a pass for the win on the last lap. Stoner won about half of those, and allthough his strong performance contributed to that result he is not alone.
It's not anymore fun when Rossi or Pedrosa win. Even without Stoner in the equation there has stil been about 14 races without 1. place action at the end of the race.
And that's not all, but in most races the two next positions have been just a setteled as the 1st place. Today 2 seconds lead could just as well been a lap, the rider aids make them so consistent that a change in pace are about as likely as Melandri winning on a Ducati. A 2 sec lead used to be a formality to catch up. Seeing somone in front was more then enough motivation to push that little extra to catch up. Now, even among the closest matched riders it's more about who has that extra .005 extra a lap, enabeling them to create that huge 2 sec gap.
It's NOT about stoner, can you grasp that thought for a second? Thought not

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 31 2008, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A 2 sec lead used
Today 2 seconds lead could just as well been a lap
to be a formality to catch up.


so TRUE

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 31 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sure, and the moon is a cheese.
Get a grip guys. There has been 28 - twentyeight - races without a pass for the win on the last lap. Stoner won about half of those, and allthough his strong performance contributed to that result he is not alone.
It's not anymore fun when Rossi or Pedrosa win. Even without Stoner in the equation there has stil been about 14 races without 1. place action at the end of the race.
And that's not all, but in most races the two next positions have been just a setteled as the 1st place. Today 2 seconds lead could just as well been a lap, the rider aids make them so consistent that a change in pace are about as likely as Melandri winning on a Ducati. A 2 sec lead used to be a formality to catch up. Seeing somone in front was more then enough motivation to push that little extra to catch up. Now, even among the closest matched riders it's more about who has that extra .005 extra a lap, enabeling them to create that huge 2 sec gap.
It's NOT about stoner, can you grasp that thought for a second? Thought not
You have to realize I am not all about Stoner although he is a great addition to the Ducati team which is my passion. I would love to see Ducati win the title again but I would rather have them do it battling it out with the best of the best. End of story and argument. The comments we are talking about here are referring to the fact that last year Rossi Bitched got what he wanted and now he is doing much better. The fact that Stoner is doing so well is because he is a good rider. He has been the only one really to make the Duc work so well. Capirex really developed the bike along with the test riders so that bike wasn't even made for him like Honda did for Dani. So the facts are facts and give credit where it is due. .... even fagdrosa is a good rider I just think he is a little .... who needs to grow the .... up. Viva Ducati and show em your backside Stoner and the hell with what all the haters say.

With a Spec ECU Ducati would be severely compromised... they would have to built a better chasis.

I don't agree with it because it would only make it even harder to pass than it already is and we'd not get much sideways action anyway.

When riders crash they would just pass the blame.

How about this idea:

MECHANICAL FUEL INJECTION

It hasn't been around for a long time, but you can't run TC and there's no need for a spec ECU. They could raise displacement without making the sport too fast.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 31 2008, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You have to realize I am not all about Stoner although he is a great addition to the Ducati team which is my passion. I would love to see Ducati win the title again but I would rather have them do it battling it out with the best of the best. End of story and argument. The comments we are talking about here are referring to the fact that last year Rossi Bitched got what he wanted and now he is doing much better. The fact that Stoner is doing so well is because he is a good rider. He has been the only one really to make the Duc work so well. Capirex really developed the bike along with the test riders so that bike wasn't even made for him like Honda did for Dani. So the facts are facts and give credit where it is due. .... even fagdrosa is a good rider I just think he is a little .... who needs to grow the .... up. Viva Ducati and show em your backside Stoner and the hell with what all the haters say.

Hey, I just tried to tell you this is not about Stoner, Ducati or Rossi. Quit the bitching, there is no credit due for regulations. You Ducati/Stoner fans seems so set on the electronics that you piss in the pants by the thought of a control ECU, forgetting that no ECU really add power. Ducati still have 20hp more probably due to their desmo valvetrain and any standard ECU will still be fully programable for fuel and ignition mappings so the possibility to have a smooth ducati is not only possible it's overly probable. I don't see a control ECU as an issue for Duacti at all. They should be able to have the same usable low end and screaming high top end power. That is unless the bike is only ridable with every ....... gizmo connected, in what case they really, really should be detroned, but I find that very very unlikely.

So, again this is about finding workable solutions to get some entertainment, or racing if you like, into the series again. I don't like the ECU suggestion, a ban on certain sensors and actuators would be much better. Groved tires sounds interesting as this could slow down the corner speed, but for that to happen FIM would have to get involved enforcing similar rules in SBK.

Latest news :

http://www.motogpmatters.com/opinion/2008/..._ecu_again.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Aug 1 2008, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Latest news :

http://www.motogpmatters.com/opinion/2008/..._ecu_again.html
Excellent article, thanks for the link.

now this is a good idea:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I'm inclined to suggest to the manufacturers that they call his bluff...
Sometime late in the season, after The Champion is crowned, they should all just run the fuel maps their riders want. There would be minimal need for re-engineering the bikes, since the fuel maps already exist. If we suddenly see better racing and different guys at the front, then we would have all the answers we need. When they run out of gas, they fall out of the race, and then Dorna and the FIM will have a problem on their hands about who is to blame for the decreasing quality of "their show".