Burgess defends Rossi's tyre move

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2008, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dorna and the FIM subsidize rider salaries or boost riders from key markets onto good machines. They don't even try to hide it any longer. Nicky probably benefited from these tactics, his career has suffered as a result. Every achievement he makes is viewed with skepticism. The same is true for Stoner.

Too bad you seem to be so eager to sign your man up for the same disdain.

Me? think not. I put a big questionmark around the whole "deal?".
What I do point out is that what others get without anyone lifting an eye brow make people here go balitic when Rossi may or may not have recived similar preference.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (raven46 @ Jan 5 2008, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think G.W.B. showed us that if you have enough muscle and powerfull influence with the backing of a lot of people there is no such thing as fair or right and wrong

Man that is a scary statement. Are you involved in organized crime?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Jan 7 2008, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Man that is a scary statement. Are you involved in organized crime?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 6 2008, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WHY and HOW he got the tyres he wanted is immaterial, as long as WHAT he got is NOT something unfair or that can give him a headstart.

And it isn't. Most riders already have that same rubber!

One could easily reverse your logic and call the impossibility to get the Bridgestones an 'unfair disadvantage'

Try this......

If it wasn't for Dorna steeping in and issuing the ultimatum, would Bridgestone given Rossi, and Rossi ONLY, tires? If so, why would Bridgestone NOT want to take Pedrosa and Hayden? That would surely give Bridgestone a maority of the riders on the grid and they would then NOT care if there was a spec tire rule next year.

If Bridgestone would have come out and said no the first time and then said okay, I don't think there would be as much controversy as there is now. It is the fact that they said no not once but twice....Then after pressue from Dorna, they caved in BUT only to taking on Rossi.

I think they should just put everyone on Dunlops since there is no real data for them. Then no one really has any advantage. Or maybe you change tire manu every year. Put in a 3 year rotation. Dunlop, Michelin and Bridgestone!!!!!! Now that would make for some exciting racing!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2008, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I also see where the 'problem' is now: you look at principles, in a kind of abstract way.
Assuming Ezpeleta did something for Rossi which does not give him any unfair advantage (and is even right in my opinion, because i think tyre suppliers should not discriminate their customers), nonetheless you find fault with that because (you think that) Ezpeleta would not do the same for everybody....?

Did Ezpeleta also argue and get Pedrosa and Hayden Bridgestones? Nope. Only Rossi. Why? Are Pedrosa and Hayden gridded up on the same grid as Rossi? Yes. So, by your logic, why did Pedrosa and Hayden get the Bridgestones as well?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jan 6 2008, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have no idea what you do for a crust, but I, as an engineering contractor, have been in a position where I have "threatened" employers that if they verbally guarantee a new contract when my old one expires whilst I am on holiday and then I come back to find I have not been renewed as promised, I will take a dim view of things, even to the extent of once telling my boss that I knew where he lived...

If you think that my behaviour is unacceptable on this kind of thing, then I can see why you think that Rossi's is. But really all I am trying to do is ensure the best environment for me to do my job.

Is Rossi really any different?



Rossi using his popularity and clout to obtain tires from a company that was previously unwilling to supply him is plain wrong. It isn't the same as producing the best overall package through R&D; this is under-handed, political maneuvering.

What I find most strange is the fact that Rossi has traditioanlly been heralded as a rider so great that he could overcome disparities between his equipment and that of his challengers. Now, some here applaud him for apparently weilding control over the sport's governing body and getting his way. So, which is it? Valentino Rossi, The Doctor, the racing hero who throws his leg over the under-powered Yamaha and valiantly defeats the better-equipped opposition? Or Valentino Rossi the savvy businessman, the backroom dealer, the mover and shaker who has the deck stacked in his favor and can pressure Bridgestone to give him tires?

Had I been a Rossi fan since 2004, I would feel disappointed, perhaps cheated.

For all those who are unhappy with this turn of events, there is a bright side. Nicky won the title in 2006 with luck. Stoner won the '07 title because he had the best bike. Well, if Rossi wins this year's championship, he will have done so because he had Dorna pressure Bridgestone into supplying him with tires.

Is there absolute proof that this is indeed what occurred? Is there an official press release stating how Rossi came to be on 'Stones this year? No. However, when you do the math, the rationalization makes as much, if not more, sense than those that plagued the two most recent Moto GP champs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 7 2008, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To answer your question, yes, I don't think Ezp would do that for everybody. That's been my point that some how you've missed.
....................
I personally think they should have gone to a control tire and take the tire "advantage/disadvantage" perception out of it. But I think maybe this is another topic.

I had not missed your point, I just do not agree with it. Why? Because I remember well the whole course of these events... And it was never about Rossi alone.

When Ezpeleta started the control tyre 'threat' it wasn't just Yamaha (on Rossi's behalf), but also Honda (in the name of Pedrosa and Hayden) asking for Bridgestones but receiving a NO. This (that Honda also asked for the Bridgestones and was refused) is on public record.

So one could see this scenario unfolding: a tyre supplier, the (perceived) dominant one, refusing to supply important contenders like Yamaha and Honda (and thus obliging them to race with a potential handicap and heavily conditioning the outcome of future MotoGP races!) Would that be fair? Of course not.

But why was Bridgestone refusing? Probably because of contracts signed with other manufacturers which contained restrictive clauses - unless you want to believe the 'insufficient capacity' pretext.

Then, because of such a situation, Ezpeleta threatened the control tyre. I think it was more than a threat, actually. That sent both Michelin and Bridgestone running around like crazy, and as a result Bridgestone conceded to supply 2 more riders (the press was already imagining Rossi and Pedrosa both on Stones...). If in the end only Rossi got them, it is because Honda eventually preferred to stick with Michelin, while Yamaha accepted.

So you see, it wasn't for Rossi only. There is one thing I agree with you 100%: I also would have preferred a control tyre to this patched up 'solution'.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (machmanzx10r @ Jan 7 2008, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did Ezpeleta also argue and get Pedrosa and Hayden Bridgestones? Nope. Only Rossi. Why? Are Pedrosa and Hayden gridded up on the same grid as Rossi? Yes. So, by your logic, why did Pedrosa and Hayden get the Bridgestones as well?


i think your wrong

did hayden ask for bridgestones? i know dani did, your asking why dani didnt get them well it was probably down to honda at the end of the day because they didnt want to use that rubber and have to develop the bike around bridgestones especially when hayden won 2006 and dani come second 2007,yamaha know in there heads how good rossi is and if hes not winning they obviously know there is something wrong and they need to start using different options, there is no ilegal play here the difference is yamaha was up for giving the stones a chance and spliting garages and honda was not, probably because they work better on the honda than they do on the yamaha, im sure if yamaha didnt think rossi had a chance of wining again they wouldnt split the garages and go to all this trouble for him to use the stones, i dont think yamaha want to use bridgestone rubber but they have to do something because they are starting to fall behind, rossi walking is probably on there minds to and thats the last thing they want.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 6 2008, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What are you talking about? Have I called you "gay" and meant it in a bad way? If so, I unequivocally apologize, but I doubt it happened maliciously.

I think he was referring to my remark about Rog wanting to frolic with Rossi on a grassy hillside.

I take exception to Babel calling me a gay basher though. There is a world of difference between a little bromance and jack hammering male backside.

Sorry to take it there but somebody had to drop the g-bomb.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2008, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When Ezpeleta started the control tyre 'threat' it wasn't just Yamaha (on Rossi's behalf), but also Honda (in the name of Pedrosa and Hayden) asking for Bridgestones but receiving a NO. This (that Honda also asked for the Bridgestones and was refused) is on public record.

Were there tracks this year where Michelin was clearly the best tire? What was one of them? Let me help you:

<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%Mugello

Do you really think Rossi is afraid of riding against Pedrosa on the same tires?! Rossi whooped Pedrosa all season. The only two races Pedrosa won this year were races where Rossi binned it or retired. Rossi won 4, on a bike that clearly had some issues as well.

Do you think Rossi is ready to hand Honda 10kph and better rubber at MUGELLO?! Of course Rossi and Ezy wanted a control tire. Ezy gets to look impartial, Rossi gets to make sure a Michelin runner doesn't end his Mugello run.

Clairvoyance people. In Ezy's mind, Rossi must win at Mugello; especially, if they are going to give him everything he wants to keep ratings up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2008, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I had not missed your point, I just do not agree with it. Why? Because I remember well the whole course of these events... And it was never about Rossi alone.

When Ezpeleta started the control tyre 'threat' it wasn't just Yamaha (on Rossi's behalf), but also Honda (in the name of Pedrosa and Hayden) asking for Bridgestones but receiving a NO. This (that Honda also asked for the Bridgestones and was refused) is on public record.

So one could see this scenario unfolding: a tyre supplier, the (perceived) dominant one, refusing to supply important contenders like Yamaha and Honda (and thus obliging them to race with a potential handicap and heavily conditioning the outcome of future MotoGP races!) Would that be fair? Of course not.

But why was Bridgestone refusing? Probably because of contracts signed with other manufacturers which contained restrictive clauses - unless you want to believe the 'insufficient capacity' pretext.

Then, because of such a situation, Ezpeleta threatened the control tyre. I think it was more than a threat, actually. That sent both Michelin and Bridgestone running around like crazy, and as a result Bridgestone conceded to supply 2 more riders (the press was already imagining Rossi and Pedrosa both on Stones...). If in the end only Rossi got them, it is because Honda eventually preferred to stick with Michelin, while Yamaha accepted.

So you see, it wasn't for Rossi only. There is one thing I agree with you 100%: I also would have preferred a control tyre to this patched up 'solution'. Jeez J4rno, take off the rossi tints here buddy, fiat yamaha and repsol honda expressed a desire to use the stones and were refused twice. It was only when rossi spat the dummy that ezzy steeped in and theatenned to impose the control tyre.

You gotta be joking. Do you really expect anyone of sound mind to buy your line implying that bridgestones' refusal to increase their motogp supply as...... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>thus obliging them ( yamaha & honda ) to race with a potential handicap and heavily conditioning the outcome of future MotoGP races

That's a heap of crap man. don't take it personally but if i were to follow your logic then it would have been fair for rossi to ask for a desmocedici after qatar, better still, i'm cracking up as i'm typing this, it would be unfair for them to refuse his request. See what i mean? Whay not re-run a few rounds while you're at it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jan 7 2008, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jeez J4rno, take off the rossi tints here buddy, fiat yamaha and repsol honda expressed a desire to use the stones and were refused twice. It was only when rossi spat the dummy that ezzy steeped in and theatenned to impose the control tyre.

You gotta be joking. Do you really expect anyone of sound mind to buy your line implying that bridgestones' refusal to increase their motogp supply as......

That's a heap of crap man. don't take it personally but if i were to follow your logic then it would have been fair for rossi to ask for a desmocedici after qatar, better still, i'm cracking up as i'm typing this, it would be unfair for them to refuse his request. See what i mean? Whay not re-run a few rounds while you're at it?
them yellow tinted spectacles....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2008, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think he was referring to my remark about Rog wanting to frolic with Rossi on a grassy hillside.

I take exception to Babel calling me a gay basher though. There is a world of difference between a little bromance and jack hammering male backside.

Sorry to take it there but somebody had to drop the g-bomb.
ah, i took it as a laugh, and my responce was ment light hearted too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jan 7 2008, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> them yellow tinted spectacles....It's like the ....... twilight zone man. Dawn of the dead stuff, a sea of yellow shirts, a collective conciousness all chanting "vale....you....are....always....right", actually a bit like reading MCN.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (machmanzx10r @ Jan 7 2008, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did Ezpeleta also argue and get Pedrosa and Hayden Bridgestones? Nope. Only Rossi. Why? Are Pedrosa and Hayden gridded up on the same grid as Rossi? Yes. So, by your logic, why did Pedrosa and Hayden get the Bridgestones as well?

I already answered this elsewhere - the road was open for Pedrosa at least to also get the Bridgestones, but Honda decided to stick with Michelin for both riders. That's all. It's their bet, maybe they are right, maybe not...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jan 7 2008, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>........
That's a heap of crap man. don't take it personally but if i were to follow your logic then it would have been fair for rossi to ask for a desmocedici after qatar, better still, i'm cracking up as i'm typing this, it would be unfair for them to refuse his request. See what i mean? Whay not re-run a few rounds while you're at it?

Nope, that's not my logic at all. I never mix apples with potatoes Ducati Yamaha and Honda are contenders in MotoGP, tyre manufacturers are not - they are only suppliers to these contenders. There is no title for best rubber! So, as suppliers, they should not discriminate their customers. Simple.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2008, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Were there tracks this year where Michelin was clearly the best tire? What was one of them? Let me help you:

<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%Mugello

Do you really think Rossi is afraid of riding against Pedrosa on the same tires?! Rossi whooped Pedrosa all season. The only two races Pedrosa won this year were races where Rossi binned it or retired. Rossi won 4, on a bike that clearly had some issues as well.

Do you think Rossi is ready to hand Honda 10kph and better rubber at MUGELLO?! Of course Rossi and Ezy wanted a control tire. Ezy gets to look impartial, Rossi gets to make sure a Michelin runner doesn't end his Mugello run.

Clairvoyance people. In Ezy's mind, Rossi must win at Mugello; especially, if they are going to give him everything he wants to keep ratings up.

Hmmm, I see it differently. Rossi is a rider who needs to race physically against a precise rival to ride at his best - so he wanted the Bridgestones because he wants to race directly against the strongest rider who emergest last year: Stoner.

Rossi is not so interested in continuing to win duels against Pedrosa on Michelin tracks, it's not as interesting to him. The man has many defects but he is a sincere race animal. He really wants to duel with Stoner, and in 2007 he was furious he could do that only rarely. Ezpeleta has different concerns, sometimes these concerns may coincide but they are not the same as Rossi's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 8 2008, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmmm, I see it differently. Rossi is a rider who needs to race physically against a precise rival to ride at his best - so he wanted the Bridgestones because he wants to race directly against the strongest rider who emergest last year: Stoner.

Rossi is not so interested in continuing to win duels against Pedrosa on Michelin tracks, it's not as interesting to him. The man has many defects but he is a sincere race animal. He really wants to duel with Stoner, and in 2007 he was furious he could do that only rarely. Ezpeleta has different concerns, sometimes these concerns may coincide but they are not the same as Rossi's.
I think this is the essence of it. The only issue for me is how much dorna is manipulating the sport, and whether this is in the long-term interests of the sport. I have absolutely no problem with rossi being on bridgestones per se, and I am a stoner fan. You actually seem to be quite a fan of stoner's too.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2008, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I already answered this elsewhere - the road was open for Pedrosa at least to also get the Bridgestones, but Honda decided to stick with Michelin for both riders. That's all. It's their bet, maybe they are right, maybe not... This is too easy so I'll type with one hand behind my back
I reckon Yamaha had sort of decided to run with Michelin for four guys, if what I read was correct. That was Yamaha's bet, they pay the wages. It was all decided as far as we were informed but someone didn't wanna play ball and decided to cynically manipulate the whole show. He's made life difficult for a whole lot of people at Yamaha, ironically it may turn out that he's made it most difficult for himself.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2008, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nope, that's not my logic at all. I never mix apples with potatoes Ducati Yamaha and Honda are contenders in MotoGP, tyre manufacturers are not - they are only suppliers to these contenders. There is no title for best rubber! So, as suppliers, they should not discriminate their customers. Simple. Ok Captain Cryptic, explain that one in the context of how it was unfair for Bridgestone to up their supply, please. Considering all along, even in the previous season, they made it clear that their level of involvement was adequate, the prinicple reason that it was good for competition. Do you forget how great the news was when they first entered motoGP, how great it would be to have some competition among tyre manufacturers? Or is it because you only see it as unfair when they refuse to supply one particular guy? Dumb question, of course it is.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 8 2008, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmmm, I see it differently. Rossi is a rider who needs to race physically against a precise rival to ride at his best - so he wanted the Bridgestones because he wants to race directly against the strongest rider who emergest last year: Stoner.

Rossi is not so interested in continuing to win duels against Pedrosa on Michelin tracks, it's not as interesting to him.

The man has many defects but he is a sincere race animal. He really wants to duel with Stoner, and in 2007 he was furious he could do that only rarely. Ezpeleta has different concerns, sometimes these concerns may coincide but they are not the same as Rossi's.Man, put the crack pipe down!!!
Rossi is a rider who needs to win another world title real quick to hold onto any shred of credibility. I would imagine he's also very intersted in kicking Pedrosa's ... at every opportunity, at any track, if it involves a duel, even better. The man is a race animal.......wow that's dedication...or is it hero-worship? I'm speechless

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2008, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think he was referring to my remark about Rog wanting to frolic with Rossi on a grassy hillside.

I take exception to Babel calling me a gay basher though. There is a world of difference between a little bromance and jack hammering male backside.

Sorry to take it there but somebody had to drop the g-bomb.
Oh was that the problem? Was that the comment that flustered poor Babel into a rant? Aaaah, that's sooooooo gay.

Babel check out these interesting quotes before you get all sensitive on me and start crying foul play:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Could you please stop being so "holier than thow"…

So get down from your high horse…

Shut the .... up…

Who do you think I’m quoting here? Oh ...., that’s you my dear friend. Dude, its all good, we can take it and so should you. I don’t think its getting ugly. We can get ugly, I’m sure you’ve seen it, and we are no where near ugly (with the exception of Roger’s scary facial hair).


Come on people, we have all been putting in overtime on this thread and I'm loving every word of it. It’s not out of line to spice it up with banter, as long as it doesn't get malicious—and from my perspective it hasn’t yet, so please lets not stifle the wit and clever quips. Come on Babel, it wasn't that harsh man, and besides, it was only Rog he was talking about. (Oh wait, you took issue with the nuance that maybe Rossi is gay, ah I understand your apprehension now). And you thought I was on a high horse? <<Relax, Babel,I'm just breaking your balls (not sure if they use this saying where you're from but it means, just giving you a hard time) this was my lame attempt at humor buddy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Jan 7 2008, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Rossi using his popularity and clout to obtain tires from a company that was previously unwilling to supply him is plain wrong. It isn't the same as producing the best overall package through R&D; this is under-handed, political maneuvering.

What I find most strange is the fact that Rossi has traditioanlly been heralded as a rider so great that he could overcome disparities between his equipment and that of his challengers. Now, some here applaud him for apparently weilding control over the sport's governing body and getting his way. So, which is it? Valentino Rossi, The Doctor, the racing hero who throws his leg over the under-powered Yamaha and valiantly defeats the better-equipped opposition? Or Valentino Rossi the savvy businessman, the backroom dealer, the mover and shaker who has the deck stacked in his favor and can pressure Bridgestone to give him tires?

Had I been a Rossi fan since 2004, I would feel disappointed, perhaps cheated.

For all those who are unhappy with this turn of events, there is a bright side. Nicky won the title in 2006 with luck. Stoner won the '07 title because he had the best bike. Well, if Rossi wins this year's championship, he will have done so because he had Dorna pressure Bridgestone into supplying him with tires.

Is there absolute proof that this is indeed what occurred? Is there an official press release stating how Rossi came to be on 'Stones this year? No. However, when you do the math, the rationalization makes as much, if not more, sense than those that plagued the two most recent Moto GP champs.

Sometimes you come across a post that should be bronzed and pinned up permanently. This is the one of this thread.