Brno Race Discussion

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 17 2009, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Read what was typed - who mentioned rules?

Kallio believed that he was in the right whereas MM was in the wrong - simple. So, Kallio reacts - simple, nowhere are rules mentioned.

As regards to if you hit from behind you are at fault what are your thoughts of the infamous Jerez Rossi/Gibbers incident? Who was at fault there?

Garry

I know you didn't mentioned any rules but you didn't get my point as well what i am trying to say that there was no reason for Kallio to believe that it was MM fault when he clearly hit him from the behind.

And as i said in my previous post that i don't have any problem with the incident itself it was just Kallio's reaction which i was bit disappionted.

And i have same opinion about Jerez Rossi/Gibbers incident as well.I have no problem with the incident but definately that was very hard pass by Rossi and if you really want to blame some one in that incident it has to be Rossi and by the way Rossi hit Gibbers from the side not from the back.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Aug 16 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>FWIW, Kallio also ran into the back of Hayden this year.
Finally. Geez i was trying to b subtle. Hahaha.

That "blind spot" is a MF.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Aug 17 2009, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know you didn't mentioned any rules but you didn't get my point as well what i am trying to say that there was no reason for Kallio to believe that it was MM fault when he clearly hit him from the behind.


Nope, I knew your point as I have seen it happen many times at various race meetings (unfortunately I then often have to pickup the pieces), so know that the 'accepted rule' is that if you hit from behind you are well at fault. But, the riders do not see it this way as they often look for excuses ranging from line changes, traction, speed differentials, brake checks etc - they just look for 'excuses' which to them are not excuses at all but explanations or facts.

See, to me (and this case is not in question) a rider can setup to pass another all they want, but if that leading rider suddenly changes lines etc, there may be the inevitable collision which was unavoidable for the following rider. To me, in this instance the most striking aspect is the vastly different corner speeds which is bought about by the different lines and it is these contributing factors that are at play.

As for the puch/shove as I have said elsewhere, to me nothing in it other than a rider frustrated at having been bougyht down by another who they feel at fault (same as Spies/Fabrizio when Fab tried to apologise), no harm.






Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Aug 17 2009, 02:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Finally. Geez i was trying to b subtle. Hahaha.

That "blind spot" is a MF.


Since when have you been subtle?





Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Aug 17 2009, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for the push/shove as I have said elsewhere, to me nothing in it other than a rider frustrated at having been bought down by another who they feel at fault (same as Spies/Fabrizio when Fab tried to apologise), no harm.

Gaz

Hey Gaz

How are you?

I'm with you on the pushing thing.
In fact I love it. It shows passion and heart. So long as it stays as a little push shove and doesn't break into fisty cuffs. Although, I'd love to see a couple of riders box on, for the laughs only!!!
The push had nothing in it.

I think the speed differential thing probably has something to do with this incident, but surely, these guys are pros, not "ride day" specialists. So they should be able to account for the speed difference, they do this (coming up on slower bikes, accounting for the speed differential) during practise and qualifying, don't they??

Anyway, I enjoyed the race.

Cheers

Marco was on a tear. He was doing low 1:58s the last 1/3 of the race while Kallio started doing high 1:58s. Prior to that they were pretty even with respect to laptimes (both were doing low 1:58s). Kallio's last lap he did a low 1:58 probably feeling pressure from Marco and stepped up his pace. He rode past his limit and instead of conceding the spot (reference Valentino with 6 to go), he ran straight up the back of Melandri and took them both out of the race.

I don't know what's up with the BBC boys, but (1) they spend an entire lap talking about Rossi and Lorenzo's sector times when Dovi and Elias are on screen battling it out (even more frustrating was that they didn't actually give us, the viewers, the sector times, they just kept saying "oh Lorenzo's catching up!", or "look at those times!" even though we can't see the splits like they do). Then just before the camera cuts back to Rossi/Lorenzo, they mention that Dovi and Elias just crossed the line, (2) they tried to say that Melandri was partially at fault for the crash "6 of 1, half dozen the other" when the replays made it pretty obvious Kallio just speared Melandri. The Eurosport boys didn't make this obvious error, and (3), in the post race stuff, Parrish says that "yeah, Rossi would like to get a win at Indy because it's one of the circuits on the calendar he's never won at." ???

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Aug 17 2009, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kallio's last lap he did a low 1:58 probably feeling pressure from Marco and stepped up his pace.

He closed in on Edwards and Hayden. Kallio was planning to have a go at them. I doubt he was thinking about Melandri, just 6th place! Compare Kallio's times to edwards just before crash. He was certainly not looking back and that was obviously the problem.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Aug 16 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Excuse me if I said it: Lorenzo is too aggressive and lacks racing intelligence.

Give us Stoner back!


Lorenzo gets too damn excited on the track everytime he over takes Rossi. Im trying so hard to not turn into a Rossi fan. But after Brno, all I can say is Rossi is damn King! Sucks to always be rooting for the best but when you put that man in a battle, on man. The best part is he ..... slaps and teaches Lorenzo a lesson everytime that kid tries to get out of line.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J708 @ Aug 17 2009, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lorenzo gets too damn excited on the track everytime he over takes Rossi. Im trying so hard to not turn into a Rossi fan. But after Brno, all I can say is Rossi is damn King! Sucks to always be rooting for the best but when you put that man in a battle, on man. The best part is he ..... slaps and teaches Lorenzo a lesson everytime that kid tries to get out of line.

That is very funny. But kinda true.
Rossi has an answer to almost everything anyone throws at him.
(102 wins & 8 Championships confirms this)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Translation:
"I was on the correct and fastest line until I got hit hard on the right side. I didn't have time to see anything at all before the impact. Sure, it was one of the best corners to overtake but such an experienced rider should know that you can't just risk it all and dive in like that. It was a racing incident but I couldn't have done anything to prevent the crash because it came out of nowhere."

Huh, weird... fastest line behind someone.. maybe.. uhh.. slow down or go around? In fact by the looks of it he could've gone around melandri no problem.. note the ol' "I got hit hard from the right".. looks like dorna had their own photoshop contest live and swapped angles/riders on us..

Btw you gotta love Elias' comment in the press conf, something along the lines of "funny how i get podiums every year and every year, no bike.. other riders.. no podiums.. they have bike every year".. good stuff..

Kallio & Melandri - racing incident no doubt... Kallio's fault - undeniable.

Where are all the "Lorenzo's in Rossi's head" preachers from earlier this year?

can't find anything else on this.?

As was exclusively revealed on visordown.com a month ago, Spies is believed to have had a clause in his Yamaha contract that said that if Jorge Lorenzo did leave Yamaha then he was assured of the ‘satellite’ ride in MotoGP, albeit on pukka factory kit in a privateer’s colours.

Since Lorenzo is know staying at Yamaha, it sounds as if Spies will remain in WSB for 2010.

http://www.powerslide.net/forum/index.php?...c=10911&hl=

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (truent @ Aug 17 2009, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Huh, weird... fastest line behind someone.. maybe.. uhh.. slow down or go around? In fact by the looks of it he could've gone around melandri no problem.. note the ol' "I got hit hard from the right".. looks like dorna had their own photoshop contest live and swapped angles/riders on us..

Btw you gotta love Elias' comment in the press conf, something along the lines of "funny how i get podiums every year and every year, no bike.. other riders.. no podiums.. they have bike every year".. good stuff..


I just love comments like these: "In fact by the looks of it he could've gone around melandri no problem..".
If you think it's that easy you should go do some racing and show everyone how it's done.

Kallio did take the fastest line, MM just went on the brakes later and dove in but was a lot slower through the corner which contributed to the crash. Notice the speed difference mid corner and when Mika gets on the throttle accelerating out. If Mika had been able to go around MM without getting off the throttle MM would've been left in the dust coming out of it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 17 2009, 09:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Where are all the "Lorenzo's in Rossi's head" preachers from earlier this year?

The #1 preacher of that "theory" were the (to me) unmentionable P?nky I belive.
He were wrong on this one too, surprise? Think not.

Anyway, doesn't this start to look like another Biaggi/Gibernau thing?

I was going to add Pedrosa but although he challenge Rossi he never does so when Rossi is anywhere near him so although he crash a lot too it's not really the same.

It is indeed sad for the sport to see how many Biaggi/Gibernau/Stoner/ and now Lorenzo fans turn out to actually be just Rossi-haters, ready to jump on the bandwagon of anybody who could remotely promise to beat the hated 'doctor'.

And ready to leave the 'chosen' rider to his destiny when he fails to deliver his promise...

Likes and dislikes are human and permissible of course (I do not hesitate to say I dislike Lorenzo, for isntance, just as I disliked Biaggi before him) but this should never become the dominant factor. I do not dislike them because they challenge Rossi, but only because of their flawed character-- the proof is I appreciated Stoner a lot for not only challenging, but for actually beating Rossi fair and square in 2007.

I try at the same time to remain objective when judging the skills and shortcomings of all riders. I think I am not blinded by my dislike, and not that far from the truth when I say (I said it long before Lorenzo's autogoal in Brno) that Jorge is too Ramboish, and that it is his own hubris and lack of tactical intelligence that actually prevents him from giving Rossi a real run for his money.

Amen.

Good race IMO,

Just something i have noticed. Firstly MM and Kalios crash is just racing incident, ( he was lucky not have his hand in the wheel of kawa if you look at the reply!!!!!

Secondly as for Lorenzo and Rossi, It was about this time last year when Stoner was feeling the pressure form rossi and was loosing the front end in all those corners, now Lorenzo has the front end problem Donnington Bruno, wheres the next crash coming from. Just a Theroy and a bit of a stir.

Semi-boring race. Rossi rode a great race though. He did the right thing just sticking to Lorenzo after he got by, because let's face it, there's a pretty big chance that Lorenzo will break if Rossi puts pressure from behind (damn, that sounded gay ). But seriously, I said it early in the season, Lorenzo hasn't got the consistency, and being beat again and again will undoubtedly affect is confidence. I would be very surprised if Rossi did not take the championship again this year. He seems very strong at the moment.

RE the MK v MM crash.

its dornas fault!

if they had given hayate a bit more money, then they could have painted the bike kawa green instead of dull boring black. i bet kallio would have seen a green kawasaki in his way much sooner.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Aug 17 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I try at the same time to remain objective when judging the skills and shortcomings of all riders. I think I am not blinded by my dislike, and not that far from the truth when I say (I said it long before Lorenzo's autogoal in Brno) that Jorge is too Ramboish, and that it is his own hubris and lack of tactical intelligence that actually prevents him from giving Rossi a real run for his money.

Amen. The word you are looking for is aggressive, & I agree. I'm wondering now if he was wearing the airbag suit or if it was just a touch of...



Similarly to '08, Brno wasn't a race but you can't beat it for drama.

Good race until Lorenzo went down and turned into the StayPuft marshmellow man, cool to see those airbags in the leathers work. Rossi's championship to loose now, he's the man.
I see all this chatting about Melandri and Kallio, but no mention of the Capi's performance. Has Suzuki stepped it up or was this a fluke ride by Capi?
On to Indy!