Does this suck?

yes it is a ...... thing to do,
ive come to the conclusion that hrc dont like multi champ. hrc would rather have a different honda rider win it each year,that backs up there claim that its all the bike not the rider. multi champ tend to take the focus away from the bike and its put more on the rider just look at vale & doohan and i bet they start to order hrc about and through there weight about more as well. just my thoughts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 4 2007, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That will .... up the Haydonettes heads, me giving props to the Hayfield!

Pete

Now that’s twice in just a couple of threads Pete!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 4 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes it is a ...... thing to do,
ive come to the conclusion that hrc dont like multi champ. hrc would rather have a different honda rider win it each year,that backs up there claim that its all the bike not the rider. multi champ tend to take the focus away from the bike and its put more on the rider just look at vale & doohan and i bet they start to order hrc about and through there weight about more as well. just my thoughts.

But Doohan always ran & wan with Honda? I guess it does not match up… HRC focusing only on Pedrosa, only on ‘the Rider’? I guess it does not match up! Maybe they see Pedrosa as the new Doohan or something.


1998 - 500cc - DOOHAN, Mick - AUS - Honda
1997 - 500cc - DOOHAN, Mick - AUS - Honda
1996 - 500cc - DOOHAN, Mick - AUS - Honda
1995 - 500cc - DOOHAN, Mick - AUS - Honda
1994 - 500cc - DOOHAN, Mick - AUS - Honda

I dont think Honda ever intended for Hayden to be their #1.It was rumored that Honda was reluctant to bring him in when they did but the American racing scene was having a love affair with Hayden. One thing the Japs are not, is stupid.They know how important the US market is and this is what the US bike scene wanted.Hayden in Gp.They never dreamed Rossi would leave,he has said so himself.Hayden was supposed to be what Colin Edwards is today,Friend,tire tester and all around good teammate.Now they expect him to be that teamate to Pedrosa which aint going to work.There is bad blood between those 2 already since Pedro seemed to make a concentrated effort to derail Hayden last year.I wonder if that might not come back around with the shoe on the other foot sometime in the next 2 seasons.Pedro leading the championship,Hayden disgruntled for lack of respect,knows he wont be resigning and give them the big .... YOU.Takes Pedro out in the last race of the season,ripping the title from his tiny little fingers.The only thing wrong with this scenario is, until Rossi decides to retire,Pedro will not enter the last race of the year with the points lead.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 4 2007, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, but how many times did Doohan threaten to go to Yamaha? (Feel free to google this if you are a "real" fan, I cant be arsed)

Personally, I think that Rossi kicking thier arse (... if you are American) has made them even more determined to show that it's about the bike.

Apart from Roberts, Honda ruled the big class fae 1994 til 2004. I think they just have gone too far up themselves.
Pete

It's not arguing with you mate, in fact I agree to “who has proved that it takes more than a Honda to win a championship”… and I also think “they just have gone too far up themselves”.

The ‘giving props to the Hayfield!’ (twice) thing was a joke!

And Doohan numbers was just stats over Rog’s “hrc would rather have a different honda rider win it each year”… but I kind of see them focusing all in Pedrosa, so maybe they see Pedrosa as the new Doohan or something, don’t really know.

I think hondas racing strategy has developed a lot since rossi left. The old scholl way was to fill the grid (and podium) with hondas with all the best and remotely good riders on them and "prove" that hondamake the best bikes in the world.

I think after rossi left they were a bit lost for riders and had no real power force on their bikes. Then they started breeeding 250cc riders as quickly as possible, running like 6 factory bikes in the small class. Now its all paid off because they have Pedrosa under their wing and ready to go. Basically i think they realize the importance of nurturing one guy and making him "the man" in order to have the best shot at the title, this is particularly important when they are trying to beat rossi but i doubt they'll go back when he retires.

Overall the new way is good for all honda riders after dani does the hard work developing an excelent bike, the parts will filter down to the others and there bikes will become sorted. I doubt they will spend too long tayloring a bike just for Nicky like they did last year, because now they have other means of championship contention. Plus they will tell hayden that he wont be at the front till he stops riding the 800 like a 990.................they have a point!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 5 2007, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think hondas racing strategy has developed a lot since rossi left. The old scholl way was to fill the grid (and podium) with hondas with all the best and remotely good riders on them and "prove" that hondamake the best bikes in the world.

I think after rossi left they were a bit lost for riders and had no real power force on their bikes. Then they started breeeding 250cc riders as quickly as possible, running like 6 factory bikes in the small class. Now its all paid off because they have Pedrosa under their wing and ready to go. Basically i think they realize the importance of nurturing one guy and making him "the man" in order to have the best shot at the title, this is particularly important when they are trying to beat rossi but i doubt they'll go back when he retires.

Overall the new way is good for all honda riders after dani does the hard work developing an excelent bike, the parts will filter down to the others and there bikes will become sorted. I doubt they will spend too long tayloring a bike just for Nicky like they did last year, because now they have other means of championship contention. Plus they will tell hayden that he wont be at the front till he stops riding the 800 like a 990.................they have a point!

I hate googling so correct me if I'm worng but wasn't pedrosa a Spanish Repsol sponsored World Champion when Rossi left Honda?
My point is that Pedrosa are hardly a result of a new strategy, he's a remarkable talent that Honda would have to be blind not to nuture up through the classes. Their strategy may have changed but Dani was onboard before that came into effect, and anyway I can't see that much of a change since Rossi left. To me it look very much the same as the "new policy" they declared when Rossi decided to leave. They throw out a lot of bikes and there is a lot of bitching about who gets parts first. They have a lot of riders giving input to the development and no clear voice telling them where to go, resulting in trade offs and half way solutions. Only their huge development department enabeling to optmize what they've got and of course the F1-experience on engines enable them to be competetive. As fast as the deveolopment of the motoGP bikes are there is no reason why they couldn't be as dominating as in 2002 - 2003, but fortunatly they are not. (allthough I would very much like a few extra millions to by my team a Honda engine in the Fantasy League) Instead they have the mini factory Ducati kicking assshowing them how engines should be buildt and they piano and sailboat maker showing them how a chassi should be made. Must be quite humiliating being HRC these days.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 4 2007, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>me giving props to the Hayfield!
I read your post several times over to find the punchline or sarcasm, or something to explain what I was reading. I'm not high, em I?

(I'm getting reading to leave on vacation for a week, thanks for the send off gift).

I'm not sure what HRC is thinking, but its rather disheartnening. You make some great points Pete. I'm a bit frustrated myself. Funny thing is, this jump from ship that Rossi did from Honda to Yamaha, is one reason that I have respect for him (Yes, I respect Rossi). I remember sitting around the bar with friends talking about this when he did it. You could imagine everybody had a different take, but one thing that was agreed was this, that Rossi was not gonna allow a company to dictate to him what is or what was, and he had earned that right by winning. Yamaha, I think learned that lesson and treated him with the respect he earned.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 4 2007, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. I dont think Honda ever intended for Hayden to be their #1.

2. Hayden disgruntled for lack of respect,knows he wont be resigning and give them the big .... YOU.Takes Pedro out in the last race of the season,ripping the title from his tiny little fingers.
1. Agree

2. Ridiculous! Come on man, this would never cross Hayden's mind. He's professional and not malicious. If it did, I would be the first guy to burn my Hayden T-shirt.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 5 2007, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. I hate googling so correct me if I'm worng but

2. wasn't pedrosa a Spanish Repsol sponsored World Champion when Rossi left Honda?
1. Why? I do it all the time.

2. This may explain why he has priority; (beside the fact that he is super talented.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 4 2007, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. I doubt they will spend too long tayloring a bike just for Nicky like they did last year, because now they have other means of championship contention.

2. Plus they will tell hayden that he wont be at the front till he stops riding the 800 like a 990.................they have a point!
1. Disagree with your assumption.

2. Really? Maybe that's Melandri's problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Apr 5 2007, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2. Ridiculous! Come on man, this would never cross Hayden's mind. He's professional and not malicious. If it did, I would be the first guy to burn my Hayden T-shirt.

totaly agree, hayden is a pro and a nice bloke and if he ever took anybody out i would bet my morgage it was an accident.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 5 2007, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Instead they have the mini factory Ducati kicking assshowing them how engines should be buildt
Sweet. I love it.

Don't negelct the fact that Dani is a popular icon in Spain and having a Spanish world champion backed by a Spanish sponsor would be a dream move for the Spanish owned Dorna.
So Honda wants to take advantage of Dani as much as they can.

As we all know, HRC planned for Dani to be the main rider. He's been a 1st year race winner in every class he's raced so HRC expected (and got) the same in MotoGP.
Now I know I'll catch some .... for this but I highly doubt that HRC expected Hayden to be in the hunt for title. I base that on HRC giving him EVO delevopment duties last season. Now I realize that testing/developing is a year round process but not on such a grand scale as Nicky was handed in a totally different bike from what was a proven and VERY effective design. Why would HRC have Nicky develope a bike that, as we all have seen this season, was being built with Dani in mind if they expected or knew he would be in the chase?
Bottom Line? HRC never expected (from day 1) Hayden to be a winner. They could see it in his riding style although it was somewhat effective on a SBK. As it was mentioned earlier Hayden built a following here in the US and they "rewarded" his AMA title with a MotoGP ride to sell bikes here and Nicky's fan base would bring sales to Honda's RR lineup.
Honda wants to win, winning sells bikes. They could care less who they use to do it. 1 title or 5 they want to win and lets face the facts that have up to this point been true. Nicky is not a winner and Dani has already proven he can win with 66% of Nicky's race win total in just one season.
Again, Honda wants to win.

I am not a fan of Hayden but I highly doubt he would ever and I mean ever take another rider out on purpose.

SS

Hayden should first start beating his own teammate before he can expect Honda to do anything special for him. Him winning the championship was an accident (well you can blame or give thanks to it on Rossi's crash during the last race, on Michelin's crappy tires or the unreliable Yamaha). The problem with Nicky is that he is a slow learner (afterall he is a farm boy) It took him 4 seasons to learn how to ride 211 well. Now trhat they have changed the bike on him, is right back to where he truly belongs -- the middle of the pack.

Just to be a deuche bag, I hope he wins the next race.
It sure is fun debating him on here! Haha

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Apr 5 2007, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Him winning the championship was an accident (well you can blame or give thanks to it on Rossi's crash during the last race, on Michelin's crappy tires or the unreliable Yamaha).
Uhm? Ah, forget it....

I'm on vacation.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Apr 5 2007, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden should first start beating his own teammate before he can expect Honda to do anything special for him. Him winning the championship was an accident (well you can blame or give thanks to it on Rossi's crash during the last race, on Michelin's crappy tires or the unreliable Yamaha). The problem with Nicky is that he is a slow learner (afterall he is a farm boy) It took him 4 seasons to learn how to ride 211 well. Now trhat they have changed the bike on him, is right back to where he truly belongs -- the middle of the pack.

Biaggi
Capirossi
Gibernau
Barros
Checa
Melandri
Edwards
Mccoy
Kato
Chili
What does Nicky have that none of these guys have. I dont even have to answer,you know.
If Nick is a slow learner,these guys must be flat out .........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Apr 5 2007, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Uhm? Ah, forget it....

I'm on vacation.



Have a nice trip and good skiing.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CaptainSnow @ Apr 5 2007, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Just to be a deuche bag, I hope he wins the next race.
It sure is fun debating him on here! Haha

THAT would be hillarious. If hayden win the next race the discussion would turn very interesting. Almost as I would hope for that my self.
But I won't put my money on it.

I honestly don't think Dani is as great as people are making him out to be. In Qatar it was highlighted just what an early braker he is, and thats one of the biggest disadvantages you can have on a MotoGP bike. He's fine for going quickly, but when it comes to overtaking and staying ahead, thats a problem.