Does Rossi still have a chance?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 20 2007, 05:34 AM) [snapback]85781[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This is one good reason why your credibility is incredible. (What a stupid thing to say).


I agree. On current form Hayden may well win races this year, and I seem to recall that he is contracted to the Honda factory team for 2008. I think the factory Honda is likely to be very fast next year, not least because they will pour in massive resources after their loss of face this year. They also seem to have finally realised that it is a good idea to prepare bikes for both their riders.

Unless they can turn the Yam into a winning machine again, and CS scores a couple of DNF's for the remainder, I think not.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 20 2007, 05:34 AM) [snapback]85781[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This is one good reason why your credibility is incredible. (What a stupid thing to say).


Although Antfans comment seems outrageous, I suspect that it will prove true. Nicky is a great rider, but not one of the top 5 currently ,in my opinion. He will probably leave motogp within 4 years, and I doubt he can win another 6 races , let alone 10 or 11, that Stoner may well compile this year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alex29 @ Aug 20 2007, 12:51 AM) [snapback]85785[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rd18 is when its over......... Never say Never with Rossi....

It has nothing to do with Rossi at this point. He could win every remaining race and Stoner could crash out of one, and still not win the championship.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 12:19 AM) [snapback]85798[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Although Antfans comment seems outrageous, I suspect that it will prove true. Nicky is a great rider, but not one of the top 5 currently ,in my opinion. .

What an insightful opinion. (sarcasm) He's the current champ. He's podiumed three of the last four races, struggled on what most agreed was a ...... bike all year. (Probably would have at Laguna had Casey not missed the apex, listen to what the commentator said with four laps to go about the incident). He was the top Michelin twice (since most agree the tire has decided many results, can we apply this to Hayden when he out performs others on the same tire?--(Ie Rossi/Pedrosa)
He has beat his teammate who many thought would be the heir apparent, praising him as if he had already won the championship when he came up (and they are still singing his praises). Hayden kicks his ... whenever it has been revealed that he has received equal (not better) equipment to Pedrosa, and you have concluded that Hayden is not in the "top five"? Well I guess we all have a right to a wrong opinion.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 08:19 AM) [snapback]85798[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Although Antfans comment seems outrageous, I suspect that it will prove true. Nicky is a great rider, but not one of the top 5 currently ,in my opinion. He will probably leave motogp within 4 years, and I doubt he can win another 6 races , let alone 10 or 11, that Stoner may well compile this year.

This is nonsense, Nicky is without doubt in the top 5 and is now at last being given the opportunity to prove it. 3 podiums in the last 4 races is it, I'm guessing without checking?

Stoner is without doubt the class of the year, the lesser placings quite a lottery, but Nicky is starting to show how he earnt that coveted number 1 plate. Good to see him at the sharp end again.

Jeez, you guys get upset easily.

ok, I,ll spell it out for you...........riders better than Nicky........

Stoner duh
Rossi
Pedrosa
Hopkins
Melandri
Vermeulin

and possibly others.

Nicky took 4 years to have a good year while being on the best bike in the best team on the best tyres and only won because Rossi had much bad luck.
However he was world champion and not undeserved. That still doesn,t make him the best rider. So, he beat Pedrosa in one or two races. Thats still not enough. Try to be impartial fellas!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 09:42 AM) [snapback]85813[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Jeez, you guys get upset easily.

Upset? Why upset, I'm not upset!!!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 09:42 AM) [snapback]85813[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
ok, I,ll spell it out for you...........riders better than Nicky........

Stoner duh
Rossi
Pedrosa
Hopkins
Melandri
Vermeulin

and possibly others.

Nicky took 4 years to have a good year while being on the best bike in the best team on the best tyres and only won because Rossi had much bad luck.
However he was world champion and not undeserved. That still doesn,t make him the best rider. So, he beat Pedrosa in one or two races. Thats still not enough. Try to be impartial fellas!

Stoner.....sure, this year
Rossi.....debatable
Pedrosa......results speak
Hopper.......I agree, and getting stronger
Melandri.....Oh come on!
CV.........great on his day.

Possible others........such as?

Nicky is a huge talent, is reigning world champ, and has had a bad year for whatever reason. Please don't start the "He only won because of Vale's bad luck" thing all over again, or you will have to state why 4 others had all the bad luck too! Don't let us forget who also suffered bad luck, who got wiped out by his team mate, who was at a points defecit going into the last round. When Rossi threw it down the road in the final round that does not mean he was unlucky not to win the title, it means he 'crashed', simple. By your definition of bad luck, then surely Crashey Stoner is the true 2006 World Champ!

........and are you outrageous enough to suggest that Nicky will win another 6 or 7 gps??

As others have said previously Bayliss led more laps than Nicky last year and only ran in one!
PS> I would add Bayliss to the list of riders better than Nicky. (Don,t choke on your cornflakes! I,m winding you up. But I still think its true)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]85818[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
........and are you outrageous enough to suggest that Nicky will win another 6 or 7 gps??

Are you outrageous enough to suggest Melandri will?

Or for that matter, Rossi?



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]85818[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
(Don,t choke on your cornflakes! I,m winding you up. But I still think its true)

Now that is what you call a wind up!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 01:42 AM) [snapback]85813[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Jeez, you guys get upset easily.

ok, I,ll spell it out for you...........riders better than Nicky........

Stoner duh
Rossi
Pedrosa
Hopkins
Melandri
Vermeulin

and possibly others.

Nicky took 4 years to have a good year while being on the best bike in the best team on the best tyres and only won because Rossi had much bad luck.
However he was world champion and not undeserved. That still doesn,t make him the best rider. So, he beat Pedrosa in one or two races. Thats still not enough. Try to be impartial fellas!

I'll play along because at the moment I have the time. But I guess I'll never convince people like you who chalk up championships to luck. Well in that case I declare for people like you (only), all of Rossies championships were won by luck, nothing more!!!!

I guess I can make a list too and say all these guys are better than Rossi or Pedrosa or anybody without any real rhyme or reason. Hell I could make the case that Guintoli is better than all of your guys on your list, but just hasn't been given the equipment. Or I guess one could argue that Rossi only won his championships because he was consistently on the best package.

I guess all those guys on the list had bad luck too last year not just Rossi according to you. Because he happen to beat all of the rest on your list consistently. So I recon you are of the camp that he didn't have any mechanical disadvantages last year either. Lets assume for a moment that he had the same equipment that his teammate did. Well it sure seems like he out performed him anyway.

Look, the only two we can really sort of compare from your list are Pedrosa and Hayden. And the fact is Hayden beat him, therefore he is a better rider. And according to your list he would make the top five. Unless you define "better rider" by your gut feeling. Then I can't really argue with that. If that were the case, then I would say Travis Pastrana is the top current rider, and would smoke anybody in GP if he were in the series.

But to put Vermuelen on the list, a guy who didn't even win a championship when he was in WSBK, seems a bit much. Or maybe he just had bad luck.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 01:53 AM) [snapback]85818[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
........and are you outrageous enough to suggest that Nicky will win another 6 or 7 gps??

As others have said previously Bayliss led more laps than Nicky last year and only ran in one!


It would have been "outrageous" to suggest in 06 that Stoner would be handing it to Rossi and have clocked 7 wins. But its happened. I guess it only seems "outrageous" when your narrow mindedness blurs future possibility.

If laps led won races, Stoner would have won a race last year.

If we are gonna throw in riders from other series, then I stand by my Pastrana is the best rider in the world and nobody even comes close.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 20 2007, 10:38 AM) [snapback]85821[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
If we are gonna throw in riders from other series, then I stand by my Pastrana is the best rider in the world and nobody even comes close.

Travis is the true God, all the others mere disciples!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Burky @ Aug 20 2007, 02:46 AM) [snapback]85823[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Travis is the true God, all the others mere disciples!!!!!

Amen brother.

Dude, its 3 am. I should be asleep.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 20 2007, 11:06 AM) [snapback]85826[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Amen brother.

Dude, its 3 am. I should be asleep.

Yeah, and Guintoli is without doubt the 2nd best rider on the grid!!!

[quote name='Racejumkie' date='Aug 20 2007, 09:38 AM' post='85821']
Look, the only two we can really sort of compare from your list are Pedrosa and Hayden. And the fact is Hayden beat him, therefore he is a better rider. And according to your list he would make the top five. Unless you define "better rider" by your gut feeling. Then I can't really argue with that. If that were the case, then I would say Travis Pastrana is the top current rider, and would smoke anybody in GP if he were in the series.
quote]

Not only did Hayden not have the best Honda last year, I am beginning to suspect the Honda was not the best bike. I suspect as has been the case this year that the 2006 Ducati was intrinsically a faster bike.

I am under no doubt that Rossi is easily the best rider around, but he's been hindered by having such a lesser bike to that of Stoner.

I'm sure he's enjoyed the Yamaha challenge since he's been there, must really push him to not have the best machine on the grid. But he must be getting sick of tracks like Brno where horse-power counts for so much and the Ducati has a major advantage over his Yamaha and all the other bikes.

I reckon if Rossi were on a Ducati as well, the table would look very differently.

I reckon Stoner would still win the title if he and Rossi swapped points tallies now.

im afraid the <u>only</u> way rossi can win the championship is if stoner sits out the rest of the season and that is very unlikly. i dont want to admit it but look at the facts.
all i will say is all things considered he is still great to finish second again, 5 wins and 3 seconds is a fantastic achievement imo.

[quote name='Olivavu' date='Aug 20 2007, 11:13 AM' post='85865']
I reckon if Rossi were on a Ducati as well, the table would look very differently.

/quote]
Rossi would obviously beat Stoner easily if they swapped bikes and tyres as they are at this point in time. I think it would be more interesting if they were both on the current Ducati, as the Ducati seems to particularly suit Stoner's riding style and questions about Rossi's focus and desire are becoming legitimate at this stage of his career. I think it would be at least close.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bunyip @ Aug 20 2007, 01:42 AM) [snapback]85813[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
ok, I,ll spell it out for you...........riders better than Nicky........

Stoner duh
Rossi
Pedrosa
Hopkins
Melandri
Vermeulin

try to be impartial fellas!


Stoner - probably. definitely statistically better after this year
Rossi - can't argue with that one
Pedrosa - debatable
Hopkins - he should be, but he's not
Melandri - debatable
Vermeulen - during the hurricane season maybe?

Your overlooking something very important; Qualifying. Nicky was the best qualifier in the Honda stable on the 990, which means when you give him sticky tires and turn him loose, his speed is beyond reproach. Unfortunately, he can't manage tires (if Michelin could make him a tire that didn't fail he'd win everything, sound familiar?). But he's been working on getting the back wheel in for several years now, and he can ham fist the right grip whenever he wants b/c TC will handle the rest.

The 800's were supposed to be Nicky's downfall. If he gets a decent bike and the Michelins improve, he will turn some heads.

I hope I'm there with a camera when he spoon feeds Pedrobot some more humble pie next season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Olivavu @ Aug 20 2007, 09:13 PM) [snapback]85865[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I am under no doubt that Rossi is easily the best rider around, but he's been hindered by having such a lesser bike to that of Stoner.

I'm sure he's enjoyed the Yamaha challenge since he's been there, must really push him to not have the best machine on the grid. But he must be getting sick of tracks like Brno where horse-power counts for so much and the Ducati has a major advantage over his Yamaha and all the other bikes.

I reckon if Rossi were on a Ducati as well, the table would look very differently.

I reckon Stoner would still win the title if he and Rossi swapped points tallies now.


I thought that everyone considered that Brno wasn't one of the "Ducati" favouring tracks??? People on this forum had actually been anticipating a very close race over the last few weeks I thought??

I'm not going to debate the "what if's" of Vale & Casey swapping bikes.

All I'll say is that you need to remember that Rossi was given the opportunity to join Ducati & he chose to be with Yamaha instead... & now that has come back to bite him in a big way.

And on another note, why do so many people immediately assume that a rider who has so long been on machines shod with Michelin rubber (Vale), will automatically immediately take to a new both a new machine/tyre combination?

Yes it's worked for others in the past but it's also been a disaster in the past too! I'm not saying for one moment that Rossi isn't capable of it but there are no certainties of his success...

"Assumptions are the mother of all fckups" - Under Siege 2 movie.