This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

dirty racing? or just racing at it's best

was rossi's racing "dirty" at laguna?

  • yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • no

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Aug 3 2008, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well he was 16 seconds behind Rossi when he actually fell and Rossi instigated the break check/line change manouver into the last corner which could have easily taken both of them out so history is different than you remember.
I don't know what are u talking about, rossi never changed the line or neither did the brake check it was casey who went too hot into that corner so wake up and stop this nonsense.
 
I just watched the race again & at the same corner a few laps previous Casey had a wobble on the brakes. It wasn't anyone but his own fault.
 
I just watched the race again & at the same corner a few laps previous Casey had a wobble on the brakes. It wasn't anyone but his own fault.
 
3 duplicate posts!! I must have really meant it
<


I do find it hard to believe there are only 10 ......s on this forum, it feels like so many more
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Aug 2 2008, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are talking lot of crap about rossi driving out of control, let me tell you one thing if there was any one driving out of control in laguna seca that has to be casey stoner with him running wide couple of times on the straights while trying to overtake rosssiwhen he finally crashed he nearly took rossi with him as well.
You are actually making casey's point for him, although whether he should have bothered making the point is another question.

When he did crash he easily could have taken rossi with him but elected to put the bike down. When rossi made his mistake at the corkscrew, and if you want to claim it wasn't a mistake the only alternative is that it was dirty racing, he came out of the corner at a vector not enormously removed from 90 degrees and would have t-boned stoner if stoner had not taken rapid evasive action. In both situations it was of casey's volition that there was not a crash, although on the second occasion it was his mistake as he himself said.

I don't have an issue with anything other than the corkscrew incident, and nor should casey. As I said on another thread though casey has now laid the groundwork to offer valentino a similar choice later in the season ie accept my manouevre or crash and I trust you fans of close/hard racing will maintain a consistent attitude if he does so.
 
Rossi's corckscrew move was desperate and scrappy, but i think he maintained just enough control for it to be acceptable riding. However i can definitely see Stoner's side too, because He had to take avoiding action twice to stop Rossi colliding with him, and ultimately Rossi got ahead by overshooting a turn. The limit of acceptable or unnacceptable riding is something that should be discussed in the safetey meetings and fair play to Stoner for voicing his opinion, the most important thing is that the standards are consistently applied. Stoner and probably a few other people feel this is not the case though, but thats a different story.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Aug 3 2008, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi's corckscrew move was desperate and scrappy, but i think he maintained just enough control for it to be acceptable riding. However i can definitely see Stoner's side too, because He had to take avoiding action twice to stop Rossi colliding with him, and ultimately Rossi got ahead by overshooting a turn. The limit of acceptable or unnacceptable riding is something that should be discussed in the safetey meetings and fair play to Stoner for voicing his opinion, the most important thing is that the standards are consistently applied. Stoner and probably a few other people feel this is not the case though, but thats a different story.
This is actually my view also. I agree the corkscrew pass was a racing incident. I said in the race discussion thread that I agreed with mat mladin that rossi had won the race by an in general brilliant display of race craft and that I don't think stoner at this time has the tactical ability or even the patience to have performed similarly if the situations were reversed.

I believe that people are free to try to have it both ways if they want but that I can also point this out if I so wish. In my opinion each rider made one significant error in the race. The error made by one rider was apparently a further demonstration of his greatness, brilliance and general suitability for sainthood, as opposed to being evidence of moral and intellectual deficiency and general lack of talent in the case of the error made by the other rider
<
. In my opinion the different viewpoints held by some regarding the respective errors is more a reflection of the identity of the rider concerned rather than the nature of the errors.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Aug 3 2008, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are talking lot of crap about rossi driving out of control, let me tell you one thing if there was any one driving out of control in laguna seca that has to be casey stoner with him running wide couple of times on the straights while trying to overtake rosssi and when he finally crashed he nearly took rossi with him as well. If you don't like races like this you shouldn't be watching motogp or probably you just start watching motogp last year so you are not custom to see close and hard racing.No more stupid posts please, sit back and enjoy the rest of season.


No! .... you are wrong. ..... I allready told you what happened .... therefore you have merely added to the Rossifan fairytales
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Aug 3 2008, 10:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No! .... you are wrong. ..... I allready told you what happened .... therefore you have merely added to the Rossifan fairytales
<

Its not about Rossi fan thing,personnally i am fan of motogp before Rossi.If somebody tells me before season starts that you will have 17 races like laguna seca but Rossi will come 2nd in every race i will take that rather than stoner winning races by 10 seconds margin.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Aug 2 2008, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't know what are u talking about, rossi never changed the line or neither did the brake check it was casey who went too hot into that corner so wake up and stop this nonsense.

You are delusional. Rossi's entire race strategy was break checking. He could hardly deal with a power race. He was blocking hardcore. He clearly took the inside line at the last corner when Casey ran off track (and can do what he wants when in the lead) hit the brakes early to .... up Stoners drive out of the corner (excellent racecraft, kudos to Rossi), then shifted to an outside line (yes, even though the shift was less than the width of the bike it's a shift in a race of cm's) blocking Stoner from completing his braking along his commited line forcing Stoner to bail or SMASH INTO HIM (an early post by me claims he should have boinked Rossi into the gravel and since he didn't he now has to deal with the .... of having lost the mental game to Rossi). Too bad for Casey he was following too close and bailed (bad move in my opinion) and dropped the bike like a smuck but don't blame the runoff on him or say he almost took Rossi out there he was avoiding a certain collision instigated by Rossi no matter how subtle. He SHOULD have taken Rossi out that was the brinkmanship game being played. The corkscrew job was ...... and he should have T-boned him there also. Stoner wasn't going to go to the level of contacting Rossi but there was no other option if he wanted to win that race.
 
Whether Rossi was "blocking" or not is academic. It is the trailing rider's responsibility to find a safe way around. On more than one occasion Stoner purposely pushed Rossi wide left on the uphill before the corkscrew. In my opinion Stoner ran out of solutions to the Rossi problem. I am sure he will be ready for the Doctor next time around.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Aug 3 2008, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Whether Rossi was "blocking" or not is academic. It is the trailing rider's responsibility to find a safe way around. On more than one occasion Stoner purposely pushed Rossi wide left on the uphill before the corkscrew. In my opinion Stoner ran out of solutions to the Rossi problem. I am sure he will be ready for the Doctor next time around.
exactly, its not as if rossi has eyes in the back of his head
<
 
He has ears on the sides of his head though and he knew exactly where Stoner was. As I said, he was too close for sure.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Aug 4 2008, 02:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He has ears on the sides of his head though and he knew exactly where Stoner was. As I said, he was too close for sure.

You sound like you have ridden a motogp bike with another 18 or so behind you... while concentrating on changing gears, taking corners, braking + accelerating.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Aug 3 2008, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are delusional. Rossi's entire race strategy was break checking. He could hardly deal with a power race. He was blocking hardcore. He clearly took the inside line at the last corner when Casey ran off track (and can do what he wants when in the lead) hit the brakes early to .... up Stoners drive out of the corner (excellent racecraft, kudos to Rossi), then shifted to an outside line (yes, even though the shift was less than the width of the bike it's a shift in a race of cm's) blocking Stoner from completing his braking along his commited line forcing Stoner to bail or SMASH INTO HIM (an early post by me claims he should have boinked Rossi into the gravel and since he didn't he now has to deal with the .... of having lost the mental game to Rossi). Too bad for Casey he was following too close and bailed (bad move in my opinion) and dropped the bike like a smuck but don't blame the runoff on him or say he almost took Rossi out there he was avoiding a certain collision instigated by Rossi no matter how subtle. He SHOULD have taken Rossi out that was the brinkmanship game being played. The corkscrew job was ...... and he should have T-boned him there also. Stoner wasn't going to go to the level of contacting Rossi but there was no other option if he wanted to win that race.
Valentino did seem to want this race more, but this may not neccessarily be the case in future races. There is also a bloke called dani pedrosa who may be on an improved pneumatic engined honda after the break who would still have been in front of casey in the championship if casey had dnfed. Valentino may not rate him but casey does.

Anyway it was a great race, but casey was entitled to be a little miffed by the corkscrew incident in my view even if it was a mistake and was asking for the ground rules to be clarified as much as he was whinging.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Aug 4 2008, 02:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He has ears on the sides of his head though and he knew exactly where Stoner was. As I said, he was too close for sure.
how do you no what he new. you a mind reader ? no ! well neither is he

buy squeezing a little more brake than needed could have had the opposite effect and let stoner past, sure rossi may be able to hear he was behind him but theres no way he could no exactly where. the rider at the back has the advantage of seeing where the rider at the front is. remember these bike dont have mirrors
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Aug 4 2008, 10:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Valentino did seem to want this race more, but this may not neccessarily be the case in future races. There is also a bloke called dani pedrosa who may be on an improved pneumatic engined honda after the break who would still have been in front of casey in the championship if casey had dnfed. Valentino may not rate him but casey does.

Anyway it was a great race, but casey was entitled to be a little miffed by the corkscrew incident in my view even if it was a mistake and was asking for the ground rules to be clarified as much as he was whinging.
the corkscrew was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other imo.. they touched leading up to the corkscrew and casey was slightly behind through the corkscrew so he could have backed off if he thought it was that dangerous. there was a game of chicken going on in that race and we all loved watching it,, well most of us anyway
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 4 2008, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>they touched leading up to the corkscrew and casey was slightly behind through the corkscrew so he could have backed off if he thought it was that dangerous.
I have never been to laguna seca (unfortunately) and hence you have the advantage over me in the appreciation of the apparently complex topography of the corkscrew, and I have also only seen the lead-up to the corkscrew excursion once due to my inability to co-operate with the dorna site, for which purpose my excellent spelling ability avails me little
<
.

Sure if vale was offline going into the corkscrew due to casey having nudged him by placing the ducati in a position to which he was not entitled he has little (or no ) cause for complaint. Otherwise, I would interpret proceeding rapidly to the other side of the track to avoid colliding with vale as constituting backing off
<
.
 
man i just don't understand some folk who seem upset & are complaining about rossis tactics. to me this was racing which we have not seen likes of all that often since the 06 season. this is what i hope for every race! choppin & changin, bar bangin hair raising pass's! stoner complaining is no surprise really they all do it when their adrenalin level is shot through the roof. would you pefer that we had nice orderly processional racing with nice respectful passing? with perhaps a conginial wave of thanks? seems we've had plenty of that this season as well as last. i just hope stoner learns & can dish it out to rossi in copious amounts. pedrosa needs to learn this as well. i pray to the 2 wheeled gods for every race to be this bloody good! so shut your whining complaining gobs & enjoy it!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Aug 4 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have never been to laguna seca (unfortunately) and hence you have the advantage over me in the appreciation of the apparently complex topography of the corkscrew, and I have also only seen the lead-up to the corkscrew excursion once due to my inability to co-operate with the dorna site, for which purpose my excellent spelling ability avails me little
<
.

Sure if vale was offline going into the corkscrew due to casey having nudged him by placing the ducati in a position to which he was not entitled he has little (or no ) cause for complaint. Otherwise, I would interpret proceeding rapidly to the other side of the track to avoid colliding with vale as constituting backing off
<
.

I don't know how much the touch really had to say, but at least it did ignite Rossi. I suspect that his offline were more due too speed into the lefthander rather than the touch.
My view on most of those very hard passes (ref. Gibernau) is that they are really very ineffective in terms of speed and unless the other rider are taken totally by surprice there are often a much more effective way to handle them and that is to back off. As complex as the corkscew is I can't say 100% that it would work there but at least Gibernau's half harted attempt to block were totally useless and a school example of bad race craft. In a dog fight like that you either take a totally defensive line ( at the risk of the other comming around) or you see/guess the other are comming in hot and back off just enough to get a much better drive out of the turn. Stoner were behind in the lefthander and seing Rossi's line he should have seen that rossi were in to hot and instead of backing off he practically drove himself into the situation where he had to avoid the collition. Again it's a bit more complex with the corkscrew but I wonder what would have happened if he backed off just enough to let rossi by on his erratic line off the dirt, at the same time as stoner was on power again. Would that move be a better one?
 

Recent Discussions