Butler: “Roadracing Is A Contact Sport,”

Talpa said:

Therefore should Aoyama be punished? And how so if it is a matter of opinion?

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As I have already stated, I have yet to see the incident and as such I cannot say whether he should or should not be punished.



What I will say is that tools are available to be used to determine if danger was caused by negligence or accidental (whish is a determining factor in any punishment)

Talpa said:

This is where it gets interesting. For it would be impossible to blanket these incidents as the same, as they can occur at different parts of the circuit under many varying different circumstances. Therefore it is unfair to punish a rider of something fairly innocent the same as a repeat offender of things more dangerous.

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Absolutely, each incident needs to be looked at individually and assessed accordingly and the history of the protagonists should also be considered as there are such things as 'simple stuff ups' and for that, I am not keen on punishing a rider, although if the action is repeated we enter into a 'was it a genuine stuff up' area.

Talpa said:

And then how do they define 'Dangerous', and is this Dangerous behavior with intent or just a mistake? Was Aoyama intentionally placing Stoner in Danger yesterday? And how can this be proved? During practice and QP you cannot just look at split times and averages to then determine what the rider should have been doing at a particular point in time, especially considering the amount of adjustment these machines posses. And if the rider made a 'mistake' or misjudged another riders proximity whilst trying to pilot a Motogp bike around at warp speed then surely this couldn't fall under your 'blanket' style regulation? And if it did, it would be considered 'unfair' to the rider in question, especially if the rule is intended to punish riders with intent to block.

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Again I have not seen the incident so me placing judgement on it is difficult and nor am I actually blaming Aoyama but as you wish to continue with that as the example we shall try.



As with all aspects of 'judgement' calls, the definition is in itself part of the problem as one person's dangerous will be another's hard racing (ie. Rossi vs Stoner at Laguna), thus clear delineation and definition would be needed. Given that courts of law have clear, albeit legal definitions of negligence, dangerous etc I would suggest that one would need to look for a similar sport and it's definitions.



The checking of sector times is a valid way to determine if a rider was slow, fast, average etc across a sector and therefore a lap, it does not define why the rider was slow (were that the case) nor why he was placed in a dangerous position (if that is the case).



Also, I do not propose any 'blanket style' approach but do advocate consistency as that is the over-riding factor to many complaints across all sports (football spectacularly where the favourites are often seen as receiving treatment that lessers cannot obtain).



But in short all incident should be looked at and assessed by a truly independent panel of experienced people representative of a great many aspects of the sport/business. If they deem an incident as dangerous they then need to look at it in isolation and assess the appropriate penalty, only then looking at the individual riders history.

Talpa said:

Not at all, have another look at the incident, Stoner is clearly not looking where he is going-looking behind actually, whilst fist-pumping one handed under full acceleration wobbling going past Aoyama. Surely you can see the utter hypocrisy and bias in calling for 'safer racing' then behaving like this???? I'm not the one calling for penalties for riders being on the racing line.

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Again, I have seen nothing from Stoner calling for penalties for riders on a racing line and as such at this stage I will say you and he have something in common, neither is calling for penalties in the circumstance.



But, you mention hypocrisy and so shall I.



You are calling for a penalty because of what you deem to be Stoner's dangerous behaviour of removing one hand from the handlebars, waving it thus creating your perception of instability in the motorcycle whilst not looking at the track ahead. So I ask you, should a rider who performs and manouver that means the front wheel is off the ground also not be punished?



What about a rider who glimpses behind to check the position of others - surely they should not do this as they are not looking where they are going?

Talpa said:

Yes but Rossi, in this instance, was not posing a 'danger' to any other rider......which is the point btw.

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Perceptions Talpa.



Rossi was not posing a danger, very true but why did he slow?



You missed the point.



He slowed because other riders would have gotten in his way thus creating a danger and impacting upon his time.

Talpa said:

Are you sure he's not? He is certainly very animated on track about it, no? Like I said it could have been dealt with afterwards by him simply going to have a chat to Hiroshi and conveying his POV on the matter. This would have been the 'safe' and more effective thing to do wouldn't you agree?

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Well, you were certain that Rossi was not involved in the weight issue despite a number of journalists stating otherwise and putting their words in print, so given I have seen nothing to the contrary from Stoner nor any reputable journalist stating otherwise then yes, I am sure as can be with the information available that Stoner is not calling for penalties to riders whom get in his way









Now, for the record and agin I have not seen the incident in question and personally have not seen to many other complaints pointed at Aoyama so have no doubt that any actions of his were not intentional.



Oh and for the record I see others complaining this session as well.















Gaz

Intentional wheelies are usually performed post race when danger is less a factor, unless you are bautista that is....



Rossi was indeed slowing, to try to be safe. And he crashed all by himself. This has little to do with the subject of blocking intentionally or unintentially, though you like to debate with these kinds of almost completely irrelevant points.....



I'm not calling for penaly in regards to Stoners behaviour, I'm simply pointing out that it's hypocrisy on his part to whinge about safety then act like this. And if a penalty should apply to hiroshi on this incident then stoner should receive one as well, possibly worse as stoners behaviour was 'intentional' and I believe aoyamas was not.



You still didn't anwser my last question either, other than bringing up an even more irrelevant point. I suggest you watch the incident as well before proceeding to much further with debating an issue you haven't witnessed.......otherwise we could end up with more of the above irrelevance......or is the word I'm looking for 'intentional'

Talpa said:

Intentional wheelies are usually performed post race when danger is less a factor, unless you are bautista that is....

Rossi was indeed slowing, to try to be safe. And he crashed all by himself. This has little to do with the subject of blocking intentionally or unintentially, though you like to debate with these kinds of almost completely irrelevant points.....



I'm not calling for penaly in regards to Stoners behaviour, I'm simply pointing out that it's hypocrisy on his part to whinge about safety then act like this. And if a penalty should apply to hiroshi on this incident then stoner should receive one as well, possibly worse as stoners behaviour was 'intentional' and I believe aoyamas was not.



You still didn't anwser my last question either, other than bringing up an even more irrelevant point. I suggest you watch the incident as well before proceeding to much further with debating an issue you haven't witnessed.......otherwise we could end up with more of the above irrelevance......or is the word I'm looking for 'intentional'

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Unlike gaz I did see the incident. No-one including stoner is calling for any penalty on aoyama.



Riders should be told not to dawdle on the racing line in this circumstance though, and if race direction won't enforce it then stoner imo is justified in remonstrating with offending riders, as other riders not infrequently also do which you seem to conveniently overlook.



We have gone over this before, but there was a terrible accident involving bubba schobert and kevin magee in circumstances different to this only in it being the warm-down lap when there would be more reason to expect somebody to be going slowly, albeit not on the racing line.



Stoner was well clear, having had to go wide to avoid aoyama (which is rather the point) and was totally in control of his bike which I had thought from other posts of yours was another bike that rides itself anyway. As I said you are again trying to posit some absurd theoretical danger caused by stoner as the issue rather than actually dangerous behaviour by another rider. We all get that you hate him.

Talpa said:

Intentional wheelies are usually performed post race when danger is less a factor, unless you are bautista that is....

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To say slowdown laps are 'less dangerous' is a misnomer as it is common to see incident on slowdown laps, certainly not always as severe as the Bubba Shobert incident raised elsewhere but it is common. I would dare suggest that it would be more dangerous than a race as whilst in racing all riders are concentrating on the one goal, on a slowdown lap many celebrate and often their concentration may waiver for various reasons (anger, excitement) not to mention environmental factors (cross wind).



Additionally, what of wheelies under acceleration out of a corner where the front gets crossed up, surely something needs to be done there so that the bikes stability is not affected if that is of your concern

Talpa said:

Rossi was indeed slowing, to try to be safe. And he crashed all by himself. This has little to do with the subject of blocking intentionally or unintentially, though you like to debate with these kinds of almost completely irrelevant points.....

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Ummm, you accusing me of irrelevant points - - ...., long draw of bow.



What I am/was pointing out was an instance of a rider feeling the need to remove themselves from coming across a blocked track that resulted in that rider's injuring himself.



In case you forgot you did ask for instances of riders being injured under the circumstances - so I raised one but because it does not suit your slanted view it is irrelevant I take it. Fact is that Rossi did state he was slowing to ensure that he got clear track - the cooling of the tyres resulted in his accident that was achieved (bad word) alone, but my point is that if he was not concerned about possible track blockages he would not have slowed and thus, his tyre would not have cooled and thus he would not have had his accident.



Nothing irrelevant given your question.



And to answer another example, Hayden crashing onto (?) - when Hayden highsided in the wet at Germany was a case of a slower rider trying to be out of the way that was thence involved in an incident (unwittingly). They did not cause the incident nor play any real role, but they were involved.

Talpa said:

I'm not calling for penaly in regards to Stoners behaviour, I'm simply pointing out that it's hypocrisy on his part to whinge about safety then act like this. And if a penalty should apply to hiroshi on this incident then stoner should receive one as well, possibly worse as stoners behaviour was 'intentional' and I believe aoyamas was not.

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Ok Talps, someone has to say it WTF, if you had your way Stoner would be wearing cement shoes on the bottom of some river somewhere as he is the ultimate anti-christ and all things bad in the sport



Stoner mentions a lot of things in press conferences, from track safety, to rider behaviour and yet you have now decided that because he has a 'run in' he has no right to discuss rider safety as you, yes you deem that he could not have been adequately in control of his vehicle and as such was himself, creating a danger. Yet, in the same breath you seem to sanction wheelies be they performed on slow down laps of not.

Talpa said:

You still didn't anwser my last question either, other than bringing up an even more irrelevant point. I suggest you watch the incident as well before proceeding to much further with debating an issue you haven't witnessed.......otherwise we could end up with more of the above irrelevance......or is the word I'm looking for 'intentional'

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Umm Talps, it is you that has decided I am commenting on an incident that I have not witnessed because it is YOU that keeps bringing the Stoner/Aoyama incident into play. I should however not be surprised as your infatuation with Stoner does seem to know now bounds and as such for you, any incident involving him is his fault first irrespective of the question at hand



Again, I will say for you my comments are general and I do feel that generally speaking each and every bloody incident that involves a yellow flag situation or a complaint from a rider (make it an official complaint, have them put their monies where their mouths are) should be investigated.



Again you seem intent on deflection of point but that is your style and I should be aware that again we will go from the earth is flat, to the earth is round, to I never said the earth is flat at all but kinda convex shape with a little lip at that end, and why, because we have the usual opposing views of 'all things Stoner = bad bad boy'.





As an aside and a question to Krop and others (as I have not seen it) - do they use a Blue flag or similar flag (some car racing uses a white flag for slow moving vehicle on circuit) during practice/qualifying?











Gaz

The discussion is on the aoyama incident!! Hello....



Your bias knows no bounds, look at the thread, there have been calls for penalties onblocking in fp and qp in relation the incidents where riders on fast laps have been blocked by others, nothing to do with stand alone crashes like rossi's at mugello, let alone anything to do with rider weight issues!



I can see why you have been banned from club racing. Now answer the question, do you think that it would have been much more safe and effective for Stoner to go and see aoyama after the session and explain his anger, maybe getting a response as to why, rather than turning, first pumping accelerating past in anger. Which was the safer, more mature, more effective option Gaz? Simple question.



And I suggest you watch the incident before replying with another load of deflectional rubbish.

Talpa said:

The discussion is on the aoyama incident!! Hello....



Your bias knows no bounds, look at the thread, there have been calls for penalties onblocking in fp and qp in relation the incidents where riders on fast laps have been blocked by others, nothing to do with stand alone crashes like rossi's at mugello, let alone anything to do with rider weight issues!



I can see why you have been banned from club racing. Now answer the question, do you think that it would have been much more safe and effective for Stoner to go and see aoyama after the session and explain his anger, maybe getting a response as to why, rather than turning, first pumping accelerating past in anger. Which was the safer, more mature, more effective option Gaz? Simple question.



And I suggest you watch the incident before replying with another load of deflectional rubbish.

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I don't believe I have ever come across a bigger hypocrite on any forum in the known universe ....and yet you have the temeritry to call others on this exact point....oh the irony



EVERY SINGLE TIME WITHOUT FAIL when Rossi or Stoner are involved in an incident you will always back Rossi and always condemn Stoner and yet you try to pass yourself off as objective.



Whilst I would much prefer to see a competitive Rossi as it will make the show all the better, one of the benefits of seeing Stoner doing so well at the moment on the Honda and Rossi failing dismally on the Ducati is knowing it will be driving you and your ilk absolutely insane - much like is happening to your hero

Talpa said:

The discussion is on the aoyama incident!! Hello....

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Read the thread title - no mention of Aoyama.



My comments were general in response to a general post - you decided to thence continue along the lines of the Aoyama incident - not me and now you seem to not like it - cool

Talpa said:

Your bias knows no bounds, look at the thread, there have been calls for penalties onblocking in fp and qp in relation the incidents where riders on fast laps have been blocked by others, nothing to do with stand alone crashes like rossi's at mugello, let alone anything to do with rider weight issues!

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Has Stoner gone into print in an article and called for penalties for riders blocking (using your words there)?



If so, please link article.



Others calling for penalties is not Stoner calling for penalties



As for passing, well I have only seen heresay points raised from the safety commitee meeting from Friday where your idol/hero has one view, and others have another.





EDIT: I do enjoy that my not acknowledging your point/claim of Stoner calling for penalties is an example of 'bias knowing no bounds' yet your refusal to acknowledge and/or accept reports from reputable people/journalists that Rossi actively raised the weight issue is not bias. And you accuse me and others of Hypocrisy.

Talpa said:

I can see why you have been banned from club racing. Now answer the question, do you think that it would have been much more safe and effective for Stoner to go and see aoyama after the session and explain his anger, maybe getting a response as to why, rather than turning, first pumping accelerating past in anger. Which was the safer, more mature, more effective option Gaz? Simple question.

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FFS Talps, make up your mind. First you are on a high horse accusing me of commenting on something I have not seen (not quite correct as I am commenting generally) then you ask me to comment on the very thing that you want me not to comment on because I have not seen it. So what is it?



Do i have your permission to answer?



Also Master Talps, on the banned front you are as is often the case totally wrong again, but let that not get in your way of character assassination in order to try to add more credence to your 'Talpa is right' approach to making your anti- Stoner point



I am not 'banned' in any official way nor have I ever been spoken to officially by an MA, MNSW ar AASA official and as a matter of fact I still regularly get invited to perform my official duties at Club, state and occasionally national level from a number of motorcycle organisations. Why, only this weekend I knocked back such an opportunity to provide assistance at a meeting, and have thus far knocked back around 12 such opportunities this year alone. But let that not lesson your personal attacks on someone and something you know nought about now.



What I will say is that I am not popular with some in officialdom in this state given the fact that I ask questions relating to (you ready for this) inequality in decision making between riders/teams (and as such I am not asked to as many meeting as before). Go figure, sound familiar a person questions officialdom and is labelled?

Talpa said:

And I suggest you watch the incident before replying with another load of deflectional rubbish.

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And I suggest that you read everything over again because I have not commented on the incident directly but generally but have replied to your use of it as an example (refer to - http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=13999&view=findpost&p=278747 for whom bought it into our discussions). You will also see should you remove those anti-red glasses that I have never in this thread not acknowledged that I have not seen the incident but been commenting generally and have only been using Aoyama in posts as a response to your use of him as an example.



Also, please again you answer me - given that you demand I answer you.



Why is the incident with Rossi last year where he broke his leg not relevant to a discussion of whether slower riders on track can cause a danger.











Gaz

Talpa said:

Your bias knows no bounds, look at the thread, there have been calls for penalties onblocking in fp and qp in relation the incidents where riders on fast laps have been blocked by others, nothing to do with stand alone crashes like rossi's at mugello, let alone anything to do with rider weight issues!



I can see why you have been banned from club racing. Now answer the question, do you think that it would have been much more safe and effective for Stoner to go and see aoyama after the session and explain his anger, maybe getting a response as to why, rather than turning, first pumping accelerating past in anger. Which was the safer, more mature, more effective option Gaz? Simple question.

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As somebody wrote in the sunday paper today about a well-known politician, you are completely unfamiliar with the notion of irony. I think most if not all on here are biased, but to match you in that area would require herculean effort. As I said in relation to another poster concerning another incident, if a rider shot casey stoner with a gun you would be blaming stoner for the potential for lead poisoning involved in loading the bullets.



This was the last 10 minutes of qualifying, with stoner even if he has an advantage over the ducatis and yamahas needing to beat pedrosa and simoncelli on the same bikes, both brilliantly fast riders and the second even more difficult to beat in single lap competition because he is not notably risk averse. This involves riding very close to the edge, requiring extreme focus from most riders , with the possible exception of rossi, who is superhuman even medically in apparently being able to do it without his heart rate going over 110. I think most riders in this circumstance are also aware of where other riders are when they start a pole attempt, so someone slowing down whilst staying on the racing line is doubly annoying as well as being dangerous.

double

Talpa said:

The discussion is on the aoyama incident!! Hello....



Your bias knows no bounds, look at the thread, there have been calls for penalties onblocking in fp and qp in relation the incidents where riders on fast laps have been blocked by others, nothing to do with stand alone crashes like rossi's at mugello, let alone anything to do with rider weight issues!



I can see why you have been banned from club racing. Now answer the question, do you think that it would have been much more safe and effective for Stoner to go and see aoyama after the session and explain his anger, maybe getting a response as to why, rather than turning, first pumping accelerating past in anger. Which was the safer, more mature, more effective option Gaz? Simple question.



And I suggest you watch the incident before replying with another load of deflectional rubbish.

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Watched it live, storm in a teacup.



They're competitive,



Even Elias who had the option of getting back on the track to qualify in 18th, or being stopped by the Marshall's and then qualifying in 18th blew his top to gain his opportunity.



What annoys me is that in one thread, where it would seem that we are promoting the idea (rather falsely) that motogp and WSBK are contact sports competitiveness and aggression are desirable qualities, however should the opportunity arise to put the boot into someone who isn't your favorite rider then the opinion is conveniently reversed in order to simply load crap onto that rider.



Stoner is wanting to get results on the board because he had a crash second round and scored no points. He (and every rider on the grid) is not there because they are charitable and raise orphaned kittens and crap like that, they are there to ride hard and win races. FP and qualifying are part of that.



So he was aggressive and showed a little vinegar.



Good



At least he's not a "....."

Andy,



Let me give my take on the original topic and the intent without (hopefully) it somehow being seen as an attack or in support of any particular rider/s.



To put it simple, Motocycle Racing is NOT in my opinion a contact sport. It does not as it's primary premise have contact as an integral component of it's sporting rules, requirements or accepted behaviours and to call it a contact sport is (again IMO) totally irresponsible for a person in a position of authority and/or power.



Now, while some may want to see 'fairing bashing' I suspect that those same people do not want to see the consequences but purely perceive it as a specatacle, yet sadly with 'fairing bashing' there is an increased risk of effects that people would regret later and I say this from experience.



I have personally seen riders collide and fall heavily, some requiring hospital treatment and in more than one case a hospital ride. I have assisted medical staff by holding a neck brace on a rider for 90 minutes whilst we tried to stabilise and then extract him from the position in which he had landed all because he farked up and tried to go around the outside of a slower rider in a 'single line' corner.



I have attended to the scene of an accident at Sydney's Oran Park in my role for that time of 'Recovery Crew' (scrutineered first then went to Recovery) where a rider had fallen at Turn 1 after being baulked by a lapped rider on the racing line (no blue flags, the lapped rider did not know the faster rider was there). At the same time a major accident had occurred entering the straight where two riders had fallen, one running over the other and hitting the wall, RED flag. As the turn 1 rider was on his feet and expecting the worst at turn 12, the tower scrambled all three medical teams to the straight.



One of the routines that the regular recovery crew always worked on was question a rider, and ask the same question a few seconds later - was just something we developed as a 'test' of the rider's faculties as we were often in attendance before medical who at times were not sent (despite us regulars requesting medical attend each incident to which we were called). Well on this day the rider answered lucidly on first questioning, but when asked again his eyes glazed over and he complained of numbness from the neck down - we immediately called medical.



Turned out this rider was far worse than the other two who were essentially uninjured - not so the bikes. Our rider had three cracked vertebrae, concussion, broiken collarbone and a few other injuries and we were told months later spent 7 weeks in hospital recovering.



I could go on and on, like the rider who suffered back injuries after a passing rider took his front wheel out entering the flip slop at Oran Park, or the rider (a good mate) who finished under the airfence when shunted wide in a sidecar race, but all who go to these events have seen stuff like this.



Why mention it, well because the arguments have worn thin and the facts remain that in both cases these riders did touch other riders whom they were passing and both riders suffered serious injuries. Were they the worst injuries I saw or the only ones to suffer injuries, no way as I saw many injuries requiring lengthy hospitalisation and recuperation for the rider, some we assisted at the scene, some we waited for authorities but all had causes and repercussions.



To me, when you are at a track and you see the bones and blood, hear the agony of the faller or their trackside mates, witness the incident first hand, see the tears of loved ones, or simply go out and pick up the pieces there is something wrong if you want contact with our sport.



Hard racing and fair passing is one thing, and touches can and will occur but it is not a contact sport nor should it ever become one.









EDIT: I consider very lucky to have been involved in the sport in some way, not just watched it on TV or at the track but been involved, but I consider myself luckier that to date that love has not been destroyed or impacted by being present at a fatal race meeting - I know to many who have and their stories are horrifying.











Gaz

Andy Roo said:

Watched it live, storm in a teacup.



They're competitive,



Even Elias who had the option of getting back on the track to qualify in 18th, or being stopped by the Marshall's and then qualifying in 18th blew his top to gain his opportunity.



What annoys me is that in one thread, where it would seem that we are promoting the idea (rather falsely) that motogp and WSBK are contact sports competitiveness and aggression are desirable qualities, however should the opportunity arise to put the boot into someone who isn't your favorite rider then the opinion is conveniently reversed in order to simply load crap onto that rider.



Stoner is wanting to get results on the board because he had a crash second round and scored no points. He (and every rider on the grid) is not there because they are charitable and raise orphaned kittens and crap like that, they are there to ride hard and win races. FP and qualifying are part of that.



So he was aggressive and showed a little vinegar.



Good



At least he's not a "....."

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Aggression is good. He should do it with his riding, not with his fists. He's feeding it and his reactions are getting worse every session.

Gaz you mentioned Rossi's crash and the need to slow down. The difference is that Stoner doesn't slow down, he just rides through at warp speed and then wonders why he has near misses and much higher risk of mishaps. Note that at Mugello, Rossi didn't choose to ride through the slower riders but chose to go and find clear track. Different approach there. I think a contributing factor is that Stoner only goes out for a few laps at a time so he pushes as hard as he can without allowing for the traffic that he is guaranteed at encountering. This then has the effect that he always appears to be having a run in with someone when he loses his temper.

woody996 said:

Aggression is good. He should do it with his riding, not with his fists. He's feeding it and his reactions are getting worse every session.

Gaz you mentioned Rossi's crash and the need to slow down. The difference is that Stoner doesn't slow down, he just rides through at warp speed and then wonders why he has near misses and much higher risk of mishaps. Note that at Mugello, Rossi didn't choose to ride through the slower riders but chose to go and find clear track. Different approach there. I think a contributing factor is that Stoner only goes out for a few laps at a time so he pushes as hard as he can without allowing for the traffic that he is guaranteed at encountering. This then has the effect that he always appears to be having a run in with someone when he loses his temper.

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Woody, see this I can accept.



Your point about Ross is 100% true in that he chose not to place himself into the situation.



My question that I have asked others (and has thus far not been answered) is why did he make that choice, or moreso, why did he feel he had to make the choice?



If he felt that by slowing he got clear track, why was he afraid (concerned may be a better word) about catching slower riders if he was confident that they would not impede him in his desired task. That is my point - he took that course of action and ultimately it contributed to his leg injury which effectively ruined his 2010 season.



Stoner definitely has a different approach and as such it is obviously an approach that works best for him.



Neither has the right approach, nor the wrong approach but both have had situations with slower riders at times (and likely, both have been that slower rider).











Gaz

Andy Roo said:

Watched it live, storm in a teacup.



They're competitive,



Even Elias who had the option of getting back on the track to qualify in 18th, or being stopped by the Marshall's and then qualifying in 18th blew his top to gain his opportunity.



What annoys me is that in one thread, where it would seem that we are promoting the idea (rather falsely) that motogp and WSBK are contact sports competitiveness and aggression are desirable qualities, however should the opportunity arise to put the boot into someone who isn't your favorite rider then the opinion is conveniently reversed in order to simply load crap onto that rider.



Stoner is wanting to get results on the board because he had a crash second round and scored no points. He (and every rider on the grid) is not there because they are charitable and raise orphaned kittens and crap like that, they are there to ride hard and win races. FP and qualifying are part of that.



So he was aggressive and showed a little vinegar.



Good



At least he's not a "....."

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I don't agree with stoner and lorenzo complaining to the safety committee about rossi's and simoncelli's passing though, if that is what they are doing which motomatters seems to be suggesting; perhaps it is payback for rossi and simoncelli complaining about the weight of riders to that body. I am not aware of any deliberately dangerous moves by simoncelli this year, he has crashed on his own, and rossi's jerez pass whilst boneheaded was not deliberately dangerous; I didn't see the reputed qatar 1st corner attempted pass.

michaelm said:

I didn't see the reputed qatar 1st corner attempted pass.

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It was pretty stupid, so bad it looked like the intension was to just bowling ball the entire grid.



I have to admit I condone those three events 2 by Rossi and 1 by Simo less than I do Stoners punching Randy.



Randy punch could have hurt Randy a bit.



Idiotic riding can kill.



Haven't seen the Randy punch yet but if it is as folk seem to be say it shouldn't have happened.



And Ereb ........ are you kidding about Rossi would never do it ??? I'm sure you are old enough to remember Max and Rossi and their antics

BarryMachine said:

It was pretty stupid, so bad it looked like the intension was to just bowling ball the entire grid.



I have to admit I condone those three events 2 by Rossi and 1 by Simo less than I do Stoners punching Randy.



Randy punch could have hurt Randy a bit.



Idiotic riding can kill.



Haven't seen the Randy punch yet but if it is as folk seem to be say it shouldn't have happened.



And Ereb ........ are you kidding about Rossi would never do it ???

I'm sure you are old enough to remember Max and Rossi and their antics

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Unfortunately I am quite old. I remember Max leading with his elbow and running Vale into the dirt at Suzuka. The next lap pass when Rossi flicked him the bird was cruel but fair - actually didn't he ride round the ourside of him come to think of it? To be fair the only real physical exchange that I'm aware of was confined to a stairwell at Catalunya...and that was merely a mosquito bite



On track I've never seen Valentino strike an opponent, gesticulate sure, but never lash out. With Max, Rossi never needed to given the hail of mind bullets he peppered him with every race

Arrabbiata1 said:

Unfortunately I am quite old. I remember Max leading with his elbow and running Vale into the dirt at Suzuka. The next lap pass when Rossi flicked him the bird was cruel but fair - actually didn't he ride round the ourside of him come to think of it? To be fair the only real physical exchange that I'm aware of was confined to a stairwell at Catalunya...and that was merely a mosquito bite

On track I've never seen Valentino strike an opponent, gesticulate sure, but never lash out. With Max, Rossi never needed to with the hail of mind bullets he unleashed on him every race

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Arrab, likewise on the Rossi front but wasn't there a push/shove last year or the years before?



I can't recall with certainty but I have a vague recollection of two riders in a gravel trap having a heft push/shove match (and nope, not the Hayden one)













Gaz

Gaz said:

Arrab, likewise on the Rossi front but wasn't there a push/shove last year or the years before?



I can't recall with certainty but I have a vague recollection of two riders in a gravel trap having a heft push/shove match (and nope, not the Hayden one)













Gaz

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I remember Hodgson and Slighty at Sugo in WSBk, but the issue here is on bike contact while riding, and I've never seen Valentino lash out at anyone in the style of Casey.

Arrabbiata1 said:

I remember Hodgson and Slighty at Sugo in WSBk, but the issue here is on bike contact while riding, and I've never seen Valentino lash out at anyone in the style of Casey.

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Nor have I seen him do the punch type of thing - wave, gesticulate, stare yes but not the punch





No, not Hodgson and Slight - sure it was recent, like last two years and was not MotoGP but feeder class - watch, it will come to me in 2 weeks when this thread has 1084 pages



I also remember Yates in the US with teh dropkick.







Either way, I recall similar issues but only ever after and incident and in the sand trap (aside from Bazza grabbing the exhaust pipe that is)













Gaz