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Cheating

Kropotkin said:
I spent many hours investigating this and spoken to engineers, team managers, and officials. People have promised to show me proof, but never have. The most credible claim I have heard is that the bike is a little over the noise limit. Even then, I have seen no proof.



Now, due to the surprising and frankly rather disappointing fact that there only 24 hours in a day, and spending, say, 5 of them sleeping might be nice, I have to prioritize my activities. The research I have done so far is at a dead end. I'm sure if I dedicated myself to researching cheating in Moto2, I could turn up a few irregularities and minor infractions. What I have found so far leads me to believe that any cheating that is going on is not having any material effect on the results. So I am not prepared to waste any more time on this until new facts force me to change my mind. Riders bitching about cheating is not 'new facts' I have been listening to that all year.



If my decision means you believe I am nothing more than a shill for Dorna, fine. I would point out to you that I was the first person to bother to investigate this issue. I clearly can't convince anyone that my belief is based on the evidence I have seen so far, so I shall stop bothering to try. From now on, it's snide comments only.
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Fair enough.
<




I never said you were a shill. My suspicion was that you had perhaps become a little too cozy with the establishment.... Didn't mean to offend, although I suppose a bit of needle was implied.



Carry on!



But I still want you to ask Redding what he was going on about!



-Nerd
 
Surely having a minimum weight limit including rider would make it easier to spot cheats (if any) in this way. As without a 10% power to weight ratio between some bikes, the acceleration would be much more even, and "outliers" would stand out more.
 
I do not buy the explanation for Marquez's superior acceleration is down to gearing/getting on the gas early/breaking later.

- This does not make any logical sense at all.



No other team has the funds to mate suitable gearing for the track.

-Marquez is not the latest of the late breakers and he is not Casey Stoner -picking the bike up earliest.





My jump into the cheating fray is simple. He has HRC support in moto2.



I believe that his bike has been made to behave as close as possible to the RC213V. This would ensure that jump to Motogp wasn't such a huge transition.



After all this is about entertainment.

-It was mandated that Rossi was going to be back on the Yamaha

-Marquez absolutely had to be the champion this year.
 
Duc999 said:
I do not buy the explanation for Marquez's superior acceleration is down to gearing/getting on the gas early/breaking later.

- This does not make any logical sense at all.
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I thought that the explanation was that he was carrying greater cornering speed, which meant that he entered the straight at higher RPMs which meant that he progressed through the power band quicker.
 
Fair enuf Krops. U honestly have tried. Btw, i enjoy ur colloquialism, ur thick skin makes interaction quite delightful.



My confirmation bias leads me to suspect there has been cheating by Marc's team. It seems neither of us knows the actual truth.



Btw, here is a bit more confirmation bias talking, the league plays favorites (i guess u dont believe this either since u have never been able to prove it). But i think it wouldnt be in the league's best interest to really put scrutiny to Marc given: the sudden change in rookie rule (yeah yeah, coincidental), turn blind eye in numerous on track incidents (ok ok, RD have always been blind), HRC's new goldenboy for the premiere category (horsetrading, is it that hard to believe), Dornas promotion of the new protagonist, after their old one leaves in glory of course. Im sure it all adds up to the league really looking under the hood of Marquez.
 
I'm not a Marquez fanboy, but Jumkie's anti-Marquez furor is hilarious. Probably has to redirect his disdain somewhere since it's been awhile since Pedrosa has done anything to draw his ire.



I'm not sure why the spotlight is pointed at Marquez? If we are going to accuse people of cheating, why don't we go further back? Did the teams Rossi/Pedrosa/Lorenzo/any other sensation were in cheat during their times in the lower classes? If Smith is going to throw around accusations of cheating, it would be smart to have proof to back up your claims rather than to just stir the .....
 
Kropotkin said:
No. He has the best Suter. What does that have to do with cheating?
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Nothing.

It's to do with your assertions via comments re the Suter and the superiority of the Kalex, that MM has sort of chassis disadvantage.

 
Dr No said:
Nothing.

It's to do with your assertions via comments re the Suter and the superiority of the Kalex, that MM has sort of chassis disadvantage.
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Marquez has the best Suter. Clearly, he has a slight advantage over Luthi and Aegerter.
 
Kropotkin
338465

Marquez has the best Suter. Clearly, he has a slight advantage over Luthi and Aegerter.
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What are the differences between his Suter and the other Suters in moto2?

Also, referring further up the thread, I thought people were joking when they said that only Marquez had the money to choose different gear ratios for different tracks. Is this actually the case? Edit: Moto2 = fixed gear ratios. If so, that should advantage anyone who can carry higher speed through the corners as the gears cannot be suited to the track, and could be quite inappropriate ratios for certain tracks.
 
Jumkie
3383771354381720

Fair enuf Krops. U honestly have tried. Btw, i enjoy ur colloquialism, ur thick skin makes interaction quite delightful.

My confirmation bias leads me to suspect there has been cheating by Marc's team. It seems neither of us knows the actual truth.

Btw, here is a bit more confirmation bias talking, the league plays favorites (i guess u dont believe this either since u have never been able to prove it). But i think it wouldnt be in the league's best interest to really put scrutiny to Marc given: the sudden change in rookie rule (yeah yeah, coincidental), turn blind eye in numerous on track incidents (ok ok, RD have always been blind), HRC's new goldenboy for the premiere category (horsetrading, is it that hard to believe), Dornas promotion of the new protagonist, after their old one leaves in glory of course. Im sure it all adds up to the league really looking under the hood of Marquez.
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Is there manipulation in MotoGP? Of course. But it's only about 1% of what you suspect it is. Some things - like Rossi's move to Yamaha - don't need to be orchestrated, they happen of their own accord.
 
Frizzle
3385671354492483


I think that was Krops point. ;)
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And a lame one at that. Comparing the Duck to the Suter (and in particular, MM's Suter) is laaaazy...
 
Jum,


 


We are programmed from birth to comply and to never question authority.  It is most significant throughout the school years but then extends into the work place and church.  At every level of school, work and church there is someone who's job is to make those below them comply.  They to, have to comply whilst making others comply.  This compliance happens all the way up to government.  Obama has to comply to those that have authority over him.


 


So it is understandable that as soon as someone speaks out about authority the programmed response is for everyone to condemn them.  It is what we have been trained to do.  The percentage of the population that have resisted this programming is miniscule.  
 
 
Mental Anarchist
3385751354518270

 
Jum,
 
We are programmed from birth to comply and to never question authority.  It is most significant throughout the school years but then extends into the work place and church.  At every level of school, work and church there is someone who's job is to make those below them comply.  They to, have to comply whilst making others comply.  This compliance happens all the way up to government.  Obama has to comply to those that have authority over him.
 
So it is understandable that as soon as someone speaks out about authority the programmed response is for everyone to condemn them.  It is what we have been trained to do.  The percentage of the population that have resisted this programming is miniscule.  
 
 
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I don't think so. A quick look at most online forums or a listen into real life conversations shows that many people are prepared to speak out about authority, and many people will then support this speaking out. A quick look at newspaper site comments will reveal the same.

I don't think it's an indoctrinated tendency to support authority which is causing people to say that there's no obvious cheating by Marquez. It's a simple matter of the balance of facts and evidence.
 

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