Capirossi to Kawasaki

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captain clutch @ Jul 9 2007, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>While we are at it lets put them all on the same machinery with same tyres and same support!

Maybe then we will find out who the best riders are?
what just like say the R6 cup, remember motogp is prototype racing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 9 2007, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For that to work the machinery would have to be completely equal, and thats a rubbish idea.

I think its obvious it wouldnt work its just you cant help but feel certain riders get looked after in factory teams their whole carreers and get all the "results" while more talented harder working riders langiush in satelite team.

i agree it would never happen but i would love to see more reward for talent in this sport.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captain clutch @ Jul 9 2007, 09:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think its obvious it wouldnt work its just you cant help but feel certain riders get looked after in factory teams their whole carreers and get all the "results" while more talented harder working riders langiush in satelite team.

i agree it would never happen but i would love to see more reward for talent in this sport.

I think that at the end of the day the Riding does the talking and the real talent shows through. People often get places easier or even get rides they shouldn't for whatever reason, but it never lasts and the best riders get what they need and the poor riders fade away.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 9 2007, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what just like say the R6 cup, remember motogp is prototype racing.

Yeah i know.

This is one area i have always likes more about f1 and i think Motogp should adopt. The feeder series to F1 is GP2 where all the drivers are in equal machinery and it is designed to promote tight racing. This ensures that the best drivers shine and are ready to be plucked into the elite, however f1 is nothing like GP2 its just you know all the drivers from GP2 can drive.

MotoGP on the other hand takes riders from 250s which is not solely a riders championship so it is possible for certain riders to get the best bikes all the way through and get the best results but not nesissarily be the best rider.

Since I'm Australian and a Stoner fan i conceed this is probably extremely biased but i believed this is evident in the Pedrosa v Stoner careers.

Stoner has aways had to work very hard on non-factory teams and was able to hang on to the rear of Pedrosa in a factory ride, but Pedrosa won the 250 tittle that season and so got the factory Honda ride in Motogp while Casey got a satelite Honda ride where HE believes the Honda big wigs messed with his equipment but he still had some success while Pedrosa had a terrific debut year.

Then comes this year, by luck several higher profile riders didnt want to sign with Duke so Stoner by uck finnally landed a factory ride and 2007 is his reward for a career of hard work on inferior machinery.

My question how many others out their are as tallented if not more tallented as Stoner who just dont get the opertunites to succeed?

I would love to see more higher profile rider based siries.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capirex @ Jul 8 2007, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Ducati was also a contender last year for the title - pity for the crash at catalunya - Wasn't that Loris? .... Wasn't he one of the older ones on the grid?
2. Loris developed the 990cc bike and also the 800cc bike .... he was with dukes from the beggining so there's no question about the experience and abillity of developing a bike.
3. He was pretty fast in different raaces, so he's still fast i have no doubt there ... he'll be bcak on top my prediction is from brno ...
4. Hm He need to change his style also and i think after so much time in racing that stuff is harder to do then for casey or the younger ones.

Dont you worry for him ... he won;t retire until he'll shut all the doubters, so until he'll be back for the winning way, is that clear?

1) It was a shame since since 2006 was Loris' only shot at the title in his career to date and going forward...in short he missed his only shot.

2) Where did you read Loris developed the 800cc bike for Ducati?

3) Is this you Ngoli Desmo...? Predicting Brno for Loris is a annual occurence which is questionalbe at best and silly at worst. Everyone gets better after the holiday season. Keep in mind that Casey (not Loris) is the one with the shot at the title, so any advancements in the bike or tyres will go to Casey first, and deLoris will have to let Casey take the lead in all areas from now forward since Loris has no shot at the title himself with Ducati this year.

4) 9 years racing in the big class and yet delivery of the title or consistent performances. (Honda 1995 6th, Yamaha 1996 10th, Honda 2000 7th, Honda 2001 3rd, Honda 2002 8th, Ducati 2003 4th, Ducati 2004 9th, Ducati 2005 6th, & Ducati 2006 3rd). Loris has 7 wins during his 9 year career in the Big Class vs Casey's 2 year career and 5 wins. In Short, time has pased Capirossi by he's had many many shots with no delivery, changing styles won't improve (e.g. 500 to MotoGP change in style required and no #65 performance improvement).

And about retirement...Doubters, his history shows me good reason to doubt his title contention today and in the future Including his histor in 2005 and 2006 which saw Loris get badly hurt, and both times he did bounce back as quickly as he might have done when younger from such accidents, and this is a sign of his age. He and Ingrid should seriously discusss and think that maybe its time to stop. Retiris is a dignified way out of racing!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captain clutch @ Jul 9 2007, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah i know.

This is one area i have always likes more about f1 and i think Motogp should adopt. The feeder series to F1 is GP2 where all the drivers are in equal machinery and it is designed to promote tight racing. This ensures that the best drivers shine and are ready to be plucked into the elite, however f1 is nothing like GP2 its just you know all the drivers from GP2 can drive.

1. MotoGP on the other hand takes riders from 250s which is not solely a riders championship so it is possible for certain riders to get the best bikes all the way through and get the best results but not nesissarily be the best rider.

Since I'm Australian and a Stoner fan i conceed this is probably extremely biased but i believed this is evident in the Pedrosa v Stoner careers.

2. Stoner has aways had to work very hard on non-factory teams and was able to hang on to the rear of Pedrosa in a factory ride, but Pedrosa won the 250 tittle that season and so got the factory Honda ride in Motogp while Casey got a satelite Honda ride where HE believes the Honda big wigs messed with his equipment but he still had some success while Pedrosa had a terrific debut year.

Then comes this year, by luck several higher profile riders didnt want to sign with Duke so Stoner by uck finnally landed a factory ride and 2007 is his reward for a career of hard work on inferior machinery.

3. My question how many others out their are as tallented if not more tallented as Stoner who just dont get the opertunites to succeed?

I would love to see more higher profile rider based siries.

1. But 250cc isn't a feeder series, it is a grand prix world championship, thats why it is run as such. Ultimately the best riders get the rides, and those who don't deserve them get shifted for someone who does.

2. Stoner was factory Aprilia, and factory KTM for a little wile. The Honda 250 isn't quite as good as the Aprilia anyway, so Stoner was every bit as equiped as Dani in 2005 for example.

3. I often wonder how many racing mega talents are out there who never had the chance to start racing in the first place, its an expensive sport and money is key, i don't think a rider like Stoner has had it particularly hard at all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 9 2007, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. But 250cc isn't a feeder series, it is a grand prix world championship, thats why it is run as such. Ultimately the best riders get the rides, and those who don't deserve them get shifted for someone who does.

2. Stoner was factory Aprilia, and factory KTM for a little wile. The Honda 250 isn't quite as good as the Aprilia anyway, so Stoner was every bit as equiped as Dani in 2005 for example.

3. I often wonder how many racing mega talents are out there who never had the chance to start racing in the first place, its an expensive sport and money is key, i don't think a rider like Stoner has had it particularly hard at all.

Like i said I'm biased

Its much like british f1 fans with Lewis Hamilton.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captain clutch @ Jul 9 2007, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>HE believes the Honda big wigs messed with his equipment but he still had some success while Pedrosa had a terrific debut year.


My question how many others out their are as tallented if not more tallented as Stoner who just dont get the opertunites to succeed?

I would love to see more higher profile rider based siries.
1. what are you saying here ? sabotage ??

2. you make a good point, but surly if the riders are top draw the factory teams will notice regardless of what bikes there riding.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 9 2007, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. But 250cc isn't a feeder series, it is a grand prix world championship, thats why it is run as such. Ultimately the best riders get the rides, and those who don't deserve them get shifted for someone who does.


Thats the thing, it isn't run like a feeder series yet a lot of motogp riders come out of 250s so effectively it becomes a "feeder" series. Correct me if I'm wrong (i tend to be a lot ) but most motogp riders come out of either 250s of Super bikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 9 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. what are you saying here ? sabotage ??

2. you make a good point, but surly if the riders are top draw the factory teams will notice regardless of what bikes there riding.

1. this was brought up in a previous thread (Dood Read, i think) with a reference to this article

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/motogp/moto/38522/?page=1

if you havn't already rea it you should, its a good read.

2. That's the way it should happen in a eutopian society but i cant help but get the feeling it doesnt work that way, but hey i dont know the ins and outs of the sport yet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captain clutch @ Jul 9 2007, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Like i said I'm biased

Its much like british f1 fans with Lewis Hamilton.

Tell me about it, the commentators of yesterdays race were positive Hamilton had a problem because he wasn't winning. In reality he was never really on the pace of the top few guys, but they wouldn't even consider that a possibility

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captain clutch @ Jul 9 2007, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats the thing, it isn't run like a feeder series yet a lot of motogp riders come out of 250s so effectively it becomes a "feeder" series. Correct me if I'm wrong (i tend to be a lot ) but most motogp riders come out of either 250s of Super bikes.

I'm a traditionalist with grand prix racing, so i hate the way people have started to consider the smaller classes feeder series' rather than actual world championship classes of their own. The best riders tend to come up through 250 but that is not the purpose of the series, its is the world championship for 250cc bikes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 9 2007, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tell me about it, the commentators of yesterdays race were positive Hamilton had a problem because he wasn't winning. In reality he was never really on the pace of the top few guys, but they wouldn't even consider that a possibility
I'm a traditionalist with grand prix racing, so i hate the way people have started to consider the smaller classes feeder series' rather than actual world championship classes of their own. The best riders tend to come up through 250 but that is not the purpose of the series, its is the world championship for 250cc bikes.

I know i hate the itv team, i could go on forever about them but i will with hold for now. Although i would like to post a link to another forum that has an extremely funny mock article about the itv commontators but i dont know wether i'm allowed to. Am i anyone?

2. I guess your right, I only started following bikes about 2 years ago and thus am not prone to traditional thinking.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 9 2007, 10:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i hate the way people have started to consider the smaller classes feeder series' rather than actual world championship classes of their own.
good point tom and i agree
in a lot of countrys there is more interest in 125s and 250s than in motogp. funny thing is gp2 is becoming more popular than f1, well it is in my house anyway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 9 2007, 07:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>good point tom and i agree
in a lot of countrys there is more interest in 125s and 250s than in motogp. funny thing is gp2 is becoming more popular than f1, well it is in my house anyway.

Thats because overtaking actually occurs on track in gp2

f1 these days is so boring and predictable, maybe it needs to rain more (stupid global warming)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captain clutch @ Jul 9 2007, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>maybe it needs to rain more (stupid global warming)

Maybe they should have more races in the UK

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 8 2007, 05:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>here we go again with the age thing.
why is is some of you think age is a factor in performance levels ?
if kawa are looking for a "development rider" which the topic starter said they were ,then a more experienced rider is what you need, not some young 250 rider who doesn't no one end of a spanner from another

i dont know to what extent you speak but racing is a young mans game.Age is a huge factor in performance weather it be reflexes or just desire.Unless you are superhuman,at a certain point your skills start to erode,like it or not.The best years of an Athlete's life are between 24-30 and then the skills will slowly start to decline along with the desire,especially in a dangerous sport such as GP.You get to a point in life where there is to much to lose by pushing the razors edge so you dont and the difference in the razors edge and not might be only 1/10 of a second a lap.Somebody can go look it up but im going to guess that there hasnt been to many MotoGp Champs over 35 years old.So yes,age plays a huge roll in performance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 9 2007, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i dont know to what extent you speak but racing is a young mans game.Age is a huge factor in performance weather it be reflexes or just desire.Unless you are superhuman,at a certain point your skills start to erode,like it or not.The best years of an Athlete's life are between 24-30 and then the skills will slowly start to decline along with the desire,especially in a dangerous sport such as GP.You get to a point in life where there is to much to lose by pushing the razors edge so you dont and the difference in the razors edge and not might be only 1/10 of a second a lap.Somebody can go look it up but im going to guess that there hasnt been to many MotoGp Champs over 35 years old.So yes,age plays a huge roll in performance.

I'm not going to do do the job to find the numbers, but I have a strong feeling you got it wrong when it comes to racing. If 24-30 being the best years, there should be an even distribution of champions above 30 and below 24, yes? We all know there are not to many champions below 24, but I suspect there is more champions in the range 30 to 35 than any other range in racing. So yes, age palys a huge role in performance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 9 2007, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not going to do do the job to find the numbers, but I have a strong feeling you got it wrong when it comes to racing. If 24-30 being the best years, there should be an even distribution of champions above 30 and below 24, yes? We all know there are not to many champions below 24, but I suspect there is more champions in the range 30 to 35 than any other range in racing. So yes, age palys a huge role in performance.

I went back 30 years and here are the numbers,you can comprehend them any way you like but i believe i am vindicated.To start with i said i dont remember any champions over 35 and that is true,at least for the last 30 years.

77 Sheene [27]
78,79,80 Roberts [27,28,29]
81 Luchinelli [27]
82 Uncini [27]
83 Spencer [23]
84 Lawson [26]
85 Spencer [25]
86 Lawson [28]
87 Gardner [28]
88 Lawson [30]
89Lawson [31]
90,91,92 Rainey [30,31,32]
93 Schwantz [29]
94,95,96,97,98 Doohan [29,30,31,32,33]
99 Criville [29]
2000 Roberts Jr [27]
01,02,03,04,05,Rossi [22,23,24,25,26]
06 Hayden [26]

I also quoted that 24-30 are the best years of an athletes life,that also appears to be true with 26-29 being the zenith.In the last 30 years only only six titles have been won by riders over 30 and those six were by 3 riders.If anyone would like to go back further maybe it would prove out different but in the time frame since i started following GP the numbers speak for themselves

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 10 2007, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>77 Sheene [27]
78,79,80 Roberts [27,28,29]
81 Luchinelli [27]
82 Uncini [27]
83 Spencer [23]
84 Lawson [26]
85 Spencer [25]
86 Lawson [28]
87 Gardner [28]
88 Lawson [30]
89Lawson [31]
90,91,92 Rainey [30,31,32]
93 Schwantz [29]
94,95,96,97,98 Doohan [29,30,31,32,33]
99 Criville [29]
2000 Roberts Jr [27]
01,02,03,04,05,Rossi [22,23,24,25,26]
06 Hayden [26]

I like the way these guys (70's-90's)basically stepped off their ...... superbikes, came to 500's and started challenging for wins and taking titles within a few years of being in Europe. Just ride the .... out of it, good stuff.

To Capirossi, if he has signed with Kawasaki I would assume Ant West is the casualty. Where does Ant go? I would be no surprise to see him a on D'antin or Tech 3 bike, if not, a Ten Kate Honda maybe?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vale4607 @ Jul 10 2007, 08:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I like the way these guys (70's-90's)basically stepped off their ...... superbikes, came to 500's and started challenging for wins and taking titles within a few years of being in Europe. Just ride the .... out of it, good stuff.

To Capirossi, if he has signed with Kawasaki I would assume Ant West is the casualty. Where does Ant go? I would be no surprise to see him a on D'antin or Tech 3 bike, if not, a Ten Kate Honda maybe?

Kawasaki might be running a third bike and/or a second team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 10 2007, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kawasaki might be running a third bike and/or a second team.

Perhaps, I don't think they should until they get the factory bike competitive, unfortunately this will depend largely on the rider they get. I would prefer Hopkins to ride it over Melandri or Capirossi.

They seem to like the idea of running R.Hayden at a couple of rounds this season so maybe a 3rd bike for next year is on the cards.

I still think Ant West was only seen as a fill in rider while they chased down the three above. Dump Barros, Westy in at D'antin.