Casey Stoner is Dr Who

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He already had the third bike on the grid this year, and wasn't dominating on it. I hope after all the debunking of Rossi's "myths" we do not begin another mythology with Stoner (or Lorenzo). MotoGP is too competitive nowadays for anybody to win on an inferior bike.





No, I meant something like the Ducati in 2007 -- however difficult to exploit some concrete tire/engine advantages were there, and Stoner surely exploited them very well, when no other could.



I suppose this comes down to how you feel about the rider/machine debate in the other topic. On the basis that the machine is more important than your logic holds, Stoner had the best bike in 07 because he could exploit its advantages, just like Rossi did in 04 (the other most recent example of an unfancied bike winning).



I think the massive difference between one rider and another with the same equipment shows just how much difference the rider can still make in GP, and contend that in both of the seasons i just mentioned the champion did so without the best bike, using their unique ability to exploit the advantages in the best way. Having said that, i wouldn't go as far as to say that the winning rider would necessarily have acheived more if they'd been riding the accepted superior bike because the benefits that they were able to exclusively exploit helped to seperate them from their competitors.
 
Yes, if by 'concrete technical advantage' you mean the 3rd or 4th best bike on the grid

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Good one.



But then again, Having a bike developed by Rossi for Rossi proved to be a "concrete technical advantage" for Lorenzo, so much so that Rossi had to leave that illogical situation. Now I can only dream that this unsuspecting anomaly will resurface at Ducati, because then Rossi developing it for himself would surely mean Nicky would win on it.
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Stoner is a product of his path into the euro centric world of MotoGP.



Stoner (and his family) has had to scrape together the resources and the opportunities to claw his way to the top. He has only twice been on factory equipment (KTM and Ducati) and has rarely if ever had a team hanging off of his every word looking to develop a bike just for him.



(I would argue that Ducati has probably done little to develop the bike in Stoner's direction but have rather develop the bike in the direction of Capirossi then Melandri then Hayden and now Rossi in the hope that someone else will be able to ride it but this is a different story and one argued for and against enough already.)



Stoners path is in stark contrast to the other alleged aliens and Spies. I do not need to go into the 'delivered on a platter' nature of the Spanish and Italian Aliens' path into the premier class but lets just say that none of them can remember the last time they rode a non factory bike.



So what does this mean? Well it means that Stoner has developed an ability to ride fast on a bike that is not developed or purposely set up for him. He has learned to be fast on equipment that is not the best on the grid. He has learned to not EXPECT to have the best of everything. He has learned to make the most of what he has got.



Does this make him more Alien? Not necessarily. Does it make his success more honest? I think so. Does it make me respect him more for having made it? Absolutely.



If I was a manufacturer and or a team manager Stoner is exactly the type of rider I would want on my bike as he would make me look better than I am and do it with less arrogance and less cost then the prima donnas that have had the silver spoon treatment all their life.



Well said.
 
Rossi's been on the Duc 30 minutes and these twats expect lap breaking times
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....... trolls
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But i do agree Stones is the only alien... from the planet weak minded little cry baby ..... ..... .....
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And how long has Stoner been on the Pedrosa-Spec Honda? Hmmm?
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Perhaps its a bit quiet here now in the off season, but possibly our most prolific current poster and forum "nanny", has made a few comments of quite epic proportions, that seem to have gone under the radar.



"The script is written in GP. Thats why i think that ranking is ......... Peeps look at raw standings and make conclusions. Put everybody on a Ducati, and u would get a better picture of who the "aliens" are, and i seriously doubt the other 3 supposed "aliens" would be in top 5. KRJR basically said what Biaggi & Melandri said, that is, its all like a reality show, the ignorant spectators think theyre seeing real drama while the producers write the script. Hav u ever sat with a casual spectator to watch a race? That how alot of peeps act here. Melandi also said, there are no "aliens" alluding to package. But i disagree, if anybody is an "alien" it Stoner only. I also doubt Pedro & Lorenzo would fair any better than Rossi did. But im convinced, u put Stoner on Yamaha and he'd make them look as silly as he did Pedro & Dovi. I know u disagree, but if Spies & Nicky traded bikes, i'd bet a year's paycheck u would see what Nicky is made of. Hes biggest crime was to honestly compete in a dishonest series. The dumb ....... tries so hard because he honestly thinks he has a chance."



...............and again............



" After having signed Melandri, a very good rider, Nicky showed that thier bike was ..... But they couldnt fully admit that because Stoner, the ONLY real "alien" in GP, masked the bikes flaws"







So there, you have it.............only one alien,; obviously the last of his race, alone , wandering the universe. For me, that spells out DR WHO, last of the Time-Lords. If that reference is too obscure for our american friends, please insert some eqivalent alien from Star Trek perhaps.



So, till now, the consencus has been that there have been 4 aliens, so how or why, does Jumkie make this outlandish claim? As a Stoner fan it sounds like music to my ears, but I still feel a bit uncomfortable about it. There is not enough evidence as yet.

I,m pretty sure I know where Jumkie is coming from though. If Stoner really IS that good , it makes Hayden look a lot better than his recent results would suggest. Now, I like Nicky quite a bit ( I wish he would lose that "thank the lord for my win" crap though), but I really don,t rank him up there with the top four (maybe Jumkie doesn,t either?).Where he fits into the scheme of things is hard to say. I doubt that he would beat Spies on the same bike, so I would put him somewhere from 6-10 in the field. But I should be talking about Stoner, and not Hayden. I suspect that, as Jumkie says, put all the riders on the Ducati and Stoner would cream them , with the bikes current configuration. However, put them all on a refined , sorted bike like the Yamaha , and I am not so sure.

So, does the ability to ride an imperfect bike faster than the other be the lone criteria for "Alien" status? Perhaps THAT is the relevant question?



There is no doubt in my mind , that the end of season test was some kind of epiphany. Here, was Rossi, the racing god, 9- time world champion, struggling to get his head around the bike that " self-rode" itself to a championship in 2007. Although, over the years, there has been a gradual (but almost reluctant) recognition , that Stoner is a bloody talented rider, it has still been galling for a Stoner fan to constantly hear (read) the almost endless colourfull descriptions of Caseys supposed character flaws and failings as a bike rider. The self-riding Ducati, the unfairly powerful and superfast Ducati, the imaginary wrist injury, the imaginary "sore tummy" (as his detractors on this forum work hard at the most belittling language), his ungratious oubursts over the corkscrew pass (that went very close to punting Stoner into the wall) etc etc. We Stoner fans have put up with this inaccurate crap for years, and perhaps there is finally some vindication. Perhaps a touch of schadenfreude, as Michael has said, in Rossi,s struggle. One of the big issues with Stoners riding has been his high crash rate. Well, that happens when you believe you should be at the front, but your machine ( or tyres) is not competitive, and you ride beyond what is possible. Sure, you might say that the rider should accept the bikes limitations and accept a lower result. But , also remember, that these guys are ultracompetitive, and having been at the front before, expect to be there all the time. This is nothing new. Look at what happened to Hopkins, and also Vermeulin on that underperforming kwaka superbike..............crashes.



So................., I like what Jumkie is saying ( and Jumkie deserves special recognition for his tireless rebuttal of Stoner- myths, perpetuated largely by the "yellow army") , but it is a big call to name Stoner as the ONLY alien. We have to wait for 2011 to see the final evidence. Casey dominating Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Rossi , will be the required scenario. I,m not full convinced just yet. But I wouln,t stake my life on it not happening either.
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Jumkie should win an award for the most MOTO post of the last 4 seasons. Not an insult to Jumkie, but to all of the people who refuse to acknowledge the obvious.



It is obvious that no one (not even Rossi) can catch Stoner when he's on his game. It's not fun to admit the obvious if you are a Rossi fan. It's not fun to admit the obvious if you are a marketing company who derives profit from Rossi's dominance of the sport. I'm sure it was equally painful for King Kenny fans to admit that Spencer was uncatchable in his day or for Rainey/Schwantz fans to admit that Doohan could not be caught when he was on his game during the early 90s. Life is not always fun, and its tragically uncomplicated regardless of how much extraneous drama we attempt to add. Stoner is by far the fastest rider on the grid and only Stoner can stop Stoner. I think it's time that we all admit the obvious and get it over with.



Fortunately for fans of other riders, Stoner is quite good at biting-the-hand-that-feeds-him or other cliches that describe his vindictive, anti-establishment behavior. Stoner thinks he's combating the establishment, but he's merely fueling the euro-centric furnace that powers MotoGP. Mladin did the same thing in the AMA. He merely fueled the anti-Mladin establishment who ultimately married good rules with Mladin-hate and created a sport that facilitated his retirement.



I only lament that 24L-26L 990s no longer exist. I suspect we would be treated to a far more impressive display of speed than what the current 800s offer. I feel the same way about Nicky and two strokes. No offense to Spaniards, but the windmill-charging primadonnas who hail from the Iberian peninsula are not really fit to sit at the table of Italian, British, American, and Australian greats. Spanish rider ascension is directly attributable to their acquisition of MotoGP's commercial rights and the rise of electronic rider aids. I suspect that Lorenzo is different, but alas, we well never know as long as the socially-maladjusted, rider-phobic technocrats at the MSMA continue to write the rulebook.



This post was sponsored by cultural stereotypes, compound adjectives, and THE OBVIOUS.
 
Jumkie should win an award for the most MOTO post of the last 4 seasons. Not an insult to Jumkie, but to all of the people who refuse to acknowledge the obvious.



It is obvious that no one (not even Rossi) can catch Stoner when he's on his game. It's not fun to admit the obvious if you are a Rossi fan. It's not fun to admit the obvious if you are a marketing company who derives profit from Rossi's dominance of the sport. I'm sure it was equally painful for King Kenny fans to admit that Spencer was uncatchable in his day or for Rainey/Schwantz fans to admit that Doohan could not be caught when he was on his game during the early 90s. Life is not always fun, and its tragically uncomplicated regardless of how much extraneous drama we attempt to add. Stoner is by far the fastest rider on the grid and only Stoner can stop Stoner. I think it's time that we all admit the obvious and get it over with.



Fortunately for fans of other riders, Stoner is quite good at biting-the-hand-that-feeds-him or other cliches that describe his vindictive, anti-establishment behavior. Stoner thinks he's combating the establishment, but he's merely fueling the euro-centric furnace that powers MotoGP. Mladin did the same thing in the AMA. He merely fueled the anti-Mladin establishment who ultimately married good rules with Mladin-hate and created a sport that facilitated his retirement.



I only lament that 24L-26L 990s no longer exist. I suspect we would be treated to a far more impressive display of speed than what the current 800s offer. I feel the same way about Nicky and two strokes. No offense to Spaniards, but the windmill-charging primadonnas who hail from the Iberian peninsula are not really fit to sit at the table of Italian, British, American, and Australian greats. Spanish rider ascension is directly attributable to their acquisition of MotoGP's commercial rights and the rise of electronic rider aids. I suspect that Lorenzo is different, but alas, we well never know as long as the socially-maladjusted, rider-phobic technocrats at the MSMA continue to write the rulebook.



This post was sponsored by cultural stereotypes, compound adjectives, and THE OBVIOUS.

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Great post Lex. Not sure why, but you've been suspiciously absent from the GP boards lately.



Anyway, I just finished watching the 44th running of the Macau GP. Its like a Isle of Man, a regular GP, and a cage fight, all in one. I know most on here are one trick ponies and never watch Wsbk, national series, and TTs, but I enjoyed the race so much that I decided to share the link on this board, knowing damn well that peeps never visit the superbike board. Poor .......s, they don't know what they are missing.
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Jumkie should win an award for the most MOTO post of the last 4 seasons. Not an insult to Jumkie, but to all of the people who refuse to acknowledge the obvious.



It is obvious that no one (not even Rossi) can catch Stoner when he's on his game. It's not fun to admit the obvious if you are a Rossi fan. It's not fun to admit the obvious if you are a marketing company who derives profit from Rossi's dominance of the sport. I'm sure it was equally painful for King Kenny fans to admit that Spencer was uncatchable in his day or for Rainey/Schwantz fans to admit that Doohan could not be caught when he was on his game during the early 90s. Life is not always fun, and its tragically uncomplicated regardless of how much extraneous drama we attempt to add. Stoner is by far the fastest rider on the grid and only Stoner can stop Stoner. I think it's time that we all admit the obvious and get it over with.



Fortunately for fans of other riders, Stoner is quite good at biting-the-hand-that-feeds-him or other cliches that describe his vindictive, anti-establishment behavior. Stoner thinks he's combating the establishment, but he's merely fueling the euro-centric furnace that powers MotoGP. Mladin did the same thing in the AMA. He merely fueled the anti-Mladin establishment who ultimately married good rules with Mladin-hate and created a sport that facilitated his retirement.



I only lament that 24L-26L 990s no longer exist. I suspect we would be treated to a far more impressive display of speed than what the current 800s offer. I feel the same way about Nicky and two strokes. No offense to Spaniards, but the windmill-charging primadonnas who hail from the Iberian peninsula are not really fit to sit at the table of Italian, British, American, and Australian greats. Spanish rider ascension is directly attributable to their acquisition of MotoGP's commercial rights and the rise of electronic rider aids. I suspect that Lorenzo is different, but alas, we well never know as long as the socially-maladjusted, rider-phobic technocrats at the MSMA continue to write the rulebook.



This post was sponsored by cultural stereotypes, compound adjectives, and THE OBVIOUS.





Where is your evidence for this? I thought his outspoken honesty was a breath of fresh air. He has made negative statements in the heat of the moment, but so has Rossi ( re Elias pass etc).



In some respects , I see evidence of him taking the mantle of " elder statesman' as far as speaking about safety issues. Hindsight (Tomizawa crash) shows that his earlier comments regarding removing the gravel ( replaced with astroturf) from proximity of corners reduced the " fear factor" and thus actually endangered riders even more. At the time he got some flak for that statement . Rossi showed no interest in this issue initially, but ended up backing Stoner. I would have thought taking the lead on safety issues would have been seen as supporting the establishment in the long run.



Stoner , also has a history of not only not impeding his team-mates, but actually doing what he can to help. When Capirossi, Melandri and later Hayden struggled on the Ducati, he was known to offer helpful advice ; quite the opposite to the actions taken by Rossi and Pedrosa to their respective team-mates. Ask Jumkie what Hayden has told him about Stoner. It is in fact Stoners treatment of Hayden that has made Jumkie , Stoners greatest defender ( tell me if I am wrong Jumks)



Also- Jumkie, you think my ranking of Hayden is incorrect. Please tell me where you rank Hayden and why. I know the 800 Honda was designed around Pedrosa, but I think Hayden was too far behind Pedrosa to rank him anwhere near him.
 
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So there, you have it.............only one alien,; obviously the last of his race, alone , wandering the universe. For me, that spells out DR WHO, last of the Time-Lords.

Does this mean he will ride for 9 different teams ( that number again) since this was the number of re-incarnations originally available to Dr Who ( I don't think they envisaged the series would still going 45 odd years later)?



My view is pretty much as that of others . He needs to put another season together on a bike other than a 2007 ducati on 2007 hard bridgestones to demonstrate that season was not due to some kind of strange and unique synergy; his dnf rate other than 2007 (and 2009 although his dns rate wasn't so good) has not been acceptable. One explanation for his dnf rate is him being on bikes not really capable of winning other than in 2007, for which proposition the valencia test provided some preliminary evidence; he looks likely to be on a good enough bike next year. The development angle is the other question, although I guess your topic may just be about his pure speed. Again his apparent failure to develop the ducati may be down to ducati and even possibly inherent design flaws; next year will again be revelatory although it looks likely that valentino will have more resources and possibly a higher level of input.



Rossi in his early 20s was ungodly fast though, and lorenzo currently also looks to be so. (EDIT On reflection the number 9 coming into the parallel may mean it is valentino who is Dr Who, particularly since he is already called the doctor
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Bun, i think u got stuck on one line in Lex's take. Plus i think Lex meant it as a compliment to Stoner. (vendictive is score settling, and God knows the establishment have thrown many darts at Casey).



I rank Hayden top 5 in no particular order.. If they wer put on a spec bike, i think it would b a toss up after Stoner. How about we put all the guys on a CBR 1000 and say, race.
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anti-establishment behavior.



Thats just a cultural thing with Aussie's. The place started of "them and us", and its still like that today. Even those that come here voluntarily produce ciblings that are more anti-establishiment than their elders, and it grows as generations pass. Stoner is just an example of that, and yes its something that many cultures don't get. Its not so important these days but up to say the mid 1900's Australian's really had to live somewhat independently of "other folk", ..... try equating that to say a Brit. or a european who has been bred to live in a sea of other humans, Its feasible in those cultures to get folk who have slept in there bed every night of their life with another unknown, or unrelated,) human less than 20 metres from them
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....... for many Aussie's this is an alien concept ...... and its part of why Aussie's exhibit something of an "anti-establishment" behaviour.
 
Where is your evidence for this?



You need evidence?



How about his refusal to measure his words when responding to loaded questions from the Italian or Spanish press? How about his rebuke of corporate marketing work despite the fact he is an employee of Ducati and thus Marlboro Europe? How about him picking a fight with the nation of Britain over some misbehaved hooligans? What about Stoner firing back at Marlboro after Arrivabene said some patently stupid things about Stoner during Stoner's hiatus?



Everything about Stoner is anti-establishment and he goes out of his way to mince words with anyone who takes a cheap shot at him. This actions are the mark of a person who is unimpressed by the MotoGP establishment (mainly Europeans at Dorna, European sponsors, and the Italian and Spanish press). His dismissive words match his actions. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it is a defining characteristic of who he is, and the antagonism he receives from the establishment is a major footnote in his career.



Nobody buys the but-he's-just-so-misunderstood argument. Of course he is misunderstood by Europeans, but what has that got to do with him going after the people who antagonize him? Nothing! He is both misunderstood and he is a vindictive, anti-estabilishment Aussie who prefers home and the arms of his lovely wife to the plastic, manufactured, self-congratulatory pomp-and-circumstance of MotoGP, a European sport. I don't disagree with his decision, but that doesn't make him any less anti-establishment.



Do you really need me to tell you these things? Stoner has said most of this stuff himself.
 
Thats a pretty harsh assessment there Lex!

Your comments are at the critical end of the spectrum. Were you at those press-conferences, or perhaps read the transcript out of context? I,d really like a true first hand take on this. Kropotkin?



I will concede that Casey is not an expert in diplomacy, but making the quantum leap to calling him vindictive and openly anti-establishment is a step too far, in my opinion. Responding to cheap shots - disgraceful
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I don,t see any anti-establishment behaviour, but I do see a defensiveness in him . Much as Rossi created Gibernau the pariah, the same thing happened to Stoner when he had the audacity to challenge Rossi for the championship. Adding to this was the negative conjecture about Stoners scaphoid injury and subsequent lactose-intolerance, to the degree that Rossi -fans continuously vent derogatory comments about him. (Curve is an example of this). Its little wonder that Casey has probably developed a persecution complex and is quite defensive when discussing many things with the media. Then add stupid comments from Rossi about him not trying hard enough on the bike- is it not a surprise that he gets irate and defensive. You want to call it vindictiveness. I think youve got it wrong and I don,t think you want to change an opinion that it seems you decided on quite a while ago.



I would be more inclined to value the comments of journalists that have dealt with him directly. From what I have read, he is on most occasions easy to get on with. If Kropotkin says otherwise ,I will have to review my opinion. If he refutes your view, you should do the same.
 
You need evidence?



How about his refusal to measure his words when responding to loaded questions from the Italian or Spanish press? How about his rebuke of corporate marketing work despite the fact he is an employee of Ducati and thus Marlboro Europe? How about him picking a fight with the nation of Britain over some misbehaved hooligans? What about Stoner firing back at Marlboro after Arrivabene said some patently stupid things about Stoner during Stoner's hiatus?



Everything about Stoner is anti-establishment and he goes out of his way to mince words with anyone who takes a cheap shot at him. This actions are the mark of a person who is unimpressed by the MotoGP establishment (mainly Europeans at Dorna, European sponsors, and the Italian and Spanish press). His dismissive words match his actions. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it is a defining characteristic of who he is, and the antagonism he receives from the establishment is a major footnote in his career.



Nobody buys the but-he's-just-so-misunderstood argument. Of course he is misunderstood by Europeans, but what has that got to do with him going after the people who antagonize him? Nothing! He is both misunderstood and he is a vindictive, anti-estabilishment Aussie who prefers home and the arms of his lovely wife to the plastic, manufactured, self-congratulatory pomp-and-circumstance of MotoGP, a European sport. I don't disagree with his decision, but that doesn't make him any less anti-establishment.



Do you really need me to tell you these things? Stoner has said most of this stuff himself.



It is all these things that I respect in Stoner as I am myself anti-establishment.



It is also all these things that make Stoners success all the more honest and impressive. Where as the Italians and the Spanish have the establishment right behind them greasing the cogs, Stoner does not and therefore owns his success outright.
 
Also............................ as far as Casey being misunderstood............as an alien he has to rely on his babelfish for accurate translation with the local species. If his babelfish is as faulty as the one residing here, it is little wonder that everything he says is misconstrued!
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And.............Jumkie, to rate Hayden as top 5 without differentiating, is going to lose you a lot of credibility. Now I know you are a dedicated Hayden fan, but by not ranking Lorenzo or Rossi above Hayden, you have shot yourself in the foot. Much as I loved Bayliss, it hurt me to accept that he wasnt top 5. I know Hayden has a world title (which he deserved), but it is generally accepted that a factory Honda ride gives you a massive advantage over most of your competitors.



Yep , I believe a spec race on cbr1000s ( or equivalent) would be a revelation. But remember when Edwards partnered Rossi in a suzuki endurance race, he could not believe how much quicker Rossi was on it than him. Even if Hayden is better than Edwards, the same applies to a lesser degree.



Keep up the good work, but temper your enthusiasm for Hayden by just a smidge.
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Hope you didn,t mind me calling you a nanny, but then what else do you call looking after Talpa.
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quote from edwards "I've never really felt like he gets enough credit for how hard he works – there's always that myth that he always has the best bikes and so on. I don't think many people realise how hard he works – there's no in-between, he does it all to the max. He's also very clever. How would you say it... he's sly! He's very undercover, foxy, sly. It's cool. He's not real blatant about some of the mind games. But on the track, he's pretty vicious!"



edit: More than anything, it's the racer in him that makes him so strong. It's obvious the guy wants to win. He's got a lot of natural talent but I know a lot of guys with natural talent and it gets some guys in trouble. It's the whole package that makes him strong – the desire, the focus, the talent.



that one's from hayden
 
Bunny, again, not sure what issue u hav with Lex's take. Its actually a very endearing quality, one that i like about him. And one that i think Lex nailed.



Well buddy, About Hayden, i dont think Rossi or Lorenzo or Pedro are that much faster or slower than Nicky. Watch 06 again. That was the first and last time at least 3 of that list were on fairly equal footing. Saying the other 3 "aliens" r head and shoulders compared to Hayden without qualifying it IS my point. I hav no problem peeps including u thinking im crazy or losing cred ranking Hayden so high. But stop and consider the following, how crazy would i hav sounded if i had said Rossi would be 15th and barely a nano sec faster than 'daddy-purchased-never been on a 800cc-seat of Karel Abraham??? Pause...



Now we could hav said Rossi would hav beat Stoner if they were Ducati teammates all our lives and never known. That is until now that we got a glimpse. Well my glimpse was 06. And thats while Nicky had many documented problems, but when his bike was decent, and the same could be said about Rossi that year, then we had a situation where he did dice with him. If we now choose to ignore the difference in experience 07 forward, then what can i say to convince u? I dont need convincing. I know that this sport is machine driven results combined with rider clout, both of which Hayden's never had! EXCEPT the 06 fluke where Honda was without Rossi while its sights were on their new rookie answer for the future. I shouldnt hav to go over what was the 07-08 Honda to explain his results. Im done with that. So that in a nut shell why i think Nicky is faster and better than a superficial assessment.
 
Thats a pretty harsh assessment there Lex!

Your comments are at the critical end of the spectrum. Were you at those press-conferences, or perhaps read the transcript out of context? I,d really like a true first hand take on this. Kropotkin?



I will concede that Casey is not an expert in diplomacy, but making the quantum leap to calling him vindictive and openly anti-establishment is a step too far, in my opinion. Responding to cheap shots - disgraceful
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I don,t see any anti-establishment behaviour, but I do see a defensiveness in him . Much as Rossi created Gibernau the pariah, the same thing happened to Stoner when he had the audacity to challenge Rossi for the championship. Adding to this was the negative conjecture about Stoners scaphoid injury and subsequent lactose-intolerance, to the degree that Rossi -fans continuously vent derogatory comments about him. (Curve is an example of this). Its little wonder that Casey has probably developed a persecution complex and is quite defensive when discussing many things with the media. Then add stupid comments from Rossi about him not trying hard enough on the bike- is it not a surprise that he gets irate and defensive. You want to call it vindictiveness. I think youve got it wrong and I don,t think you want to change an opinion that it seems you decided on quite a while ago.



I would be more inclined to value the comments of journalists that have dealt with him directly. From what I have read, he is on most occasions easy to get on with. If Kropotkin says otherwise ,I will have to review my opinion. If he refutes your view, you should do the same.



Thankfully, Krop is not the establishment. The only establishment who speak highly of Casey Stoner (the person) are Toby Moody and Julian Ryder. However, none of Stoner's proponents from the establishment disagree that Stoner is bad at handling the press or that he has a tendency to run his mouth at people who've spoken ill of him. What people like Krop and Toby Moody do say is that Stoner's vindictive loathing of the MotoGP establishment is merely his response to MotoGP and that Casey is an otherwise decent human being.



Imo, the fans need a better grasp of the argument. Stoner is indeed an anti-establishment Aussie who handles the press and other PR aspects of the sport quite poorly. He's also shown that he can hold a grudge against people who cross him, and he will hit out when given the opportunity. However, Casey Stoner is not a bad person.



Sometimes I think that MotoGP fans are obsessed with embracing dichotomy just to oversimplify everything. Rossi, the Pontiff vs. Stoner, the pariah. Is it not possible for the Pontiff to have a dark side (a side Rossi has clearly displayed in many instances throughout his career)? Is it not possible for the pariah to have many redeeming qualities, but still function as a pariah of sorts in comparison to Rossi?



My only problem with Stoner is that he is unabashedly anti-establishment, but then he whines when people attack him. What does he expect, and why does he give them the satisfaction of ruining his mood? Prior to this post I have never mentioned Stoner's whining so I have not leveled a single gripe against his character. You claim that I am being unfairly harsh, but I cannot be held responsible for reality.



True: Casey Stoner is the alien when he's on his game

True: Casey Stoner has won more 800cc races than any other rider to date

True: Casey Stoner makes most of his own PR problems

True: Casey Stoner holds grudges and he hits out at people who criticize him



If the guy has to be perfect for you to admire him, I can't help you.
 

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