Burgess defends Rossi's tyre move

Here is a compilation of the best witty quips of this thread. Thanks for the laughs guys (you know who you are). Lets not stifle the humor. Carry on.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>> Alice in ....... wonderland

> it's pathetic fan's like myself that buy into it

> Ok Captain Cryptic

> It's like the ....... twilight zone man. Dawn of the dead stuff


> Even though the WWF is staged they are still really hitting and slamming one another.

> I must contact Autosport and find out how they managed to get this part in invisible ink.

> and please keep your homosexual fantasies to your self, jumkies getting excited

And best two quips of the thread:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>> Man that is a scary statement. Are you involved in organized crime?

and
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>> This is too easy so I'll type with one hand behind my back


I envy these last two, I wish I could have come up with them myself.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Man that is a scary statement. Are you involved in organized crime?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jan 8 2008, 02:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is too easy so I'll type with one hand behind my back
I reckon Yamaha had sort of decided to run with Michelin for four guys, if what I read was correct. That was Yamaha's bet, they pay the wages. It was all decided as far as we were informed but someone didn't wanna play ball and decided to cynically manipulate the whole show. He's made life difficult for a whole lot of people at Yamaha, ironically it may turn out that he's made it most difficult for himself.


Ok Captain Cryptic, explain that one in the context of how it was unfair for Bridgestone to up their supply, please. Considering all along, even in the previous season, they made it clear that their level of involvement was adequate, the prinicple reason that it was good for competition. Do you forget how great the news was when they first entered motoGP, how great it would be to have some competition among tyre manufacturers? Or is it because you only see it as unfair when they refuse to supply one particular guy? Dumb question, of course it is.


Man, put the crack pipe down!!!
Rossi is a rider who needs to win another world title real quick to hold onto any shred of credibility. I would imagine he's also very intersted in kicking Pedrosa's ... at every opportunity, at any track, if it involves a duel, even better. The man is a race animal.......wow that's dedication...or is it hero-worship? I'm speechless

It is generally safer to keep both hands on the handlebars mate, they help one staying on track
Yamaha were playing their game just like Honda and the others - the difference is only that at Honda they are bossy with their riders and impose them their decisions, at Yamaha they are kind of more benevolent and try to make everybody happy.

Competition among tyre suppliers? It is wonderful, assuming the ones who win that competition (i.e. develop the best tyres) are then ready to honour their name and SUPPLY those who come begging for their goods, without discrimination based on commercial contracts.
If that is not the case, - and it is not - then a control tyre is the lesser evil.

So you do not consider Rossi a born racer, uh? I wonder what a rider has to do to convince you!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 8 2008, 03:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh was that the problem? Was that the comment that flustered poor Babel into a rant? Aaaah, that's sooooooo gay.

Not really, it was just one of many reamarks but I guess the one that made me rant was this one: "Zieg Heil, MotoGP Fuhrer Rossi!" but it was also the general tone in the first two pages in this tread I reacted on. It wasn't even until now I rememberd that Rossi were even mentioned in that sentense, it just using hitling in this setting and on this forum at all that puts me off.
The temperature has sinse droped considerably. Notably as some of you who constantly called the comercial rights holder for the governing body over several treads and then got that explained it has calmed down.
Wasn't it the referee you compared Dorna with. I think maybe Bud Light's role in Super ball make a better comparison ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 9 2008, 01:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wasn't it the referee you compared Dorna with. I think maybe Bud Light's role in Super ball make a better comparison ?
What's Super ball??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jan 9 2008, 02:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> What's Super ball??

I'm sure RJ and the other americans can fill in here but in general it's suposed to be the "grand finale" of american football.
Outside us most famous for the ban of .... flashing and high prices for comercials.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 9 2008, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm sure RJ and the other americans can fill in here but in general it's suposed to be the "grand finale" of american football.
Outside us most famous for the ban of .... flashing and high prices for comercials.
Ah, you mean Super Bowl

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 8 2008, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not really, it was just one of many reamarks but I guess the one that made me rant was this one: "Zieg Heil, MotoGP Fuhrer Rossi!" but it was also the general tone in the first two pages in this tread I reacted on. It wasn't even until now I rememberd that Rossi were even mentioned in that sentense, it just using hitling in this setting and on this forum at all that puts me off.
The temperature has sinse droped considerably. Notably as some of you who constantly called the comercial rights holder for the governing body over several treads and then got that explained it has calmed down.
Wasn't it the referee you compared Dorna with. I think maybe Bud Light's role in Super ball make a better comparison ?

You and Yamaka keep caning the idea that there is a coalition running the sport. The insiders, notably Noyes (he worked for Dorna), say otherwise.

Ezy calls the shots. He has the confidence of the FIM. It doesn't matter what you see in the sport's by-laws. I happen to trust Noyes' assessment because he claims he worked for DORNA during the early days when they were breaking the backs of the corrupt local and state promoters who were holding the sport back. He laments that DORNA is now the corrupt force compelling the madness of recent years. He's gone from indoctrinated to objective. It seems he sees things he can't avoid criticizing.

Super Ball would make more sense.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 8 2008, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not really, it was just one of many reamarks but I guess the one that made me rant was this one: "Zieg Heil, MotoGP Fuhrer Rossi!"


Wasn't it the referee you compared Dorna with. I think maybe Bud Light's role in Super ball make a better comparison ?
Oh yeah, I agree, it was a bit much.

Anyway, hey what's with the "Big Ball"? Hahaha. Dude, do you live in a cave or em I that American-centric that I can't believe you wouldn't know what the Super Bowl is? Wow, this really is a big world. Sorry for the laugh but I just thought the world knew what the Super Bowl is as much as the World Cup. Maybe not. (It almost sounds silly to me to explain it, but the Super Bowl is the final championship game in the NFL (National Football League). I'm talking about American football of course (as oppose to soccer). Yeah, I know, I don't need a lesson on the fact that you guys don't call it 'soccer'. Its a big deal here in the States, perhaps as epic as the World Cup is in Europe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 8 2008, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is generally safer to keep both hands on the handlebars mate, they help one staying on track
Yamaha were playing their game just like Honda and the others - the difference is only that at Honda they are bossy with their riders and impose them their decisions, at Yamaha they are kind of more benevolent and try to make everybody happy.

Competition among tyre suppliers? It is wonderful, assuming the ones who win that competition (i.e. develop the best tyres) are then ready to honour their name and SUPPLY those who come begging for their goods, without discrimination based on commercial contracts.
If that is not the case, - and it is not - then a control tyre is the lesser evil.

So you do not consider Rossi a born racer, uh? I wonder what a rider has to do to convince you! Ok J4rno, last time round, I'm getting dizzy here, aren't you? It's all fun though!

1. Of course they are, if you're 6 years old. What a soft cuddly world you live in, aahhhh.


2. Control tyre is a lesser evil if it enables a certain guy to win, isn't it? Take the fact that that the Italian has not won for two seasons out of your equation for a minute. Tell me how a control tyre doesn't go against everything motoGP is about. I'm dead against it. Bridgestone come into the sport and get their ..... kicked. But after a lot of hard work, they eventually make a tyre better than anyone else, to then face possible elimination from competition to appease one guy. Just because Michelin slept in and VR happens to be on Michelin tyres. Some reward for getting their heads down and turning themselves from zeroes to heroes in five years. It's a sad state of affairs. I know what you're going to say anyway, it's so predictable, that it's to make the racing closer, for the fans, please! Ezy has everyone brainwashed, all he wants to do is line his pockets, make Dorna more valuable, he's a ....... accountant! On one hand you have sport, on the other, you have commerce, this is important. The sport is between riders, manufacturers, and tyre companies and it all has a commercial spin for everyone involved. A control tyre is only the lesser evil because it would take the bad look off Rossi.....<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Jan 7 2008, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So, which is it? Valentino Rossi, The Doctor, the racing hero who throws his leg over the under-powered Yamaha and valiantly defeats the better-equipped opposition? Or Valentino Rossi the savvy businessman, the backroom dealer, the mover and shaker who has the deck stacked in his favor and can pressure Bridgestone to give him tires?So what is it, sport, or commerce? Why can so few see this for what it really is? BTW Thank you Mr.Supe, great post!


3. Of course I do, every guy on the grid is a born racer. It's just..."The man is a race animal" seemed a strange thing to say, fanatical rhetoric.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 9 2008, 05:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh yeah, I agree, it was a bit much.

Anyway, hey what's with the "Big Ball"? Hahaha. Dude, do you live in a cave or em I that American-centric that I can't believe you wouldn't know what the Super Bowl is? Wow, this really is a big world. Sorry for the laugh but I just thought the world knew what the Super Bowl is as much as the World Cup. Maybe not. (It almost sounds silly to me to explain it, but the Super Bowl is the final championship game in the NFL (National Football League). I'm talking about American football of course (as oppose to soccer). Yeah, I know, I don't need a lesson on the fact that you guys don't call it 'soccer'. Its a big deal here in the States, perhaps as epic as the World Cup is in Europe.

Did I get more than the name wrong?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 9 2008, 03:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You and Yamaka keep caning the idea that there is a coalition running the sport. The insiders, notably Noyes (he worked for Dorna), say otherwise.

Ezy calls the shots. He has the confidence of the FIM. It doesn't matter what you see in the sport's by-laws. I happen to trust Noyes' assessment because he claims he worked for DORNA during the early days when they were breaking the backs of the corrupt local and state promoters who were holding the sport back. He laments that DORNA is now the corrupt force compelling the madness of recent years. He's gone from indoctrinated to objective. It seems he sees things he can't avoid criticizing.

How convineinet to say Dorna are calling the shots. They have been the more active part during the last halv of 2007 and for all I know are in general the one comming up fith most suggestions but they are not running the game. There is the veto from the manufacturers and I find it strange you say FIM are in their pocket when Noyes him self said FIM woud vote against the single tire proposal.

That said. Sporting organizations are notoriously undemocratic. FIFA, FIA, AMA, Olympics..... They all have problems and scandals so I understand that part, I just thought you went a bit far hare and there.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 9 2008, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You and Yamaka keep caning the idea that there is a coalition running the sport. The insiders, notably Noyes (he worked for Dorna), say otherwise.

Ezy calls the shots. He has the confidence of the FIM. It doesn't matter what you see in the sport's by-laws. I happen to trust Noyes' assessment because he claims he worked for DORNA during the early days when they were breaking the backs of the corrupt local and state promoters who were holding the sport back. He laments that DORNA is now the corrupt force compelling the madness of recent years. He's gone from indoctrinated to objective. It seems he sees things he can't avoid criticizing.

Super Ball would make more sense.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The answer is that only the MSMA can stop a move to single tire. It works like this: When technical rules are involved the MSMA have extraordinary powers. An MSMA technical proposal with the full support of all members passes automatically. But if a technical proposal reaches the MSMA and all members vote no, the measure is stopped cold -- a virtual veto.

If, however, at least one member votes in favor of the proposal, the MSMA vote is registered as a simple no, but not a veto.

There are four voting powers in the Grand Prix Commission where these things are decided: Dorna, IRTA (Teams), MSMA, and the FIM. In case of a tie, Dorna casts the deciding vote.

And IRTA always supports Dorna so Dorna’s proposal for a single tire supplier already has two votes. Assuming the MSMA voted ‘no’ but with at least one factory supporting the single tire rule, that would be just a simple negative vote. If the FIM then voted no, the tie would be broken by Dorna.

In practice, however, the FIM would probably not oppose if the outcome was clear in advance, although new FIM President Vito Ippolito has publicly said that he opposes a single tire rule in Grand Prix racing, so the Venezuelan, who comes from a strong, hands-on racing background (his father, the Venezuelan Yamaha importer, took Johnny Cecotto and Carlos Lavado to the World GP series and Vito Ippolito himself managed Lavado’s team), just might weigh in on this even if the FIM lacks the power to block the rule.
That is what Noyes actually had to say on the subject. Doesn't quite match up with "Ezy calls the shots", does it.

full article here : LINK

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Jan 9 2008, 03:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That is what Noyes actually had to say on the subject. Doesn't quite match up with "Ezy calls the shots", does it.

full article here : LINK

Yes. Actually that does claim that Ezy calls the shots. The IRTA give Dorna the power to do whatever they want because every vote is a tie that Dorna gets to break. The MSMA are in competition with one another. There is rarely any technical regulation that won't benefit one manufacturer relative to the rest. If just Yamaha voted "yes" to a control tire, the measure would pass by virtue of the DORNA tiebreaker vote. The only reason a control tire wasn't introduced is because the fans had a tepid response and the sport can't afford another unpopular change that divides the fan base.

3 people could want a control tire and the measure would pass: Ezy, Mr. Yamaha, and the IRTA director (who is in Ezy's pocket). 3 people out of thousands who participate in the sport; 3 people out of tens with a legislative say. That's why Noyes calls the current Motogp by laws "DORNA democracy".

Noyes has also waxed on and on about how the historical pattern of the FIM is to hand control of the sport over to the promotion company until they feel they are losing control. Like I say, the MSMA are the only check on Dorna's power as long as DORNA have the backing of the FIM and the IRTA in their back pocket. Sadly, the MSMA would slit one another's throats if they thought it would give them a better chance to win---that is unless it becomes clear that DORNA will change the rules to keep a successful team from winning. That is the direction DORNA is headed so the MSMA may become more powerful in the near future.

Right now though, it is obvious Carmela is in control.

The only check on DORNA's power is our eyeballs, but DORNA will continue doing whatever they want as long as people walk around wearing their yellow tinted glasses.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 9 2008, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How convineinet to say Dorna are calling the shots. They have been the more active part during the last halv of 2007 and for all I know are in general the one comming up fith most suggestions but they are not running the game. There is the veto from the manufacturers and I find it strange you say FIM are in their pocket when Noyes him self said FIM woud vote against the single tire proposal.
I think you may have forgoten how it went down. Yes, you are correct that some voted the proposal down. But that's not how politics works. If you have the tie breaking vote, then you pretty much run the show. And that's what happened here; that is why Dorna had all the clout and muscle to make good on their threats that forced Bridgstone to cower and accept Rossi. So in a way (and that's what has been argued by me and others) that Donra was the strong arm of Rossi's will and demands.

I've read the following description in may articles ranging from different topics:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>"The Byzantine processes of MotoGP rule making is not easy to understand and the processes are not public knowledge, but some of this was revealed this past fall when Dorna was poised to propose a single tire rule proposal."


"This would have created a 2-2 tie among the deciders, but Dorna hold the power to cast the tiebreak vote." (from Speed TV)

So for all intents and purposes, YES Dorna is calling the shots.


How "convenient" that you haven't noticed this reality.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 9 2008, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So for all intents and purposes, YES Dorna is calling the shots.
How "convenient" that you haven't noticed this reality.I put a bag over my head to see if it made any difference but er no, Dorna do indeed call the shots. I had a fair idea the bag wouldn't work so I'm gonna try self-mummification over the weekend 'cos I've nothing else on, see if that works.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 9 2008, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think you may have forgoten how it went down. Yes, you are correct that some voted the proposal down. But that's not how politics works. If you have the tie breaking vote, then you pretty much run the show. And that's what happened here; that is why Dorna had all the clout and muscle to make good on their threats that forced Bridgstone to cower and accept Rossi. So in a way (and that's what has been argued by me and others) that Donra was the strong arm of Rossi's will and demands.

I've read the following description in may articles ranging from different topics:



So for all intents and purposes, YES Dorna is calling the shots.


How "convenient" that you haven't noticed this reality.
I called your bluff when you implied that FIM would follow Dorna. Add to that the veto right for a unified MSMA and Dorna can hardly do what they want regarding technical issues.
Besides we only have Noyes words for it when he claims IRTA allways follow Dorna, for some undisclosed reason.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 9 2008, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The only reason a control tire wasn't introduced is because the fans had a tepid response and the sport can't afford another unpopular change that divides the fan base.
So we are calling the shots?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The only check on DORNA's power is our eyeballs, but DORNA will continue doing whatever they want as long as people walk around wearing their yellow tinted glasses.
Humm, the fanbase stoped their proposal, how can they be wearing yellow glases?
Another one: I assume you put me well inside the group of people wearing yellow glases, how come I am against the control tire?

I sense an increasing paranoia and whole bunch of new conspiracy theories coming in the near future.
Can't wait to see the next one

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 9 2008, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I called your bluff when you implied that FIM would follow Dorna. Add to that the veto right for a unified MSMA and Dorna can hardly do what they want regarding technical issues.

Please explain. I don't understand when I was bluffing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 9 2008, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Besides we only have Noyes words for it when he claims IRTA allways follow Dorna, for some undisclosed reason.
You are implying that Noyes is not credible, why? However, its irrelevant anyway because we have other articles that explained the same thing, that is we have articles from other publications and other writers that described how Dorna has the deciding vote in the tire issue.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jan 9 2008, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok J4rno, last time round, I'm getting dizzy here, aren't you? It's all fun though!

1. Of course they are, if you're 6 years old. What a soft cuddly world you live in, aahhhh.


2. Control tyre is a lesser evil if it enables a certain guy to win, isn't it? Take the fact that that the Italian has not won for two seasons out of your equation for a minute. Tell me how a control tyre doesn't go against everything motoGP is about. I'm dead against it. Bridgestone come into the sport and get their ..... kicked. But after a lot of hard work, they eventually make a tyre better than anyone else, to then face possible elimination from competition to appease one guy. Just because Michelin slept in and VR happens to be on Michelin tyres. Some reward for getting their heads down and turning themselves from zeroes to heroes in five years. It's a sad state of affairs. I know what you're going to say anyway, it's so predictable, that it's to make the racing closer, for the fans, please! Ezy has everyone brainwashed, all he wants to do is line his pockets, make Dorna more valuable, he's a ....... accountant! On one hand you have sport, on the other, you have commerce, this is important. The sport is between riders, manufacturers, and tyre companies and it all has a commercial spin for everyone involved. A control tyre is only the lesser evil because it would take the bad look off Rossi.....So what is it, sport, or commerce? Why can so few see this for what it really is? BTW Thank you Mr.Supe, great post!


3. Of course I do, every guy on the grid is a born racer. It's just..."The man is a race animal" seemed a strange thing to say, fanatical rhetoric.

Ok ok, don't get dizzy Skid, I agree with you 100%

Rossi is the godfather of MotoGP and the source of all evils. He should just pay his taxes, restrain from desiring the rubber of other men, admit he is an utter failure and retire...

Bridgestone are pure and pious tyre suppliers, completely devoted to the noble ideal of technological advancement, unjustly coerced to sell their pure rubber to the mafia, whereas they would prefer to sell it to honest citizens only... But that horrible Rossi had to be appeased, or else...!

MotoGP is the purest prototype racing formula, which would be completely destroyed by a single tyre rule. Forget that this same rule has not destroyed F1, - but of course F1 is just a stock car series

And, of course, 'every' guy on the grid is a born racer... Some were born to race definitely faster than others though If I say Rossi is an animal born to race, well, I don't see any rhetoric in it, leave alone fanaticism. It is just a simple remark about his character as a rider (as he really enjoys the close fights on the track).

By the way, if you read my posts, you know that I have the highest appreciation for Stoner also. I look forward to the duels we are going to see in 2008, between these two 'animals', - mainly thanks to the fact that they'll be on the same rubber