I think that every rider has the right to discuss these things if they feel the need to. Lorenzo same everybody else. And according to some reports (see here: http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/slider/3699-stoner-beffa-sic-sotto-la-bandiera.html) there were other riders who side with Lorenzo on this. (Barberà, Elias, Pedrosa, Stoner and Dovizioso).
Butler: “Roadracing Is A Contact Sport,”
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I think that every rider has the right to discuss these things if they feel the need to. Lorenzo same everybody else. And according to some reports (see here: http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/slider/3699-stoner-beffa-sic-sotto-la-bandiera.html) there were other riders who side with Lorenzo on this. (Barberà, Elias, Pedrosa, Stoner and Dovizioso).
That's pretty predictable - stoner dovi Barbara etc. I was interested to know who sided with Lorenzo and to be honest, the only one who has any credibility is stoner... Because he is a world champion. If stoner didn't dish out .... to people every second day, I'd have a lot more time for him. I have more respect for stoner (and others) raising issues off the track than uncontrolled road rage on the track. My Australian patriotism would start to come through.
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The Eurosport guys today were saying Spies is in that group as well, or at least that Spies has an issue with Simoncelli's riding.
Probably means if you look at the harm he has brought to himself and his competitors, few riders will have come out safer in this era.
........, the idea that safetey concerns from slower motpgp riders are less credible is ridiculous. They may have less weight and media attention in the paddock, but their concerns need to be discussed and addressed just as much as anyone elses, ALL of them take the same risks out there.
Lorenzo took to the outside of Dani at the last turn on the penultimate lap last year at Jerez, as he turned in Dani was inside him and they touched. As Lorenzo was making the pass you could argue it was his responsibility to ensure he was ahead before he attempted to make the corner, although i'm sure he would argue that he had the line and Dani let off the breakes to get inside him. Classic example of racing contact where no wrong was done on either part, un-suprisingly nobody complained.
Can you name a few of Simoncelli's faults since he has began in motogp? especially against these riders you just named.
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Credibility is of no importance. If riders want to be more active in self-regulating safety, it should be applauded, regardless of their motives or what they have done in the past. What matters is that all will be held accountable by the decision taken in the safety commission.
Remember when Senna started to be the voice of reason in the F1 paddock? The same guy that was so incredibly aggressive in his overtaking.
As for you're remarks about Stoner, you could of course also turn the issue around: if Stoner would have had enough influence in the safety commission in the first place, maybe he could have pushed harder for clear rules in defining and dealing with potentially dangerous situations caused by slow riders on the racing line, and wouldn't be in need to do his fist-waving on track so much.
It was on a last lap of a gp last year, i think Jerez, where Pedrosa was leading the race and Lorenzo rode a great race that day, he made some 3 or 4 seconds up on two riders with 2 laps to go. he also ruined Hayden's race once in 2009 at a start. btw i dont have problems with those moves, i only mean it isn't like he hasn't made faults himself in the past.
Sepang last year he was pretty rough with Aoyama
I don't think he was showing off at all, Pedrosa covered the inside and with Lorenzo's speed advantage he went the other way
Maybe not, but they have likely harmed themselves more than Rossi has harmed himself
Lorenzo and Stoner's posse has no credibility but Rossi's posse of Capirossi and Simoncelli does????? Exactly how many MotoGP WC's do these guys have. Capirossi may as well drive the safety car if he wants to have an opinion according to you seeing as though he is so slow.
Exactly.
Butler is a puppet and Rossi is one of the people pulling the strings. Stoner used to attend the safety meetings but stopped because his opinion was not worth anything and it was only Rossi who was listened to.
This whole saga is the young guys wrestling away the controlling interest in the sport from the old guard. Good on them I say. They are conducting an assault on multiple fronts now against the bias that is rife in MotoGP. This is prevalent on track where their speed is now superior, in the media where they are calling out loud about the incidents that demonstrate it and now in the safety meetings. And whilst this all happens arrogance is blinding the old guard into pathetic 'child' and '.....' comments.
Whats your solution to slower riders on track then genius? Mirrors? what you think they should penalize them for being on the racing line? how are you going to prove what the rider is doing? At what point are they guilty if they just don't have the same pace?
This has been happening for as long as Motorcycles have been racing and qualifying. They share the track! Qualifying and practice is an art the same as the race.
The most prolific, and really the only ..... on the subject is Stoner, so far he's pretty much had a go at over half the paddock.........and the only one who should be penalized is Stoner, for disrespectful, and dangerous behavior-surely he should have both hands on the bars as much as possible, clearly all this waving and patting and fist pumping is not good for the stability of the machine at these speeds? and for this he is a definite repeat offender!
He is a world class motorcycle racer and you think he can't control a bike with only one hand on the bars? I bet even you can ride your BMX with only one hand. Man you are pathetic in your attempts to make Stoner a villain at every turn.
As far as you are concerned Stoner should be penalised for beating Rossi in 2007.
Easy.
Tough rough direction who issue penalties to riders deemed to place others in danger by their on track actions regardless of whether that rider be Valentino Rossi, Casey Stoner or any other rider on track at the meeting within their control.
A fair, equitable and consistent application of the said rules and penalties imposed for these actions that have been deemed dangerous.
By applying consistency throughout the racing categories you do not get riders thinking they are above the rules, or simply riders who have not been punished for actions that are considered dangerous. If riders do not know they are creating a danger thence they cannot amke the changes needed to ensure they no longer provide that danger.
And complaints have been there about slow riders on racing lines since day 1 as well.
I even recall a time where certain riders made mention that they would like to 'deck' (I think the words were) a certain mobile chicane in years gone by.
Your obsession is admirable but Stoner is not the only one who displays his anger either on track or off it, but yes he does certainly display this frustration/anger often and that is not for agrument.
As for the stability aspect - good fishing as it you genuinely believed that you would not be so anti electronics as wheelies result in more instability that would a hand off the handlebar.
Gaz
Right then, so how do you deem a rider trying to get a set-up right finding the balance on the racing line, like Hiroshi was yesterday, to be placing other riders in danger?
At what point is a rider knowingly placing another in danger by going slower during FP and QP? And how do you prove this?
And then where do you draw the line on penalties administered and what varying degrees of penalty would be considered fair and equitable for these different hypothesized incidents?
i.e should Hiroshi be given a time penalty or a financial penalty? How much time should be taken off his qualifying for going a bit slower than Stoner whilst he was trying to get a set-up sorted, and happened to be in front of him on the last turn exit?
Should the penalties therefore be administered based on what part of the circuit the incident happens? Should being on the racing line at corner entry whilst a faster rider is behind in FP/QP be deemed more dangerous than mid-corner, corner exit or on the straight, therefore requiring a higher penalty?
Are Stoners hand waving, Fist pumping, arse patting actions around other riders, especially Hiroshi yesterday whilst he was going past at god knows what speed one handed pumping his fist and looking at Hiroshi (not where he was going) while the bike was viciously accelerating and wobbling to be considered placing the other rider in danger? I think so. Especially as it was for no reason that couldn't have been sorted out off track afterwards, this then requires a penalty surely?
And lastly, how many serious incidents have occurred during FP/QP in the last 10 years in relation to slower riders being on the racing line that have resulted in crashes or injury? For these stats will provide the answer on whether or not this is just Stoner Bitching or a probable issue that require serious attention from Dorna.
So why change it now then?
Because Casey says so?
So he actually was going slowly was he
The last 10 minutes of qualifying just out of a blind corner is not the time and place to be looking for a race set-up, not that he would get much information concerning same at that pace. Not sure why he was going so slowly but I doubt it was for that reason ; I am quite a fan of aoyama's and think he should ahve a full factory bike btw.
Why is stoner always in the wrong? Because talpa says so. You again also confect a preposterous theoretical danger in response to clear actual danger.
First off, I am commenting in general and not specific to yesterday's alleged incident and yes I say alleged as in some areas it is being reported that Aoyama was 'significantly slower' than was Stoner and that the 'closing speed was frightening'. Assuming this to be true and both being on similar bikes (recognising that Aoyama is not Stoner) it would seem fair that the closing speed would nit be 'significant', but that is also a matter of opinion.
That said, when I see the incident I will revisit it as I have done in the past
Now, this is where you come good and ask some bloody deep seated serious questions and there really is no definitive answer that we can give as we are not on track, nor do we have access to everything related to the incident despite us often believing we know all about it.
Fact is that those in race direction etc have far better resources at their disposal then do we when to comes to such matters and this is where the problem seems to be as many question race directions impartiality and from reading the full interview I say justifiably question it.
The last paragraph is an interesting one and in short my answer would be no, all positions are deserving of the same penalty but the over-riding factor here is that their should only be a penalty when the offence is deemed as dangerous and as such a rider on his 'true practice' laps is likely not to be deemed dangerously slow. Basically, if they look at time sheets sector by sector they should be able to determine what occurred and whether there was an issue in the sector in question.
So should Ducati be penalised for a bucking weaving heathen of a motorcycle as by your comments it could be deemed unsafe?
Seriously Talpa, you have again let your pure hatred of Stoner impact your judgement of the 'level' of the offence. If you consider Stoners most recent 'offence' to be such taht it is deserving of a penalty I do hope that you show consistency when others perform the same act.
Additionally, what about a wheelie where a lofted front wheel surely is incredibly dangerous, surely that rider should have their racing licence removed forthwith as they clearly have no concern for those around them.
No real idea, but what about by extension?
Last year we have one Valentino Rossi suffer an injury resulting in his leg hanging by a thread (if some were to be believed - J4rn0
When he spoke of the accident he explained it as saying that he had slowed to obtain clear track and the tyre cooled a little more than anticipated (paraphrasing). Why did he slow for clear track?
Obviously this need for clear track is caused by slower riders being online isn't it?
So why change it now then?
Because Casey says so?
Stoner is not asking for rules to be changed, nor penalties imposed is he?
Gaz
Therefore should Aoyama be punished? And how so if it is a matter of opinion?
This is where it gets interesting. For it would be impossible to blanket these incidents as the same, as they can occur at different parts of the circuit under many varying different circumstances. Therefore it is unfair to punish a rider of something fairly innocent the same as a repeat offender of things more dangerous.
And then how do they define 'Dangerous', and is this Dangerous behavior with intent or just a mistake? Was Aoyama intentionally placing Stoner in Danger yesterday? And how can this be proved? During practice and QP you cannot just look at split times and averages to then determine what the rider should have been doing at a particular point in time, especially considering the amount of adjustment these machines posses. And if the rider made a 'mistake' or misjudged another riders proximity whilst trying to pilot a Motogp bike around at warp speed then surely this couldn't fall under your 'blanket' style regulation? And if it did, it would be considered 'unfair' to the rider in question, especially if the rule is intended to punish riders with intent to block.
Not at all, have another look at the incident, Stoner is clearly not looking where he is going-looking behind actually, whilst fist-pumping one handed under full acceleration wobbling going past Aoyama. Surely you can see the utter hypocrisy and bias in calling for 'safer racing' then behaving like this???? I'm not the one calling for penalties for riders being on the racing line.
No real idea, but what about by extension?
Last year we have one Valentino Rossi suffer an injury resulting in his leg hanging by a thread (if some were to be believed - J4rn0) .
When he spoke of the accident he explained it as saying that he had slowed to obtain clear track and the tyre cooled a little more than anticipated (paraphrasing). Why did he slow for clear track?
Obviously this need for clear track is caused by slower riders being online isn't it?
Yes but Rossi, in this instance, was not posing a 'danger' to any other rider......which is the point btw.
Are you sure he's not? He is certainly very animated on track about it, no? Like I said it could have been dealt with afterwards by him simply going to have a chat to Hiroshi and conveying his POV on the matter. This would have been the 'safe' and more effective thing to do wouldn't you agree?
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