Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Did you mean Second City from Chicago? If there's one in Canada, it's got to be a Chinese knockoff.
If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
Joined Nov 2015
872 Posts | 420+
Stratosphere
Nah Bro, they're like co-alumni. Second City Toronto is no knock-off. They started in 1973. Dan Akroyd, Brian Doyle Murray and Gilda Radner, to name a few, got their start there.
Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Joined Jun 2008
1K Posts | 365+
USA
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Well, according to wiki, Second City started in Chicago in 1959.
But that's cool you guys got a knockoff in Toronto.
Apparently there's one in LA, which I didn’t know.
If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
If you dont think these guys are gagged, listen to Bradley Smith's answer
From Krop
Q: Do you think these front tires were dangerous?
BS: I mean, it doesn't look good. But I didn't have any idea that it was coming, and nothing blew up.
It happened all of a sudden, but hey, nothing blew up.
That reminds me of the journo joke "Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the show.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
We learn something every day. I never knew Canadians and Povols had a sense of humor
There is that too of course, particularly for Ducati of all the manufacturers.
As you correctly say, they have been consistently screwed over tyre-wise for nearly a decade now, perhaps even semi-deliberately in 2008 with the control tyre rule and the lead-up to the imposition of that rule. As we both recall, they wanted to start from scratch with Michelin then rather than go to a Bridgestone control tyre despite Bridgestone being their existing supplier.
Joined Jul 2011
1K Posts | 872+
Dont Know
Good quotes, I must admit, of all the Brit riders I like bradders the most. He gets on with the job and does often give honest opinions when quizzed. Obviously there is always times when he has to tow the party line, but he was one of the few who dared to step out of the shadows last year following Rossis behaviour at Sepang and criticise it.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Agree. He was also very outspoken against the hypocrisy surrounding Luis Salom's accident in terms of the non attendance of the rider safety meetings.
Read the Michelin guy's explanation on motomutters now. He claims there was no actual safety issue, which to be fair no rider has really raised either.
I have to say I still think it is unacceptable for a tyre to fail in this way, particularly when Dovi's did, at a time when as someone in the comments about the article said even an intermediate let alone a slick was not a viable option.
I don't think many of even the most vehement among us were alleging conspiracy. It was still clearly a stuff-up imo though, and as Jumkie says it more than stretches the limits of credibility that Michelin had any anticipation of the tyres failing in the manner they did. I will concede that while it was an unprecedented occurrence, the circumstances were also unprecedented, for Michelin as a control tye supplier to premier class GP bike racing anyway. If Bridgestone tested the durability of their wet tyres rather more thoroughly, they clearly didn't with the "dry" tyre they brought to PI 2013, although this was addressed by a rather strongly enforced mandatory mid race tyre change, which as Jumkie says is what should have happened at Brno if Michelin really did think delamination was in prospect.
My continuing doubt is as to whether Dorna are instructing Michelin to do other than produce the best tyres they can to suit the widest range of conditions and competitors, not necessarily to conspire in favour of a particular rider, more because of the wacky notions Uncle Carmelo has had at times in regard to how racing could be "improved".
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Agree there might be an objective to mix up the results a bit by making the tyres to do so. For purist, it spoils the racing as the best rider and team should win without being massively affected by the rubber in a control tyre series.
F1 has lost loads of fans since the Pirelli era began because of that reason. It is all about the tyres, I hope MotoGP doesn't suffer the same fait.
Michelin aren't going to come out and say there is a problem when there clearly is. Their reputation is the greatest factor in selling tyres.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
I told you guys the real opinions and answers from the riders are not forthcoming because of Dorna's penalty gag order and ability to claim a rider is bringing the sport into disrepute by criticizing anything.
These tires are out and out ...., and always have been.
Sadly Kropo has been towing the DORNA company line like the riders when he acted as Goubert's messenger in his post-race write-up. I bet if he writes an analysis of the quotes he will just say, "No rider explicitly stated they felt the Michelin tires are a problem. So from this we can surmise it was a problem with how the teams used the tires, and the smart play would have been to use the hard front."
These tires are out and out ...., and always have been.
Sadly Kropo has been towing the DORNA company line like the riders when he acted as Goubert's messenger in his post-race write-up. I bet if he writes an analysis of the quotes he will just say, "No rider explicitly stated they felt the Michelin tires are a problem. So from this we can surmise it was a problem with how the teams used the tires, and the smart play would have been to use the hard front."
As you keep correctly saying their front tyre in various varieties has been consistently problematic, with unexplained washouts for various riders with their basic tyres from the get go in their control tyre incarnation regardless of current issues with the wet tyre, and the front wasn't flash last time around either. And sure their spokesman is unlikely to admit a tyre is unsafe as long as he has plausible deniability with nobody actually crashing.
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Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
"Marc Márquez – Repsol Honda Rider
Q: Think about safety of front tire in the race?
MM: In the end yesterday the conditions were very, very critical. Because there was not a lot of water but then takes time to dry and already honestly the Michelin guys push to me for example to go to the hard. Because they say the soft will not finish the race if it like this with this water and they know. But the problem is one tire was extra soft and then one tire hard. The problem here is we didn't have enough time to try the hard [before the race], so people go to the soft, but the best option was the hard. We had the tire to finish the race, but the thing is nearly everybody choose the soft front and then the soft was extra-soft. They already told me before the race, 'please try to manage the front because it will be on the limit to finish the race'.
Q: What did your tire look like at end?
MM: They look of course… My one looks only graining, because also I was trying to take care of the tire.
Q: How do you do that?
MM: For example, with ten laps remaining there was a dry line. So I was not using the dry line. I was always out of the dry line for try to manage. Yeah on the dry line you were able to be fast, but there were still ten laps. So I tried to manage and then the last four laps I was using the dry line. For that reason also I improved my lap times.
But for me it was more a mistake from the teams, also because we didn't have time to try the hard and nobody want to take the risk and try the hard. But already the Michelin guys say the extra soft will be at the limit."
From MotoMatters
Q: Think about safety of front tire in the race?
MM: In the end yesterday the conditions were very, very critical. Because there was not a lot of water but then takes time to dry and already honestly the Michelin guys push to me for example to go to the hard. Because they say the soft will not finish the race if it like this with this water and they know. But the problem is one tire was extra soft and then one tire hard. The problem here is we didn't have enough time to try the hard [before the race], so people go to the soft, but the best option was the hard. We had the tire to finish the race, but the thing is nearly everybody choose the soft front and then the soft was extra-soft. They already told me before the race, 'please try to manage the front because it will be on the limit to finish the race'.
Q: What did your tire look like at end?
MM: They look of course… My one looks only graining, because also I was trying to take care of the tire.
Q: How do you do that?
MM: For example, with ten laps remaining there was a dry line. So I was not using the dry line. I was always out of the dry line for try to manage. Yeah on the dry line you were able to be fast, but there were still ten laps. So I tried to manage and then the last four laps I was using the dry line. For that reason also I improved my lap times.
But for me it was more a mistake from the teams, also because we didn't have time to try the hard and nobody want to take the risk and try the hard. But already the Michelin guys say the extra soft will be at the limit."
From MotoMatters
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Stoner explained it that at roughly 45 degrees of lean, the front tire (slicks) has what amounts to a dead spot that a rider will lose all feel for the bike in that moment hence the washouts. I cannot understand how it is a top tier tire manufacturer is getting away with this. Imagine that if your road bike's tire had a dead spot at 15 or 20 degrees? Holy ..... Would you knowingly ride that bike with said tire? I sure as .... wouldn't if I know doing so puts me at a chance to go down on the street.
That this is just continuing on with no remedy in sight is terrifying from a rider safety perspective. It's reasonably safe to say that based on what Smith said, there are definitely grumblings to be had from riders out there. It also begs the question of what the hell was Michelin testing all of last year? This isn't like the 800 to 1000 formula switch where having a test bike was not going to be possible. They had test bikes! And this is the best they could come up with?
