can rossi take the title this year?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 6 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is not an unreasonable comment based on events, but I would put a different interpretation on what transpired than him falling to bits/succumbing to pressure. I think it was similar to rossi's 2 offs last year, in that he knew it was a risk to push so hard particularly early in the race, but he was determined to attempt to actually win the race rather than settle for 5th, which was his result last year on an apparently more dominant bike and which livio suppo said after the race was about the maximum potential of the bike at the track on that week-end. Egotistical and indicative of poor tactical and strategic judgement yes, falling to bits I would disagree with if it is a one -off. I think rossi was similarly shattered after at least one of his dnfs last year except that they closed the garage so no-one could film him. I think this is one way in which stoner is similar to rossi; they both have an extreme hatred of losing.

Hopefully (as a stoner fan ) he has now moderated his ambition to winning the world championship rather than winning every race, because as you say whoever wins the championship with the apparently intense competition this year is going to have to settle for position on occasion.
i would agree with that mike if it wasn't for his display in qualifying.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (convertmel) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i dont think vale will win the title this year
he seems to have just lost a step, or, to be more honest, the others have raised their game somewhat .
its reminiscent of king kennys last few years , being beat by marco was seen as a fluke, then franco won and twas an aberration, only when freddie won was it generally realised his time had gone.............
and, sadly , i think thats vale too (he will of course win races still , just not enough to win the title )

Rossi has been around for so many years that people make him older than he is.
Roberts was 29 when he won his last title in 1980.
Rossi turned 29 last month.
He failed to win his 6th MotoGP title at the same age Roberts won his first one (27).

The change to 800cc/21 liters and the consequent increased importance and development of electronics has contributed leveling the field much more than the natural decline of Rossi or the natural growth of younger talents, which would have been happening anyway and inevitably, but would have been slower.

Anyway, Rossi is still there and he is consistently among the 3-4 fastest riders still. I consider it a bit early to declare him incapable of winning one more title

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 6 2008, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Rossi has been around for so many years that people make him older than he is.
Roberts was 29 when he won his last title in 1980.
Rossi turned 29 last month.
He failed to win his 6th MotoGP title at the same age Roberts won his first one (27).

2. The change to 800cc/21 liters and the consequent increased importance and development of electronics has contributed leveling the field much more than the natural decline of Rossi or the natural growth of younger talents, which would have been happening anyway and inevitably, but would have been slower.

1. Calling a rider "old" isn't as simple as just a number becaue it is generally a refference to their learning curve, their hunger, motivation and attitude. Rossi was motogp champion before Lorenzo raced in a gp. He has been around a long time and achieved a lot, that will take its toll on him mentally and physically, eventually leading to a decline in his abilities.

2. The new bikes may allow the field to be closer than in the past, but the younger talents are obviously growing because they have been riding increasingly better than him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Apr 6 2008, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i would agree with that mike if it wasn't for his display in qualifying.
You and basspete may well be proved right, but the new thing at jerez is that stoner made an error/errors in the race, which he hardly did at all last year, whereas he had several practice and/or warm up crashes, including for races he ended up winning. He also crashed at jerez in pre-season testing, and this did not seem to affect his subsequent performance at qatar.

If the other riders and/or bikes have caught up to the extent that he doesn't have a winning chance in the majority of races, I agree that he will have problems, as he does not seem to be psychologically suited to riding for position. I am even willing to concede the possibility that he is not necessarily the sharpest tool in the motogp shed intellectually, but he has an inordinate will to win and amazing reflexes; many riders would have put the bike down in either of his off track excursions at jerez.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 6 2008, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is not an unreasonable comment based on events, but I would put a different interpretation on what transpired than him falling to bits/succumbing to pressure. I think it was similar to rossi's 2 offs last year, in that he knew it was a risk to push so hard particularly early in the race, but he was determined to attempt to actually win the race rather than settle for 5th, which was his result last year on an apparently more dominant bike and which livio suppo said after the race was about the maximum potential of the bike at the track on that week-end. Egotistical and indicative of poor tactical and strategic judgement yes, falling to bits I would disagree with if it is a one -off. I think rossi was similarly shattered after at least one of his dnfs last year except that they closed the garage so no-one could film him. I think this is one way in which stoner is similar to rossi; they both have an extreme hatred of losing.

Hopefully (as a stoner fan ) he has now moderated his ambition to winning the world championship rather than winning every race, because as you say whoever wins the championship with the apparently intense competition this year is going to have to settle for position on occasion.


Yep, wont argue with that. It was his reaction during qualifying that really surprised me to be honest. His body language in the garage, and throwing kicks at Capirossi. It looked like a real toys out of the pram moment.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 6 2008, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yep, wont argue with that. It was his reaction during qualifying that really surprised me to be honest. His body language in the garage, and throwing kicks at Capirossi. It looked like a real toys out of the pram moment.

Pete

When was the last time stoner lost the front end?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 6 2008, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When was the last time stoner lost the front end?

Friday practice?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phleg @ Apr 6 2008, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Friday practice?

exactly, but previous to that i cant remember? It may have been as recent as one of his pre-season tumbles but i dont recall seeing him lose the front on tv since he got on the bridgestones. It may be significant

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 6 2008, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>exactly, but previous to that i cant remember? It may have been as recent as one of his pre-season tumbles but i dont recall seeing him lose the front on tv since he got on the bridgestones. It may be significant
I think if he pushes beyond the limits of the bike and tyres it will happen with bridgestones or michelins; up till now the limit for him seems to have been higher with bridgestones, although he did change both tyres and bike between the 2006 and 2007 seasons.

well as im a massive fan of valentino then 4 sure im looking for him to re take the crowm.but its early days anything can happen in racing.
its not been a very good couple of seasons for rossi and im pretty sure this one will be well lets hope so
rossi has been at the top of the game for many years and the whole idea would be for him to be at the top when he finally retires.

but thats another story

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 6 2008, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Calling a rider "old" isn't as simple as just a number becaue it is generally a refference to their learning curve, their hunger, motivation and attitude. Rossi was motogp champion before Lorenzo raced in a gp. He has been around a long time and achieved a lot, that will take its toll on him mentally and physically, eventually leading to a decline in his abilities.

2. The new bikes may allow the field to be closer than in the past, but the younger talents are obviously growing because they have been riding increasingly better than him.

1. Apart from motivation or concentration problems, which were evident in 2006 and 2007 and led to some famous mistakes, I do not see that Rossi as a rider has become slower or anything of that kind. He's still the rider who won most GPs last year, after Stoner.

2. They, who?
Stoner, yes, that's one rider who has performed better than Rossi since 2007.
Who else?
Don't say Pedro Maybe he'll be consistently faster than Rossi this year, but so far he never was.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 6 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Apart from motivation or concentration problems, which were evident in 2006 and 2007 and led to some famous mistakes, I do not see that Rossi as a rider has become slower or anything of that kind. He's still the rider who won most GPs last year, after Stoner.

2. They, who?
Stoner, yes, that's one rider who has performed better than Rossi since 2007.
Who else?
Don't say Pedro Maybe he'll be consistently faster than Rossi this year, but so far he never was.

1. His abilities are still very much amongst the best in the world, his results speak for themself but they are clearly inferior to his previous results, hence my statement. This should not be taken as anti-rossi as the fact that he is able to "decline" to being mearly a significant championship contender says a lot about his past performance.

2. Hayden performed better than Rossi in 06, and in 07 he was bettered by both Stoner and Pedrosa. He may not have been "faster" than Rossi last year, but he still scored more world championship points which is obviously the aim (despite what you might like to think).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 6 2008, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. His abilities are still very much amongst the best in the world, his results speak for themself but they are clearly inferior to his previous results, hence my statement. This should not be taken as anti-rossi as the fact that he is able to "decline" to being mearly a significant championship contender says a lot about his past performance.

2. Hayden performed better than Rossi in 06, and in 07 he was bettered by both Stoner and Pedrosa. He may not have been "faster" than Rossi last year, but he still scored more world championship points which is obviously the aim (despite what you might like to think).


i still think rossi's ablilities "are" the best in the world, the problem is that over the years the evolution of motogp bikes and the way they have changed are slightly phasing out some of his natural abillity and making him look like his abilities have declined because he doesnt ride with so much TC as well as some of the newer riders .
i simply refuse to belive rossi is losing it because hes gettin older thats just bollox cos we all know that if the 500's came back he would just blow everyone away everytime.
its like over the years athletes have broken the 100 meters but every few years there is always someone faster and sets a new record and the same goes for motogp the riders keep breaking lap records and so on, but even tho there are so many fast riders now he has still managed to stay very close to the top

this isnt stupid rossi talk and im not trying to make him about to be a magician, im just saying that after many years of racing and still running at the front you must have some serious serious talent.
i still think 06 and 07 was bad luck for rossi, even tho stoner was so fast last year rossi would have had a tough time racing with stoner if everything was perfect.

look at some of the races in 06 and 07 the rossi magic is still there maybe not so much as the early days but he still has big potential, i smell another 2 WC wins from rossi but if he doesnt get them well i still want to thank him for so many amazing performances over the years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Apr 7 2008, 12:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i simply refuse to belive rossi is losing it because hes gettin older thats just bollox cos we all know that if the 500's came back he would just blow everyone away everytime.

Well thats a massive load of rubbish, you can't know that at all. You like to think Rossi would blow everyone away everytime, but that can only be speculation. I think the older bikes would simply make the differences between the riders bigger, so i think that Stoner and Pedrosa would just get further ahead. But even thats just how my imagination sees it, the reality is that so many things would so different we could see a very different motogp picture if this situation actually happened (but it never will).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well thats a massive load of rubbish, you can't know that at all. You like to think Rossi would blow everyone away everytime, but that can only be speculation. I think the older bikes would simply make the differences between the riders bigger, so i think that Stoner and Pedrosa would just get further ahead. But even thats just how my imagination sees it, the reality is that so many things would so different we could see a very different motogp picture if this situation actually happened (but it never will).


i didnt expect you to agree anyway, and i dont think that stoner could ever ride the 500 like you might think, dam he would kill himself he cant even stay on a bike that hasnt got super soffisticated TC, i think dani would be fast on a 500 tho, hang on dani would be blazing fast.
i know the 500's wont come back and thats a sad day but i think if we get some reduction or even removal of TC then rossi would be even closer to the win and other riders that arent at the front now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Apr 7 2008, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think if we get some reduction or even removal of TC then rossi would be even closer to the win and other riders that arent at the front now.


So despite that fact that its too hard for him now, if we make it harder he will win, right

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So despite that fact that its too hard for him now, if we make it harder he will win, right


its not to hard hes just been unlucky, and how would removing TC make it harder for him????
i think you will find that when it comes to bike control, slides, throttle control , going into corners on one wheel etc then he is the man.

im not arguing with you my opinion is just different to urs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Apr 7 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>its not to hard hes just been unlucky, and how would removing TC make it harder for him????
i think you will find that when it comes to bike control, slides, throttle control , going into corners on one wheel etc then he is the man.

im not arguing with you my opinion is just different to urs.

Yea thats cool, i mean first of all i don't put the results down to luck because i think it belittles the sport in principle. Sometimes things don't work out, but thats how things go in a risk taking atmophere. I think decreasing rider aids would make it harder for Rossi because it would increase his input into the results, making the gap between him and those superior bigger, on the other hand he would get further ahead of those he is better than.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yea thats cool, i mean first of all i don't put the results down to luck because i think it belittles the sport in principle. Sometimes things don't work out, but thats how things go in a risk taking atmophere. I think decreasing rider aids would make it harder for Rossi because it would increase his input into the results, making the gap between him and those superior bigger, on the other hand he would get further ahead of those he is better than.


yes i agree ( sort of lol), i just want close racing and i think it will be much closer this year than the last few especially with all the noob riders, also the bikes seem alot closer performance wise.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 7 2008, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think decreasing rider aids would make it harder for Rossi because it would increase his input into the results, making the gap between him and those superior bigger, on the other hand he would get further ahead of those he is better than.
Which riders do you reckon are "superior" to him? As opposed to the rider/bike/tyre package being better as a whole.