Burgess defends Rossi's tyre move

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jan 6 2008, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No Rog old bean, I remember very well, but I do suspect you've got a selective memory.

The facts are, when all of this first started to happen, before the season ended, JB said that VR switching to Bridgestone wasn't the best move, that he was in favour of tackling the problems they had with Michelin. Going forward on that basis was, in his opinion, the best way for Fiat Yamaha to proceed. It was all over the web. Seemingly now, he has changed his opinion, see top of this thread. You must have forgotten too then that, Carmelo did indeed threaten that he would impose a control tyre, and that Rossi was in fact contracted to Michelin, proven by the fact that he was not permitted to ride on Bridgestone tyres at the post Valencia test due to his contratual obligations to Michelin. I hope I didn't forget anything
you sure did forget somthing mate. rossi is not and was not contracted to michilin for 08. he completed his michilin contract in full so i really cant see what the problem is. IF dorna yealed to any aledged threats buy rossi than thats there failing not rossi's. ANY poffessional sportsman will do ALL he can to get back on top. as for jb, that old aussie has gone senile, its not as if he is a stranger to shooting his gob off only to retract later.

so now that jb says rossi has done the right thing, do you still feel its wrong ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 7 2008, 06:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WHY and HOW he got the tyres he wanted is immaterial, as long as WHAT he got is NOT something unfair or that can give him a headstart.

This is the part you just aren't grasping.
The why and how is everything.
In your way of thinking his team could steal them from the back of a Bridgestone truck and that would be fine because he isn't getting an unfair advantage from the tyres.
Every rider MUST have exactly the same voice within the governing body regardless of status, fan base or past glories. It's called equality.
I find the fact that this is being continually glossed over mind boggling.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Jan 6 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is the part you just aren't grasping.
The why and how is everything.
In your way of thinking his team could steal them from the back of a Bridgestone truck and that would be fine because he isn't getting an unfair advantage from the tyres.
Every rider MUST have exactly the same voice within the governing body regardless of status, fan base or past glories. It's called equality.
I find the fact that this is being continually glossed over mind boggling.
i agree with this part, what i dont understand is why people like you use petty reasons like rossi switching tyres as leverage to slag him off at any given opitunity. it would have been dorna threatening bridgstone not rossi so if there's any blame to be layed point ya finger at them.
rossi said he would rather jack than ride another season on michilins, fair enough i say.
i didn't hear any of you complain when stoner changed bike and tyres when his contract was up, im sure he would rather jack than ride the lcr on michilins for another season. you say it's called equality, ummm equality as long as rossi is prevented from being competitive i think you mean !

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jan 6 2008, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>will this issue ever end??? would be funny if the stones were'nt the answer & he wanted to go back to michelin

No, it will never end because Rossi is going for the all time win record and I'm sure he'd love to eclipse Doohan and Ago for all time titles on the way.

Dorna want him to succeed because they want history to be made and they want a modern living-legend behind the sport. The history books and the MotoGP PR machine will tout Rossi's imminent achievement (the all time wins record) and conveniently gloss over the fact that he has received preferential treatment from the governing body (now more than ever). So long and short Rossi's achievements are like Bond's home run record

<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%

Stupid. Rossi probably could have done it without getting Ezy involved, but he's decided to politic his way into history. Terrible decision.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>[paraphrase]Rossi and Burgess switching to B-stone was the professional thing to do[/paraphrase]

I agree. Unfortunately for them, B-stone declined. Rossi went to the governing officials and tried to have B-stone thrown out.

Please remember the sequence of events.

1. Bridgestone appear to be the better rubber for 2008
2. Honda and Yamaha are turned down by B-stone
3. Ezy tries to make B-stone supply, but they refuse again. (1st tire meeting)
4. The idea of a control tire is floated to the public via a poll on Motogp.com (the poll was 50/50)
5. There is a release that suggests the control tire will be Michelin.
6. Both sides (Dorna & B-stone) realize they are going to take a raping if a Michelin control tire is introduced so they all cop out. Both Dorna & B-stone take a hit. Michelin emerges with a push. Rossi comes out smiling. (2nd tire meeting)

Dorna tried to make it appear that they were on some moral crusade for the sport, but when their cover was blown the true purpose behind the tire meetings was evident. Everything that was done in the tire meetings was done for the purpose of advancing Rossi's career.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 6 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you sure did forget somthing mate. rossi is not and was not contracted to michilin for 08. he completed his michilin contract in full so i really cant see what the problem is. IF dorna yealed to any aledged threats buy rossi than thats there failing not rossi's. ANY poffessional sportsman will do ALL he can to get back on top. as for jb, that old aussie has gone senile, its not as if he is a stranger to shooting his gob off only to retract later.

so now that jb says rossi has done the right thing, do you still feel its wrong ?That's another whole aspect of it, the panic at Dorna and the lack of leadership shown by Yamaha are both historic. The thing that gets me is the fact that Rossi tried it on, knowingly pushed all the right buttons. Would he have really walked? Of course he would.

Truth is, Carmelo is weak, he got played, and .... his pants. Yamaha should have told Rossi to .... off, who knows, maybe they did. The real joke is Rossi's lame attempt to boost morale at Yamaha, spouting he will run out his career at there. Of course he will.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jan 6 2008, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's another whole aspect of it, the panic at Dorna and the lack of leadership shown by Yamaha are both historic. The thing that gets me is the fact that Rossi tried it on, knowingly pushed all the right buttons. Would he have really walked? Of course he would.

Truth is, Carmelo is weak, he got played, and .... his pants. Yamaha should have told him to .... off, who knows, maybe they did. The real joke is Rossi's lame attempt to boost morale at Yamaha, spouting he will run out his career at there. Of course he will.
i think there a several riders who would "try it on" if they were in a possisition to do so, mabe some have in the past but it never really got reported. all this came out at a time when the media were baying for rossi's blood for one thing or another. there seems to be a real rossi hate campain going on lately which is what the media wanted ( read bikergirls posts from itali ) so i am very sceptical about what i read on the subject.

as for poor leadership in the yamaha camp, i have to agree with you there, the results proove this to me. as for dorna you may be right but i will wait and see how things pan out next season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jan 6 2008, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WHY and HOW he got the tyres he wanted is immaterial, as long as WHAT he got is NOT something unfair or that can give him a headstart.

And it isn't. Most riders already have that same rubber!

One could easily reverse your logic and call the impossibility to get the Bridgestones an 'unfair disadvantage'
Ah, now I see our problem. Ok. Perhaps you don't understand what is the job/mission of a governing body. Its kinda like a referee in a match. They are suppose to treat everybody the same, no matter the history of the player or team. So when a player uses his influence to threaten the referee, in this case Dorna, into taking up the cause of an individual player, even if its not to get better equipment, but just to serve his demands over the rest of the players asking the same thing, then yes, its a problem. This type of treatment is material and is not suppose to happen. Now if you don't think that's the job/mission of a governing body, then I can see that everything I've said must sound like gibberish--this is a pivotal point.

To understand integrity,you have to have integrity, and from what i keep reading,some dont understand the meaning of the word.

Main Entry: in·teg·ri·ty
Pronunciation: \in-ˈte-grə-tē\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English integrite, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French integrité, from Latin integritat-, integritas, from integr-, integer entire
Date: 14th century
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : incorruptibility
2 : an unimpaired condition : soundness
3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided : completeness
synonyms see honesty

Incorrupttibility is now out the window,make no mistake about it,Dorna has been corrupted,not neccesarily by Rossi, but by money and Rossi is the meal ticket.

Complete and undivided,that one is pretty much ...... also,just look at this forum

Honesty,well that ones a no brainer.They took an intelligent fan base and tried to blow smoke up their ... with that thinly veiled rule change threat that anyone with a brain could see thru.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 6 2008, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, now I see our problem. Ok. Perhaps you don't understand what is the job of a governing body. Its kinda like a referee in a match. They are suppose to treat everybody the same, not matter the history of the player or team. So when a player uses his influence to threaten the referee, in this case Dorna, into taking up the cause of an individual player, even if its not to get a better equipment, but just to make him more comfortable over the rest of the players asking the same thing, then yes, its a problem. This type of treatment is matterial and is not suppose to happen. Now if you don't think that's the job of a governing body, then I can see that everything I've said must sound like gibberish.
if you talking football lets say, the govening body is the FA (football association) not the ref. in motor sport it is the stewards who are the referee's. now if you look into govening bodys like dorna, the FA ect you will find there only interested in money.

lets not forget friends that motogp is a multi million £$ business and top riders are multi million £$ business men as well as sportsman but so are football players. money ends up corrupting all sports aventualy, live with it and enjoy it for what it is. dont analize just enjoy it for what its worth say. bit like meeting your hero's , you find out there a ...... and all you did was spoil it for yourself.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 6 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>if you talking football lets say, the govening body is the FA (football association) not the ref. in motor sport it is the stewards who are the referee's. now if you look into govening bodys like dorna, the FA ect you will find there only interested in money.

lets not forget friends that motogp is a multi million £$ business and top riders are multi million £$ business men as well as sportsman but so are football players. money ends up corrupting all sports aventualy, live with it and enjoy it for what it is. dont analize just enjoy it for what its worth say. bit like meeting your hero's , you find out there a ...... and all you did was spoil it for yourself.
Yes I know its not a perfect analogy, that's why I said "its kinda" to mean 'its similar', but not the same. I just wanted to make the point that the governing body is suppose to be neutral. That all, nothing more.

As far as your second point, well here is the problem, the dilemma. You, for example, like to praise all the accolades of your boy Rossi. Now if we are to accept that the system lacks integrity, then where does that leave all the "earned or not" accolades Rossi fans love to point out? Are we to put an asterisk and say, well this denotes a time when the mighty dollar was more important than the neutrality and integrity of the sport?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Jan 6 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is the part you just aren't grasping.
The why and how is everything.
In your way of thinking his team could steal them from the back of a Bridgestone truck and that would be fine because he isn't getting an unfair advantage from the tyres.
Every rider MUST have exactly the same voice within the governing body regardless of status, fan base or past glories. It's called equality.
I find the fact that this is being continually glossed over mind boggling.
Lord have mercy. Very well said. Any more questions?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 6 2008, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi went to the governing officials and tried to have B-stone thrown out.

Please remember the sequence of events.


Dorna tried to make it appear that they were on some moral crusade for the sport, but when their cover was blown the true purpose behind the tire meetings was evident. Everything that was done in the tire meetings was done for the purpose of advancing Rossi's career.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Jan 6 2008, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's another whole aspect of it, the panic at Dorna and the lack of leadership shown by Yamaha are both historic. The thing that gets me is the fact that Rossi tried it on, knowingly pushed all the right buttons. Would he have really walked? Of course he would.

Truth is, Carmelo is weak, he got played, and .... his pants. Yamaha should have told Rossi to .... off, who knows, maybe they did. The real joke is Rossi's lame attempt to boost morale at Yamaha, spouting he will run out his career at there. Of course he will.
Both culpable. (That means both are blame worthy).

I wonder what Max Biaggi, the ousted man, thinks of all this?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 6 2008, 03:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>in motor sport it is the stewards who are the referee's. now if you look into govening bodys like dorna, the FA ect you will find there only interested in money.

lets not forget friends that motogp is a multi million £$ business and top riders are multi million £$ business men as well as sportsman... money ends up corrupting all sports aventualy...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 6 2008, 11:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes I know its not a perfect analogy, that's why I said "its kinda" to mean 'its similar', but not the same. I just wanted to make the point that the governing body is suppose to be neutral. That all, nothing more.

As far as your second point, well here is the problem, the dilemma. You, for example, like to praise all the accolades of your boy Rossi. Now if we are to accept that the system lacks integrity, then where does that leave all the "earned or not" accolades Rossi fans love to point out? Are we to put an asterisk and say, well this denotes a time when the mighty dollar was more important than the neutrality and integrity of the sport?
as i said, money ruins all sport "eventually". luckely rossi earned all his accolades before this inevitibility happened.
look at F1 mate, do you really think motogp wont end up all about the money one day. its us lot here that truley love the sport not dorna , they love the dollar.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 6 2008, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>as i said, money ruins all sport "eventually". luckely rossi earned all his accolades before this inevitibility happened.
look at F1 mate, do you really think motogp wont end up all about the money one day. its us lot here that truley love the sport not dorna , they love the dollar.
Yup, and whom may the person pressuring the corruption be? Perhaps he's losing his touch, he managed to keep it underground before.


Ah, I'm glad Toseland is in MotoGP next year, at least he doesn't go around strong arming his way into championships. That's one Brit with integrity

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 6 2008, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really there is nothing left to dispel. I have addressed every single angle and point of debate on this very simple issue. As if J4rnO and the rest of you forgot the thread: Being Valentino Rossi... Well its right there, you can refresh your memory by clicking on it. You guys keep saying the same things, why can't you see you will get the same answers? Your argument and all those that agree are simply not listening. Why? It’s really simple. ...! How many times must it be shown to you that the ....... guy (Rossi) got preferential treatment? It doesn't matter if one tire is better or "perceived" to be better, that’s not the ....... point! What does matter is that several competitors requested the change and only ONE got it by virtue of a <u>skewed process</u> that favored Rossi.--which the entire world got to see when Dorna took on his cause to get him whatever he wanted at the expense of denying the same to others. The governing body is not suppose to play favorites, even if it’s Jesus Christ the Lord himself in the ....... racers grid. Do you understand why this is important in an equitable contest? (Obviously not from what I keep reading).

Well, as a matter of fact it was Bridgestone who gave Rossi the tires, not Dorna.
Could you please stop being so "holier than thow". The motor racing sport is the most "unfair" sport ever. It's all about getting what the others don't get. What make your crusade somewhat comic to me that this time it's about something others do have. So get down from your high horse and face the reality. I'm really sorry for you that your guy didn't get the same tire this time but stop pretending this is anything but business as usuall as i is in any motor sport. There are no such thing as a skewed process in this sport. It's about money, power and politics. If that was skewed whe could just as well discuss the Hayden vs Edwards seat at Repsol. I don't know what Honda US used to bend thir arm but it sure worked, eh?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Just put yourself in the shoes of the other competitors. What if YOU, yes YOU are the ....... guy wanting the same tires as the current champ (Casey) and YOU are denied that request while another guy gets his demand. (Considering that nobody else was suppose to get ...., which was made public when Bridgestone announced for the whole entire universe to know that they would NOT provide more of their tires.) What would be YOUR reaction?!? Would it be reasonable to say YOU were not given equal treatment and consideration? How can you ....... miss this point??? Are you going to sit there and say, well its cool, let the other guy get what he wants since he’s won so much in the past, and YOU are willing to accept second rate .... based on what is “perceived” to be the better product, even if its just a mental confidence thing? Holy Jesus, what the .... is the problem with you guys, yes all you guys (and some gals) not understanding this very simple and fundamental truth about authentic contests????
What's the big deal here? As a racer I did NOT recive the same tires as the top rider. Friends of mine in the german and scandinavian series are not reciving the same equipment as the preferred riders even when their results and history show them as clearly the better rider (but with the wrong connections.)

What do I say about it?
Shut the .... up or go for a fully regulated series where everybode use the same equipment.
BTW. You might think it's outrageous but I've a friend of mine got preferential treatment as he walked over to Pirelli together with a representative for the governing body to pick up WSS q and race tires. I was there and the place were Assen with the combined SBK/European championship. That's the way thing work now and allways has.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 6 2008, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So get down from your high horse and face the reality.
Ah, now I get it. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crazyc @ Jan 6 2008, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As you can tell I rarely post I normally just come here to read everyones thoughts on my favorite sport....but sometimes I really think some of you can't read. Since Junkies post are so long maybe you just get confused. Why are you even arguing the fact that Rossi isn't wrong for threatening to quite. I don't think no one is debating that. It might sound like he is being a little ..... but who cares...he can do/say what he wants. What junkie is saying and I agree with if its true is - If Dorna had anything to do with Rossi getting the Stones by threatening a Spec tire then that is preferential treatment plain and simple. Rossi can threaten to quit all he wants. Why the hell would bridgestone care if he did? Fact is they wouldn't. Who would lose if he quit? The Fans would and that equals to $$$ being lost. Who would lose such said money? Yamaha for sure, Rossi's Sponsors but overhaul Dorna would suffer the most. So I would say that I'm sure they had something to do with the Spec Tire threat. If so, yes it's wrong.

I say they should have called Ross's bluff or let him/yahmaha work it out with Bridgestone on his own. It paints a bad light on the sport. Besides do you really think he would have quit? To end your career with two losing seasons while giving up on your fans cause you didn't get your way......I don't think he would have done it.

I do have a question though... was it Dorna that threatened the Spec tire or the FIM? I'm sure Dorna has some influence but they can't just change the rules on their own, right?

A good post there Crazyc. I agree in most of what you say, but Jumkie has far to many grudges against Rossi, and they shine so clearly through his posts and thats why most of the Rossi fans react. Also he is "on the other side" where others, only in this tread has been "Hitling" the tread, attacking people for being gay, frequently using fan boy and any other insults they can think of. So, all in all it's very hard to agree with anything from anyone from that "camp". And as you said ( and I've said a couple of times before) ; if Dorna used the single tire proposal to blackmail Bridgestone it doesn't smell right. But they do apply pressure at places when it gain their comercial goals. They pressure teams to take on Riders from different nationalities(and i'm NOT talking about Italian and Spanish riders, they do well by them selves), they give preferantial treatment to teams with bad economy, they give new tire supliers preferential treatment and so on. In light of that I don't doubt that pressure was applied, the question is; was it blackmail or their usuall politics?
And as you said do they have that power?

Slightly off topic:
The "governing body" thing is very vague to me. What are their reponsebilities except selling and making moeny on distibution-rights?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jan 7 2008, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, now I get it. Thanks for clarifying it for me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jan 6 2008, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What do I say about it?
Shut the .... up or go for a fully regulated series where everybode use the same equipment.



Now go tell that to Rossi.

You can't because you're a Rossi fanboy which is the same defect Rog seems to have. Your logic and nihilistic tendencies are somewhat sound, but they are miserably misapplied.

Nobody cares that Rossi gets preferential treatment. People care that Rossi gets preferential treatment from Dorna/FIM.

You're right. Rossi just needed to shut the .... up and go ride in a fully regulated series.

Too bad. Rossi was great.

Oh well, I guess I need to face the fully scripted reality of it all.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jan 7 2008, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

Now go tell that to Rossi.

You can't because you're a Rossi fanboy which is the same defect Rog seems to have. Your logic and nihilistic tendencies are somewhat sound, but they are miserably misapplied.

Nobody cares that Rossi gets preferential treatment. People care that Rossi gets preferential treatment from Dorna/FIM.

You're right. Rossi just needed to shut the .... up and go ride in a fully regulated series.

Too bad. Rossi was great.
im a realist and support most riders on the grid so i suppose im a motogp fanboy i support rossi for his brilliant riding and focus not his persona, i would imagine he is a very single minded person in real life, all greats are !

if you want to be a winner, use all the ammo in your arsenal, if you dont, what the .... are you doing at that level ?

your posts get more and more Insightful lex